Who Started the Great Schism?

prodromos

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The East cannot pronounce heresy. They can meet, discuss and then ask the Roman Pope.

If the Pope did not state it was heresy, and it is not nor was it ever stated as such, then it is not heresy.
It was not until the last year we quit saying in generous deference to Eastern kin.

Did Jesus say - Peter seek the council of the others?
No.

The others had councils so they could get in line of the Pope's teaching via discussions of what they knew in Tradition....and yet then have the approval of the Roman Pope. It is not them stating heresy, it is not their job, nor was it ever their job.
So, it was never stated as heresy and it is not.
A council is not a necessity for the Pope to teach but it is a place of discussion and then seeking the answer from the Chair of Peter for the rest of the Church.
I think the mistake comes from the idea the others have some power over or equal to the Pope but that's never been a teaching of the Pope nor the understanding of the Church.
The other Sees hold true the teachings of Rome in their jurisdictions.

Nothing more, nothing less.
Forgive me WA, but your posts come across as a bad ChatGPT session that has been trained with articles solely written by ultramontanists. You make these sweeping statements with nothing to back them up (and there is nothing to back them up) and then act as if you have made some unassailable argument. You come across as someone with an extremely tenuous grip on reality.
I can't respond to your post because there is nothing of substance to respond to.
 
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ArmyMatt

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The East cannot pronounce heresy. They can meet, discuss and then ask the Roman Pope.
again, not true. Ephesus was pronounced and finished before the Roman delegation got there.
If the Pope did not state it was heresy, and it is not nor was it ever stated as such, then it is not heresy.
It was not until the last year we quit saying in generous deference to Eastern kin.
he did state it was heresy. many Popes stated it was heresy. in fact, it was only after Rome became more influenced by the Franks that they changed their mind about it.

The others had councils so they could get in line of the Pope's teaching via discussions of what they knew in Tradition....and yet then have the approval of the Roman Pope. It is not them stating heresy, it is not their job, nor was it ever their job.
So, it was never stated as heresy and it is not.
A council is not a necessity for the Pope to teach but it is a place of discussion and then seeking the answer from the Chair of Peter for the rest of the Church.
history shows otherwise. you keep asserting this without any evidence to support it.

and yes, for the unpteenth time, Rome agreed it was heretical at our Constantinople IV. they did so at local councils as well.
 
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WarriorAngel

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again, not true. Ephesus was pronounced and finished before the Roman delegation got there.

he did state it was heresy. many Popes stated it was heresy. in fact, it was only after Rome became more influenced by the Franks that they changed their mind about it.


history shows otherwise. you keep asserting this without any evidence to support it.

and yes, for the unpteenth time, Rome agreed it was heretical at our Constantinople IV. they did so at local councils as well.
I am trying to state this so it is understood, Not a single council is ecumenical nor 'strictly adhered to' unless the Roman Pope states it.

The filioque was 'never stopped' being used. It was never stated it was heresy. The Popes considered not allowing it but let it go because.... it was not heresy and it was not demanded it BE done in East.

You take the statement from the Creed of Constantinople and restate it does not make it heresy.

Jesus said one sin is so grieved we are not forgiven. Well, are we on earth grieving the Holy Spirit by separating Him from Himself in the Person Jesus? Can Jesus Who is also the Almighty Father, not send His Spirit? And should we use the utmost caution? Are we so scrupulous and so driven to be equal to the Chair of Peter that no matter Peter's Chair is different and yes enjoys the AUTHORITY of the Roman Churches but teaches for all...?


The filioque clause has been cited as one of the official causes of the schism between the Western and Eastern Churches in 1054. Although this point was later officially remedied by the Churches at the Councils of Lyons II (1274) and Florence (1439), the reconciliation was short lived. The filioque clause still remains a point of contention between Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians. (As an aside, this is one reason why the Orthodox Churches call themselves “the orthodox,” for they contend that the Roman Catholic Church tampered with the Creed.)

