America’s Stunning Embrace Of Paganism Signals The End Of This Country As We Know It

[Bradskii]

The sky is falling!
No. It's actually not.
Well, I'm leaving. I'm not going to stay here if you're simply going to disagree.

 

[AlexB23]

The sky is falling!
No. It's actually not.
Well, I'm leaving. I'm not going to stay here if you're simply going to disagree.

The Federalist seems like the type of newspaper that says the eclipse was caused by aliens or something, and that the world would end in 2024. Hence, why I stay far away from clickbaity articles.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There is a reason why Christianity is the Gold Standard of civilization. There is a reason why America was built on a Christian foundation. Be careful, very careful what you choose and why.

This. This right here, that's the problem.

Read the New Testament, where did Jesus or the Apostles talk about doing civilization? Where do they talk about a religious ethno-state?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hans Blaster]

The Federalist seems like the type of newspaper that says the eclipse was caused by aliens or something, and that the world would end in 2024. Hence, why I stay far away from clickbaity articles.

I'm not quite sure what their thing is, but a quick perusal indicates that they at least flirt with all of the nastiest edges of the American right (Christian nationalism, authoritarianism, xenophobia/nativism, etc.). It's weird, because they took their name from the title of the most famous intellectual discourse on the Constitution.

 

[Hazelelponi]

If the Lord ever were here

If you do decide to stay, I just want to point out that this is one of the better forums that has a mixture of faith group and non faith groups actively posting.

Most of the people who you noticed posting aren't necessarily Christian. This particular section is open to anyone who likes to participate without qualification.

People will mock your faith, sometimes if you're honest you can even understand why, if you can recall your worldview prior to becoming saved yourself.

But it's part and parcel of life really. For most Americans this forum is like walking out the front door of your house. It provides us opportunities for discussion that might not exist elsewhere.

 

[Whyayeman]

There is a reason why Christianity is the Gold Standard of civilization.

I should like to know what the Gold Standard of civilisation might be. Could it be America?

Which brand of Christianity sets this standard?

 

[Estrid]

The future of the post-Christian West isn’t some secular liberal utopia, it’s a pagan empire in which might makes right.
[from the OP citation]

It is true that there is a well established, long-term decline in church-going in America and here in the UK too. That is not a sign of a resurgence of paganism but rather evidence of a decline in belief in the supernatural.

Frankly, to me the tolerance in society of people other than the stereotypical heterosexual is a sign of moral progress.

" Stunning" means " vaguely perceptible if
you squint just right"

 

[Estrid]

If you do decide to stay, I just want to point out that this is one of the better forums that has a mixture of faith group and non faith groups actively posting.

Most of the people who you noticed posting aren't necessarily Christian. This particular section is open to anyone who likes to participate without qualification.

People will mock your faith, sometimes if you're honest you can even understand why, if you can recall your worldview prior to becoming saved yourself.

But it's part and parcel of life really. For most Americans this forum is like walking out the front door of your house. It provides us opportunities for discussion that might not exist elsewhere.

" Mock your faith".

Are you sure? Is that in the christians only
zone?

 

[AlexB23]

I'm not quite sure what their thing is, but a quick perusal indicates that they at least flirt with all of the nastiest edges of the American right (Christian nationalism, authoritarianism, xenophobia/nativism, etc.). It's weird, because they took their name from the title of the most famous intellectual discourse on the Constitution.

Agreed 100% man. Kinda ironic that a paper with the name of "Federalist" supports unconstitutional measures. I am fed up with the right in the USA (I am pro-life, but am against the fearmongering of the right, so I am center-left). If Trump gets elected in 2024, I'd rather be in the EU. I looked at the website also, and it seems extremely racist.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Agreed 100% man. Kinda ironic that a paper with the name of "Federalist" supports unconstitutional measures. I am fed up with the right in the USA (I am pro-life, but am against the fearmongering of the right, so I am center-left). If Trump gets elected in 2024, I'd rather be in the EU. I looked at the website also, and it seems extremely racist.

