My understanding is that dispensationalist teaching tells us the Church will . .
What happens to Israel during this time?
Peace in Him!
What happens to Israel during this time?
Peace in Him!
Who will Reign with Christ for 1000 years?
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"When the LORD will have compassion on Jacob, and again choose Israel, and settle them in their own land, then strangers will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob. And the peoples will take them along and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them as an inheritance in the land of the LORD as male servants and female servants; and they will take their captors captive, and will rule over their oppressors. And it will be in the day when the LORD gives you rest from your pain and turmoil and harsh service in which you have been enslaved,..." (Isa. 14:1-3).thereselittleflower said:
In Christ,
Tracey
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Tracey, thank you for the scripture, I am familiar with it, but I don't see how it answers the question I asked about who will reign with Christ for 1000 years . .
I remember it being ingrained into me that the Church will reign with Christ for the millenial 1000 year Messianic reign, and that is what I find online as well as what my friends confirm taught by dispenesationalism . .
I just wanted to clarify that I am not missing something and to get a better handle on what dispensationalist teaching is regarding Israel .. obviously Jesus reigns as their Messianic King . . . . . . I wanted a better understanding on the role Israel plays in this time period of the Church reigning with Christ according to dispensationalist thought.
Peace in Him!
I remember it being ingrained into me that the Church will reign with Christ for the millenial 1000 year Messianic reign, and that is what I find online as well as what my friends confirm taught by dispenesationalism . .
I just wanted to clarify that I am not missing something and to get a better handle on what dispensationalist teaching is regarding Israel .. obviously Jesus reigns as their Messianic King . . . . . . I wanted a better understanding on the role Israel plays in this time period of the Church reigning with Christ according to dispensationalist thought.
Peace in Him!
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God's great purpose in establishing His future kingdom on this present earth is to fulfill the promises given in the Abrahamic, Davidic, Palestinian, and new covenants. Christ will rule over a united Israel with Jerusalem as the center of the kingdom and being in covenant relation to Him they (meaning Israel) will enjoy a special relationship as subjects of the King.thereselittleflower said:
In Christ,
Tracey
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Thanks Tracey, that is what I have understood as well . .. so there is not anything new in Dispensationalism that says that Israel will rule with Christ during this time, is that correct?Tractor1 said:
My understanding is when the Church is raptured, that is the end of the Church age, and those in the tribulation are part of the previous dispensation of Law which is now the final week of that dispensation as described by Daniel, correct?
Now let me go a little further here . . As a result of the Church being raptured, the dispensation of Grace is over, and the blood of Christ can no longer atone for sins.
Since the age of Grace is over, how are those who come to believe in Jesus saved? The Church age is over so they are not part of the Church and do not particpate in the atoning death of Christ on the Cross, correct? They are under the dispensation of the Law, and so are saved by their obedience to God's law, am I understanding this right?
Peace in Him!
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As to the specific mechanics of the millenial rule Jesus once promised to reward the Twelve by granting them to sit upon thrones to rule over the tribes of Israel (Matt. 19:28). Also, some interpret (Ezk. 34 & 37) to mean that King David will have a special place of rulership under Christ in the kingdom. Though the Church will have royal authority as the King's consort I see no reason Israelites will not have some ruling authority in their own kingdom.thereselittleflower said:
Even though this dispensation in which God is making a particular demonstration of His graciousness will come to an end, He has always dealt with man through grace. It is only through grace that He chose Israel and entered into covenant relation with them. More importantly, the basis for salvation in every age is the death of Christ; with faith as the requirement. The Law saved no one, it was only a covenant of works that regulated the daily life of those already in covenant relation to God.
In Christ,
Tracey
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Can someone please help me out. Can you put next to the verse of the passage below where an earthly kingdom is going to be ruled over by Christ? I have twisted this passage every way I can, and it still comes out the same.
Did Paul falsify something here? That is why I myself am just waiting for the end of the world and reigning with God in heaven. I am just cofused on this. HELP! God bless.
1 corin 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by Man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order:
1 Christ the firstfruits,
2 afterward those [who are] Christ's at His coming.
3 Then [comes] the end,
when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
hebrew 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
21Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 "God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
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Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
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The millenial reign takes place between verses 23 and 26 of (1 Cor. 15). (John 5:25-29) reports Christ as saying that resurrection is universal. He doesn't indicate there will be a time intervening between the two classes which He names, but neither does He inform us that there won't be. The hour which He declared "is coming, and now is" has already extended close to two thousand years. Many of Christ's initial teachings are expanded in the Epistles and Revelation, and in (1 Cor. 15:20-26) the universal character of resurrection is asserted once more, but with the added truth that there are companies involved with time intervals between. Christ is raised first, then those who are His at His coming, and finally the end of the resurrection program when the last enemy which is death shall be destroyed, with a millenium between, in which Christ puts down all contrary authority forever (Rev. 20:1-6, 12-15).In Christ Forever said:Can someone please help me out. Can you put next to the verse of the passage below where an earthly kingdom is going to be ruled over by Christ? I have twisted this passage every way I can, and it still comes out the same.