Why then did the Church add the filioque clause? Remember, during those early councils, like Nicea and Constantinople, the Church guided by the Holy Spirit was struggling to clarify the mystery of Christ, the Incarnate Word of God, and thereby the Trinity. We believe in one God, divinely revealed as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All three persons of the Trinity are equal, are distinct, share the same divine nature, and exist from all eternity.

With this is mind, examine Sacred Scripture. In Sacred Scripture, the Holy Spirit referred to as both the Spirit of the Son (Galatians 4:6) and the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9, Philippians 1:19). He is also called Spirit of the Father (Matthew 10:20) and the Spirit of God (I Corinthians 2:11). These citations show the same relationship of the Holy Spirit to the Son as to the Father.

IMHO - instead of fighting semantics and the authority of a Creed vs the Chair of Peter, one would seek the voice of the Lord through the power of humility.

AGAIN - councils were the clergy [mainly Bishops et al] coming together to discuss understanding for 'here is the NEWEST heresy' and now we discuss.

Also, for it to be a teaching council for all, it must be addressed by the Pope and understood if he agrees or changes it.

It is presumptuous to state the others had the same authority as the Roman Pontiff. And that is basically the real argument and the real answer.
Again, no. No council, no group, no others can usurp the role of the Roman Pope. And to glean that it is possible is where those men lacked humility and thus error.
 
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ArmyMatt

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The filioque was 'never stopped' being used. It was never stated it was heresy. The Popes considered not allowing it but let it go because.... it was not heresy and it was not demanded it BE done in East.
again, incorrect. the whole Church prior to the Schism deemed it a heresy to include Rome.

You take the statement from the Creed of Constantinople and restate it does not make it heresy.
no, I am taking Rome’s official statement along with the rest of the Church calling it a heresy at Constantinople IV.

AGAIN - councils were the clergy [mainly Bishops et al] coming together to discuss understanding for 'here is the NEWEST heresy' and now we discuss.
again, false. Ecumenical Councils also dealt with heresies that had been around for a while. not just the newest.

Also, for it to be a teaching council for all, it must be addressed by the Pope and understood if he agrees or changes it.
false, Ephesus disproves this.
 
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WarriorAngel

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WarriorAngel

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again, incorrect. the whole Church prior to the Schism deemed it a heresy to include Rome.


no, I am taking Rome’s official statement along with the rest of the Church calling it a heresy at Constantinople IV.


again, false. Ecumenical Councils also dealt with heresies that had been around for a while. not just the newest.


false, Ephesus disproves this.
AGAIN, Photius argued against the filioque, a man who was never taught theology and was a worldly individual. He was not clergy.
Henceforth that the Eastern churches sided with him to created a local council, is evident because the East deferred to the Filioque two times after.


And once again, that council was not ecumenical.


First, is it understood for the whole church to agree, it is only then ecumenical. Otherwise, no matter how many there are, they retain local council only.


The Council settled the dispute that had broken out after the deposition of Ignatius as Patriarch of Constantinople in 858. Ignatius, himself appointed to his office in an uncanonical manner, opposed Caesar Bardas, who had deposed the regent Theodora. In response, Bardas' nephew, the youthful Emperor Michael III engineered Ignatius's deposition and confinement on the charge of treason. The patriarchal throne was filled with Photius, a renowned scholar and kinsman of Bardas. The deposition of Ignatius without a formal ecclesiastical trial and the sudden promotion of Photios caused scandal in the church. Pope Nicholas I and the western bishops took up the cause of Ignatios and condemned Photios's election as uncanonical. In 863, at a synod in Rome the pope deposed Photios, and reappointed Ignatius as the rightful patriarch. However, Photius enjoined the support of the Emperor and responded by calling a Council and excommunicating the pope.
[How many times did worldly leaders usurp Peter's chair in the East? Many I am seeing]

Understand he had no authority.
It was NOT ecumenical.
Understand YOU cannot remove, usurp or excommunicate the TEACHER of the whole Church.
Nobody can, no one. And no council.