I thought about adding "white supremacy" to my list of far right things that "Federalist" "flirts" with, but didn't want to stir up a pointless back reaction. But, I agree with you on your assessment.

 

[ViaCrucis]

That pretty much is the history of humanity. No golden era.
Just a few specific people here and there, now and then who bring some love into the world.

It would be wonderful if we were all a bit more like Fred Rogers. But living in this world, where dog eats dog, we guard ourselves often with cynicism. Because living truly vulnerably is dangerous. Now I'd say it is precisely that kind of vulnerability that Jesus calls His disciples to have and live, the vulnerability He Himself lived and demonstrated; it's the vulnerability St. Paul talks about in Philippians chapter 2. It's the unrealized ideal of the Christian way; to reference GK Chesterton, the "Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting, it's been found hard and left untried".

That as Christians we fail to live up to our calling in Christ, while a tragedy itself, is not the deep concern I think we should have. The reality of sin, that we are ourselves sinners who are always in need of the healing mercy of God's grace is firmly grounded in Scripture and our historic and common Christian confession. Not that we excuse our failure and hypocrisies; but that we acknowledge them, repent of them, and show each other a measure of grace--we are only small, weak, and human after all.

What should be of deep concern is when we cease to regard the Christian ideal as the ideal, when we no longer are recognizing our own sin, weakness, and hypocrisy. When we are no longer saying, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner." And instead we puff our chest out and arrogantly declare our own holiness.

That we fail to take up our cross, and that we stumble time and again, that's not the real danger. The danger is when we, like the Laodiceans in the Apocalypse of St. John, are turning our gaze away from Christ, and saying "We are rich and prosperous, needing nothing".

What happens when we are not only like the world, but worse than the world? How arrogant would we have to be to imagine that just because we call ourselves "Christian" that we are immune to the cheap vanities of this present age? Or as though we can, somehow, take power and call it evil when it is used out there, but somehow if we wed ourselves to it, we can somehow baptize power and it ceases to evil simply because we wield it. A sword does not become holy because it is a Christian who wields it, the Christian is not holy and therefore makes holy whatever he or she touches. Christ says it is not what enters a man that makes him impure, but what comes out.

If I do that which is evil, it remains evil. And I myself am found evil for doing it. Evil does not become good when it is done by a Christian. There is no such thing as holy thievery or pious murder or godly abuse. Evil is evil, and those who think themselves pious when they commit evil are, at best, delusional and at worst children of the devil himself; as Christ says in the Gospel of John.

I am, and have been, deeply troubled by the trends of a spirituality that amounts to, "I thank you Lord that I am not like these sinners over there". The Law should often be a sharp knife, that cuts and causes us pain and discomfort in our own conscience: I have not loved as I should love, I have not turned the other cheek, I have not loved my enemy, I have not trusted in God--I have asserted myself, I have denied others love, I have retaliated evil with evil, I have despised others, I have put more faith in myself than in God. God, be merciful to me, a sinner.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Whyayeman]

That as Christians we fail to live up to our calling in Christ, while a tragedy itself, is not the deep concern I think we should have. The reality of sin, that we are ourselves sinners who are always in need of the healing mercy of God's grace is firmly grounded in Scripture and our historic and common Christian confession. Not that we excuse our failure and hypocrisies; but that we acknowledge them, repent of them, and show each other a measure of grace--we are only small, weak, and human after all.

I just want to remind you that while we are in agreement (I think) in rejecting the assumptions of the original post we do not all subscribe to what you have called 'our historic and common Christian confession'. I see no 'stunning embrace of paganism'. Americans are much as they always have been - and so are the rest of us.

If anything, we have become more tolerant and kind towards people a little bit different from ourselves. I think that is an encouraging sign.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I just want to remind you that while we are in agreement (I think) in rejecting the assumptions of the original post we do not all subscribe to what you have called 'our historic and common Christian confession'. I see no 'stunning embrace of paganism'. Americans are much as they always have been - and so are the rest of us.

