I would like to discuss the details of the feeding of 4000 and 5000 people by Jesus. In particular, I have a hard time reconciling the account of the feeding of the 4000 and 5000 people by Christ (Mat. 14:13-21, Mat 15:32-39.) with the explanation that our Lord gives in Mat. 16:5-12.
Feeding of 4000 people and 5000 people by Christ
- Thread starter Mike Etemadi
- Start date
- Status
Hi, Mike.
Maybe as a starting point, you could post some of the specific questions.
Just to give us a context to operate in:
Regarding the structure of Matthew, Matthew is presenting evidence that Jesus is the Messiah (Christ). He uses five major sections to demonstrate this; each section begins with deeds of the Messiah, followed by the words of the Messiah that relate to those deeds. Each major section ends with the phrase "and when Jesus had finished..." (or very similar - 7:28; 11:1; 13:53; 19:1; 26:1).
The present section is the fourth that deals with the new Messianic people (13:54 - 19:1).
Deeds 13:54-17:27
showing two things: separation from Judaism (withdrawing) and communion with his followers
Words: 18:1-19:1
showing the "rules" for the new ekklesia ("church")
Maybe as a starting point, you could post some of the specific questions.
Just to give us a context to operate in:
Regarding the structure of Matthew, Matthew is presenting evidence that Jesus is the Messiah (Christ). He uses five major sections to demonstrate this; each section begins with deeds of the Messiah, followed by the words of the Messiah that relate to those deeds. Each major section ends with the phrase "and when Jesus had finished..." (or very similar - 7:28; 11:1; 13:53; 19:1; 26:1).
The present section is the fourth that deals with the new Messianic people (13:54 - 19:1).
Deeds 13:54-17:27
showing two things: separation from Judaism (withdrawing) and communion with his followers
Words: 18:1-19:1
showing the "rules" for the new ekklesia ("church")
Upvote
0
I had always understood and believed that the feeding of 5000 and 4000 was a miracle. But I do have a hard time reconciling it with the explanation that the Lord gives in Mathew 16: (By the way the quotes are from NIV)
5When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6"Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
7They discussed this among themselves and said, "It is because we didn't bring any bread."
8Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, "You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9Do you still not understand? Don't you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11How is it you don't understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." 12Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Here Christ admonishes the disciples for not understanding what He was telling them regarding having no bread:
"You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9Do you still not understand?
And He admonishes them further and reminds them:
Don't you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
And He further tells them, "11How is it you don't understand that I was not talking to you about bread? "
That is if the disciples had remembered correctly, they would have understood that He is not talking to them about physical bread. So what type of bread was fed to the multitudes? Physical bread or the BREAD OF LIFE? If it was physical bread, they would have understood that the Lord was talking to them about physical bread. But Christ tells them to the contrary. Besides, it is the bread of life which is inexhaustible and why our Lord emphasizes that basketfuls were gathered. Indeed this BREAD OF LIFE will not be exhausted no matter how many millions and billions come to eat of it.
In the account of the feeding, it is mentioned that the Lord also taught them the Word of God (Mark 6:34 When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things.). So I figured that there are two events mentioned: 1. Teaching the multitudes 2. Feeding the multitudes. Yet in His explanation, the Lord chooses to use "the feeding of the multitudes" to remind the disciples of the meaning of bread. Why? He refers to the feeding and not to the teaching? Why?
Now in all honesty, how can I take the episode of the feeding as literal, where the Lord would rebuke me for remembering it as such?
Now, If the explanation of the Lord were not recorded, I would have accepted this as a physical miracle and that would be the end of it without any further insight into it. How would you have understood it if the explanation were not there?
With regard to the feeding of 4000 or 5000, which is a greater miracle? To feed them for one day and send them home or to give them eternal life by feeding them the BREAD OF LIFE? What is your opinion in this regard? Which miracle is greater?
Is it possible in your estimation that certain accounts/stories in the Bible were meant to be parables without having been stated as such by the author?