The Photian Schism (863–867) that led to the councils of 869 and 879 represents a break between East and West. While the previous seven ecumenical councils are recognized as ecumenical and authoritative by both East and West, many Eastern Orthodox Christians recognize the council of 879 as the Eighth Ecumenical Council, arguing that it annulled the earlier one.[1] This council is referred to as Ecumenical in the Encyclical of the Eastern Patriarchs of 1848.[8] The Catholic Church, however, recognizes the council of 869 as the eighth ecumenical council and does not place the council of 879 among ecumenical councils.[9]

Council of 879–880[edit]​

A council was convened in 879, held at Constantinople, comprising the representatives of all the five patriarchates, including that of Rome (all in all 383 bishops). Anthony Edward Siecienski writes: "In 879 the emperor called for another council to meet in Constantinople in the hopes that the new pope, John VIII (872-882) would recognize the validity of Photius's claim upon the patriarchate. This council, sometimes called the eighth ecumenical in the East was attended by the papal legates (who had brought with them a gift from the pope—a pallium for Photius) and by over 400 bishops, and who immediately confirmed Photius as rightful patriarch."[1]

The council also implicitly condemned the addition of the Filioque to the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, an addition rejected at that time in Rome: "The Creed (without the filioque) was read out and a condemnation pronounced against those who 'impose on it their own invented phrases [ἰδίας εὑρεσιολογίαις] and put this forth as a common lesson to the faithful or to those who return from some kind of heresy and display the audacity to falsify completely [κατακιβδηλεῦσαι άποθρασυνθείη] the antiquity of this sacred and venerable Horos [Rule] with illegitimate words, or additions, or subtractions'."[4] Eastern Orthodox Christians argue that thereby the council condemned not only the addition of the Filioque clause to the creed but also denounced the clause as heretical (a view strongly espoused by Photius in his polemics against Rome), while Roman Catholics separate the two and insist on the theological orthodoxy of the clause. According to non-Catholic Philip Schaff, "To the Greek acts was afterwards added a (pretended) letter of Pope John VIII to Photius, declaring the Filioque to be an addition which is rejected by the church of Rome, and a blasphemy which must be abolished calmly and by degrees."[5]

In Other Words, the Pope did not agree.
And therefore; did not sign off on it...
And legit that in itself to call the Chair of Peter erring would slap the face of the WORDS, the announcement...

THAT whatever you open is open in Heaven, or close is closed in Heaven.

So let's go full circle here, again the Roman Pope did not consider it a council they stood by. It was not marked ecumenical.
The only thing the Pope did in regards to that council was send a gift to the ordination of Photius.


IF the POPE said it was heresy, then why, pray tell would the councils of Lyons II (1274) and Florence (1439), agree to the filioque only to denounce it again... based solely and only on the choice of Photius.

WHO the heck was Photius compared to the Roman Pontiff?
Perhaps he lacked humility to create such mongering against the SOLE teacher of the Church, but I assure you, the Roman Church did not sign off on that and the proof is in history of the next councils later who agreed then disagreed.

It's the Pope's authority to teach, open and shut, but he cannot force others the humility needed to lead under him.
 
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ArmyMatt

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AGAIN, Photius argued against the filioque, a man who was never taught theology and was a worldly individual. He was not clergy.
Henceforth that the Eastern churches sided with him to created a local council, is evident because the East deferred to the Filioque two times after.
he was actually a bishop, and Rome sided with him for 100 years.

First, is it understood for the whole church to agree, it is only then ecumenical. Otherwise, no matter how many there are, they retain local council only.
they did, and then Rome changed her mind over a century later.

IF the POPE said it was heresy, then why, pray tell would the councils of Lyons II (1274) and Florence (1439), agree to the filioque only to denounce it again... based solely and only on the choice of Photius.
because Rome isn’t consistent. even the modern position is that both forms are valid, is only a modern position.