If anything, we have become more tolerant and kind towards people a little bit different from ourselves. I think that is an encouraging sign.

The "our" here isn't intended to be all-inclusive. I am referring to those who confess Christianity. My intent was to invite someone who shares my religion to a different perspective.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Whyayeman]

The "our" here isn't intended to be all-inclusive. I am referring to those who confess Christianity. My intent was to invite someone who shares my religion to a different perspective.

-CryptoLutheran

OK, I see.

 

[VCR-2000]

I resent that I have to live in this era of time of a dying civilization. It is like suffering a collective cancer.

Got to say that I have a little envy for the older generations that grew up and fought their wars and lived in the heyday, they are glad they are dying and don't have to see the decline. I see that all the time.

 

[BCP1928]

I resent that I have to live in this era of time of a dying civilization. It is like suffering a collective cancer.

Got to say that I have a little envy for the older generations that grew up and fought their wars and lived in the heyday, they are glad they are dying and don't have to see the decline. I see that all the time.

Well, I'm 81 and I don't see anything happening that I would rather die in order to avoid it.

 

[partinobodycular]

I resent that I have to live in this era of time of a dying civilization. It is like suffering a collective cancer.

Got to say that I have a little envy for the older generations that grew up and fought their wars and lived in the heyday, they are glad they are dying and don't have to see the decline. I see that all the time.

A dying civilization... are you nuts? You're blessed to be living in the greatest age in the history of mankind. One where we're standing on the threshold of a prosperity unseen since the garden itself, and you think that it's dying. The only thing dying here is some people's arrogant belief that they're the sole guardians of all things good and right, but they're not. They're simply the latest example of the old establishment fervently resisting the coming of the new one.

Now to you it may feel like civilization's dying, but trust me, it's not... it's just changing.

 

[dlamberth]

When watching a video of the prayer circle speaking in tongues on the floor of Arizona's House of Representatives a couple of days ago, it struck me that Christianity very much does have it's own Paganist like spiritual practices. Though not a Pagan, I have been to Pagan rituals and what I saw in that video was weirder than any Pagan event I've experienced.

 

[Whyayeman]

When watching a video of the prayer circle speaking in tongues on the floor of Arizona's House of Representatives a couple of days ago, it struck me that Christianity very much does have it's own Paganist like spiritual practices. Though not a Pagan, I have been to Pagan rituals and what I saw in that video was weirder than any Pagan event I've experienced.

It is true. The main Christian festivals are based on Pagan celebrations. Christmas is just the winter solstice in fancy dress. Easter Day is calculated on the ancient lunar calendar.

I don't really think it is paganism which is replacing Christianity. There is just a long-term trend away from belief in the supernatural. It may be more pronounced in Western Europe than in America but it is evident there too.

 

[JSRG]

It is true. The main Christian festivals are based on Pagan celebrations. Christmas is just the winter solstice in fancy dress.

This is a popular claim, but is largely lacking support. The first real evidence of any winter solstice celebration among the Romans, as far as I can tell, only comes after we know Christians were celebrating Christmas.

Easter Day is calculated on the ancient lunar calendar.

The Jewish holiday Passover is based on the lunar cycle, as it's supposed to fall under a full moon (it falls in the middle of a Hebrew month, which is where the full moon always happens). The Easter calculation is simply based on the Passover calculation (in Greek, Passover and Easter are actually the same word).

To pre-emptively answer the question of "wait, why is Passover so different from Easter on same years?" the answer is that the Hebrew calendar right now is running fast due to an error--sort of like how the Julian calendar got offtrack and had to be replaced with the Gregorian Calendar--and sometimes puts Passover a month later than it needs to be. Passover is supposed to be after the spring equinox, and the "leap years" in the Hebrew calendar where an extra month is added prevents it from doing so, but due to the calendar error we see some years, like this year, where the "after the spring equinox" requirement would have been fulfilled without the extra month, but the month gets added anyway due to calendar drift and puts Passover markedly away from Easter's time.