Did Paul falsify something here? That is why I myself am just waiting for the end of the world and reigning with God in heaven. I am just cofused on this. HELP! God bless.
1 corin 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by Man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order:
1 Christ the firstfruits,
2 afterward those [who are] Christ's at His coming.
3 Then [comes] the end,
when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
hebrew 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
21Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 "God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
In Christ,
Tracey
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Correct... It's NOT Israel, it's NOT the church.... it's those believers who are "beheaded for the witness of Jesus" that rule and reign in the millenial kingdom...AV1611 said:
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See, this doesn't make sense . .@@Paul@@ said:
If they come to believe after the Church age is over, so are not part of the Church, logic would dicated that they belong to the age of dispensation in which they are in, that of the Law, that of Israel . .
So, how can the 7 year tribulation be the 70th week of Daniel under the previous dispenation, completely different than that of the Church, yet not be part of Israel, who's dispenesation they are under?
Suddenly now we have a whole new group of people who somewho belong to neither Israel or the Church?
What happens to these people after the millenium when there is a new heaven and a new earth?
Peace in Him!
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Tracey, why then is the temple sacrifice reinstituted in the Millenial reign? What is its purpose?Tractor1 said:
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Just as the Lord's Supper does now, animal sacrifice in the kingdom (Ezek. 43:19-27) looks back to the cross as a memorial.thereselittleflower said:
In Christ,
Tracey
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I'm not sure i understand what you're saying (don't worry i get that a lot)... Correct me if Im wrong.thereselittleflower said:
There are three groups of people; just as there are three rooms in the temple... three levels in the ark... The cherubim have three sets of wings.... It ALL ties together...
There are those who lived under Law who did NOT see the promises God made to Abraham fulfilled (God has provided a BETTER thing for them).
Then there are those who live in the age of Grace (no relation to the earthly portion of God's kingdom)...
And we have those who live under Law > who will see the realization of the kingdom.
There is a new group of people, it's called a NEW man...
I can't say where ANY one will be in the New Heaven and Earth except the bride... She will be in the New Jerusalem...
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Yet this is debated in dispensationalist circles, some claiming they atone for sin, others as you described above . .Tractor1 said:
This resulting confusion over something so very central to salvation is serious.
And I have to ask from your view point, why re-establish the Old Testmanet sacrfices which were part of the OLD Covenant to remember Christ's death which is part of the NEW Covenant?
Jesus said the Cup is the NEW Covenant in His Blood . .and we are to partake of it as oft as we will in rememberance of Him . .
Why, if the Jewish people are entering into the NEW Covenant, are they needing to resort to OLD covenant sacrifices to remember Christ's death on the Cross when Christ instituted the BREAD and CUP of the NEW Testament?
This is not adding up.
Peace in Him!
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Where do the people who die in the Tribulation who believe fit into those groups?@@Paul@@ said:
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(option #3 above) Those are the one's who will SEE the promise AND enter into the Kingdom.thereselittleflower said:
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
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How do they SEE and enter into the kingdom DURING the Tribulation?@@Paul@@ said:
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Flower writes:
"Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance" (Exodus 12:14).
Israel will celebrate this memorial throughout the millennium along with the animal sacrifices that are offered in connection. Another thing to consider is that even though Passover was a memorial celebration of God's deliverance from Egypt, it was also a shadow doctrine or type of what would be provide in the Lamb of God. Therefore, while I believe the millennial sacrifices will be memorial in nature they might also be a type or shadow of something to come.
In Christ,
Tracey
While understanding there are differing opinions on the millennial sacrifices I'll offer my reasoning for their memorial nature. The first use of the word memorial is found in the Scriptures dealing with the celebration of Passover.
"Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance" (Exodus 12:14).
Israel will celebrate this memorial throughout the millennium along with the animal sacrifices that are offered in connection. Another thing to consider is that even though Passover was a memorial celebration of God's deliverance from Egypt, it was also a shadow doctrine or type of what would be provide in the Lamb of God. Therefore, while I believe the millennial sacrifices will be memorial in nature they might also be a type or shadow of something to come.
In Christ,
Tracey
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(Rev 20:4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
and which. Does anybody have a Greek interlinear? It should read "and WHOSOEVER had not..." &c.
Whosoever means whosoever. Those who do not accept antichrist are not necessarily those who lost their heads.
Ezek. 44 gives you the answers to the question. There are the Levites who went astray who serve in the outer court of the sanctuary.
The Zadok, meaning the "just"...the election, serves in the inner court of the sanctuary.
There will be no rapture of the church before the antichrist comes (2 Thess. 2, etc.)
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