WHO the heck was Photius compared to the Roman Pontiff?
the patriarch of Constantinople

Perhaps he lacked humility to create such mongering against the SOLE teacher of the Church, but I assure you, the Roman Church did not sign off on that and the proof is in history of the next councils later who agreed then disagreed.

It's the Pope's authority to teach, open and shut, but he cannot force others the humility needed to lead under him.
this is just an assertion.
 
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prodromos

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AGAIN, Photius argued against the filioque, a man who was never taught theology and was a worldly individual. He was not clergy.
Henceforth that the Eastern churches sided with him to created a local council, is evident because the East deferred to the Filioque two times after.


And once again, that council was not ecumenical.


First, is it understood for the whole church to agree, it is only then ecumenical. Otherwise, no matter how many there are, they retain local council only.


The Council settled the dispute that had broken out after the deposition of Ignatius as Patriarch of Constantinople in 858. Ignatius, himself appointed to his office in an uncanonical manner, opposed Caesar Bardas, who had deposed the regent Theodora. In response, Bardas' nephew, the youthful Emperor Michael III engineered Ignatius's deposition and confinement on the charge of treason. The patriarchal throne was filled with Photius, a renowned scholar and kinsman of Bardas. The deposition of Ignatius without a formal ecclesiastical trial and the sudden promotion of Photios caused scandal in the church. Pope Nicholas I and the western bishops took up the cause of Ignatios and condemned Photios's election as uncanonical. In 863, at a synod in Rome the pope deposed Photios, and reappointed Ignatius as the rightful patriarch. However, Photius enjoined the support of the Emperor and responded by calling a Council and excommunicating the pope.
[How many times did worldly leaders usurp Peter's chair in the East? Many I am seeing]

Understand he had no authority.
It was NOT ecumenical.
Understand YOU cannot remove, usurp or excommunicate the TEACHER of the whole Church.
Nobody can, no one. And no council.



The Photian Schism (863–867) that led to the councils of 869 and 879 represents a break between East and West. While the previous seven ecumenical councils are recognized as ecumenical and authoritative by both East and West, many Eastern Orthodox Christians recognize the council of 879 as the Eighth Ecumenical Council, arguing that it annulled the earlier one.[1] This council is referred to as Ecumenical in the Encyclical of the Eastern Patriarchs of 1848.[8] The Catholic Church, however, recognizes the council of 869 as the eighth ecumenical council and does not place the council of 879 among ecumenical councils.[9]

Council of 879–880[edit]​

A council was convened in 879, held at Constantinople, comprising the representatives of all the five patriarchates, including that of Rome (all in all 383 bishops). Anthony Edward Siecienski writes: "In 879 the emperor called for another council to meet in Constantinople in the hopes that the new pope, John VIII (872-882) would recognize the validity of Photius's claim upon the patriarchate. This council, sometimes called the eighth ecumenical in the East was attended by the papal legates (who had brought with them a gift from the pope—a pallium for Photius) and by over 400 bishops, and who immediately confirmed Photius as rightful patriarch."[1]

The council also implicitly condemned the addition of the Filioque to the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, an addition rejected at that time in Rome: "The Creed (without the filioque) was read out and a condemnation pronounced against those who 'impose on it their own invented phrases [ἰδίας εὑρεσιολογίαις] and put this forth as a common lesson to the faithful or to those who return from some kind of heresy and display the audacity to falsify completely [κατακιβδηλεῦσαι άποθρασυνθείη] the antiquity of this sacred and venerable Horos [Rule] with illegitimate words, or additions, or subtractions'."[4] Eastern Orthodox Christians argue that thereby the council condemned not only the addition of the Filioque clause to the creed but also denounced the clause as heretical (a view strongly espoused by Photius in his polemics against Rome), while Roman Catholics separate the two and insist on the theological orthodoxy of the clause. According to non-Catholic Philip Schaff, "To the Greek acts was afterwards added a (pretended) letter of Pope John VIII to Photius, declaring the Filioque to be an addition which is rejected by the church of Rome, and a blasphemy which must be abolished calmly and by degrees."[5]

In Other Words, the Pope did not agree.
And therefore; did not sign off on it...
And legit that in itself to call the Chair of Peter erring would slap the face of the WORDS, the announcement...