How wonderfully He wraps it up Himself:
John 6
51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
God bless,
Mike
5When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6"Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
7They discussed this among themselves and said, "It is because we didn't bring any bread."
8Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, "You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9Do you still not understand? Don't you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11How is it you don't understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." 12Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Here Christ admonishes the disciples for not understanding what He was telling them regarding having no bread:
"You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9Do you still not understand?
And He admonishes them further and reminds them:
Don't you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
And He further tells them, "11How is it you don't understand that I was not talking to you about bread? "
That is if the disciples had remembered correctly, they would have understood that He is not talking to them about physical bread. So what type of bread was fed to the multitudes? Physical bread or the BREAD OF LIFE? If it was physical bread, they would have understood that the Lord was talking to them about physical bread. But Christ tells them to the contrary. Besides, it is the bread of life which is inexhaustible and why our Lord emphasizes that basketfuls were gathered. Indeed this BREAD OF LIFE will not be exhausted no matter how many millions and billions come to eat of it.
In the account of the feeding, it is mentioned that the Lord also taught them the Word of God (Mark 6:34 When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things.). So I figured that there are two events mentioned: 1. Teaching the multitudes 2. Feeding the multitudes. Yet in His explanation, the Lord chooses to use "the feeding of the multitudes" to remind the disciples of the meaning of bread. Why? He refers to the feeding and not to the teaching? Why?
Now in all honesty, how can I take the episode of the feeding as literal, where the Lord would rebuke me for remembering it as such?
Now, If the explanation of the Lord were not recorded, I would have accepted this as a physical miracle and that would be the end of it without any further insight into it. How would you have understood it if the explanation were not there?
With regard to the feeding of 4000 or 5000, which is a greater miracle? To feed them for one day and send them home or to give them eternal life by feeding them the BREAD OF LIFE? What is your opinion in this regard? Which miracle is greater?
Is it possible in your estimation that certain accounts/stories in the Bible were meant to be parables without having been stated as such by the author?
How wonderfully He wraps it up Himself:
John 6
51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
God bless,
Mike
Upvote
0
I don't think Jesus is reprimanding the disciples because they thought the miracle was physical. Rather, the miracle was truly a miracle (or rather as Matthew uses term "deeds" or "mighty deeds"), that the bread was truly and miraculously given to feed the multitudes - in both cases.
However, in Matthew's Gospel, the repeated emphasis is not what a "good first century Jew" would observe about what Jesus did, but rather the revelation of what Jesus did that demonstrates that Jesus is the Messiah, the King of the Jews. Thus, to see the miracle of feeding the 4,000 and 5,000 as "only miracle" misses the point of what is going on. Jesus ushers in the new Kingdom, and in order for one to see and participate in that new kingdom requires that the person receive insight (revelation) into the significance of what is happening. The Pharisees would look at the miracle and be amaze - but walk away in unbelief. In fact, they would even claim that Jesus was doing these "deeds" by the power of the ruler of the demons (Matt. 9:34).
However, in Matthew's Gospel, the repeated emphasis is not what a "good first century Jew" would observe about what Jesus did, but rather the revelation of what Jesus did that demonstrates that Jesus is the Messiah, the King of the Jews. Thus, to see the miracle of feeding the 4,000 and 5,000 as "only miracle" misses the point of what is going on. Jesus ushers in the new Kingdom, and in order for one to see and participate in that new kingdom requires that the person receive insight (revelation) into the significance of what is happening. The Pharisees would look at the miracle and be amaze - but walk away in unbelief. In fact, they would even claim that Jesus was doing these "deeds" by the power of the ruler of the demons (Matt. 9:34).
Upvote
0
I think Jesus was pointing out to them that they have already seen what he can do to feed the multitudes, so why are they even worried about it, if he did it before he can do it again. So because of that they should have known that he wasn't talking about them forgetting to bring bread, He was simply warning them not to follow the teaching of others.
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