THAT whatever you open is open in Heaven, or close is closed in Heaven.

So let's go full circle here, again the Roman Pope did not consider it a council they stood by. It was not marked ecumenical.
The only thing the Pope did in regards to that council was send a gift to the ordination of Photius.


IF the POPE said it was heresy, then why, pray tell would the councils of Lyons II (1274) and Florence (1439), agree to the filioque only to denounce it again... based solely and only on the choice of Photius.

WHO the heck was Photius compared to the Roman Pontiff?
Perhaps he lacked humility to create such mongering against the SOLE teacher of the Church, but I assure you, the Roman Church did not sign off on that and the proof is in history of the next councils later who agreed then disagreed.

It's the Pope's authority to teach, open and shut, but he cannot force others the humility needed to lead under him.
Your 'history' is all over the place. You are confusing St Photius with St Mark of Ephesus (both of whom are venerated by Eastern Catholics)
 
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ArmyMatt

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Your 'history' is all over the place. You are confusing St Photius with St Mark of Ephesus (both of whom are venerated by Eastern Catholics)
the logic as well. you can’t argue that the Pope can make changes as the sole teacher, and then argue against historical examples given.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Your 'history' is all over the place. You are confusing St Photius with St Mark of Ephesus (both of whom are venerated by Eastern Catholics)
The prelates brought a gift to Photius as new Bishop of Constantinople.
Yet their presence was not in agreement to the FILIOQUE which again I state this - only the Pope is teacher of the whole Church and the East should have submitted to the Pope of Rome.
But the council was not Ecumenical.
The East says so in 1848, but the Roman Church does not and did not document the Filioque findings as problematic.
In fact they continued to use it even through the Council of Lyons and Florence and the East made an agreement on the findings in those councils [which were Ecumenical having the Western Pope]
but backed out of 2 - yes 2 Ecumenical councils.

But stand by a council which was local, considering it Ecumenical when there was never a decision by the Pope to stop using the filioque in HIS Church in the West.

He considered it, but did not do it.

So my findings are this:
The East pointing fingers [what have you] at a council they alone call Ecumenical and how the Pope or the West broke from a council...
[Which BTW was not about the filioque] and reasoning would indeed see that the line added in the Nicea Constantinople council in fact shows the Trinity formula which is in agreement to the filioque...

BUT steps over the truth that they themselves agreed to the FILIOQUE twice after in Ecumenical councils but it's ok for them to change Ecumenical councils or even ignore them.

Irony.
 
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WarriorAngel

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But let me find another way to state this.

Roman Church and Papal agreement 879? No.
Not Ecumenical.
Agreement of Filioque wrong? No

Ecumenical with East 1274? Yes
Ecumenical with East 1439? Yes.

Findings in 1274 and 1439, agreement of the Filioque? Yes and yes.

Now, simply put, the East stands on the Nicea Creed, yes?
But it was incomplete obviously to the heresy AGAINST the Trinity.
So back to the drawing board to get rid of heresy...
SO an addition is made ensuring [so they thought] that the heresy ended.

Again, The Roman Pope is allowed to shepherd his own flock, and in doing so the East could join in [knowing he is the teacher of all with or without a council because he holds the keys and Faith advises us that he cannot err and Heaven accepts his allowances again without a council]... and the Filioque [which is not problematic if you truly believe in the Trinity] was allowable despite opinions contrary to the role of what Jesus announced.
Because it was through the Father not only would Peter be Rock but what he taught would be agreed in Heaven.

All I am seeing is people ignoring the two Ecumenical councils in favor of restating a local council.

Curiosity on my part is why becry a local council that was not Ecumenical but full on step over two Ecumenical councils?

So who is really the ones not keeping the entire Churches Ecumenical councils?
 
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ArmyMatt

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The East says so in 1848, but the Roman Church does not and did not document the Filioque findings as problematic.
yes they did, right up until the Schism when they changed.

But stand by a council which was local, considering it Ecumenical when there was never a decision by the Pope to stop using the filioque in HIS Church in the West.
incorrect. there is a reason the Creed in the Vatican on silver tablets is without the filioque (even on the Latin slab).

BUT steps over the truth that they themselves agreed to the FILIOQUE twice after in Ecumenical councils but it's ok for them to change Ecumenical councils or even ignore them.
no we didn’t. you don’t understand how our ecclesiology works. we never accepted the filioque.

But it was incomplete obviously to the heresy AGAINST the Trinity.
every Council from Ephesus to Nicaea II disagree here.

All I am seeing is people ignoring the two Ecumenical councils in favor of restating a local council.
what two ecumenical councils?
 
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prodromos

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The prelates brought a gift to Photius as new Bishop of Constantinople.
Yet their presence was not in agreement to the FILIOQUE which again I state this - only the Pope is teacher of the whole Church and the East should have submitted to the Pope of Rome.
Which Ecumenical Council states that only the Pope is the teacher of the whole Church? You keep making this claim with no basis whatsoever.
But the council was not Ecumenical.
The East says so in 1848, but the Roman Church does not and did not document the Filioque findings as problematic.
The 879 council was accepted by Rome and the 869 council was rejected until the Investiture Controversy in Rome, when canonists found one of the canons in the robber council to be to their advantage.
In fact they continued to use it even through the Council of Lyons and Florence and the East made an agreement on the findings in those councils [which were Ecumenical having the Western Pope]
but backed out of 2 - yes 2 Ecumenical councils.
Rome backed out of the 879 council which was ecumenical according to your claims. Ferrara-Florence was another robber council, the Eastern bishops were held under literal house arrest for over a decade until the West got what they wanted, since the Eastern bishops were dependent on funding from Rome in order to be able to return home.
But stand by a council which was local, considering it Ecumenical when there was never a decision by the Pope to stop using the filioque in HIS Church in the West.

He considered it, but did not do it.
History proves you wrong.
So my findings are this:
The East pointing fingers [what have you] at a council they alone call Ecumenical and how the Pope or the West broke from a council...
[Which BTW was not about the filioque] and reasoning would indeed see that the line added in the Nicea Constantinople council in fact shows the Trinity formula which is in agreement to the filioque...

BUT steps over the truth that they themselves agreed to the FILIOQUE twice after in Ecumenical councils but it's ok for them to change Ecumenical councils or even ignore them.

Irony.
This is delusional.
 
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prodromos

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But let me find another way to state this.

Roman Church and Papal agreement 879? No.
Already proven false. 879 stood until Rome repudiated it so they could use one of the canons in the robber council of 869 in the Investiture Controversy
Not Ecumenical.
Agreement of Filioque wrong? No
Both false. According to the rules you claim, 879 was indeed Ecumenical and the Filioque was rejected by Rome as heretical.
Ecumenical with East 1274? Yes
Ecumenical with East 1439? Yes.

Findings in 1274 and 1439, agreement of the Filioque? Yes and yes.
All the above are false, as history plainly demonstrates
Now, simply put, the East stands on the Nicea Creed, yes?
But it was incomplete obviously to the heresy AGAINST the Trinity.
So back to the drawing board to get rid of heresy...
SO an addition is made ensuring [so they thought] that the heresy ended.
Heresy against the divinity of the Holy Spirit, which was not in question at Nicaea. The council in Toledo added the filioque in an attempt to fight Arianism, which had already been defeated at Nicaea. Tell me WA, what part of:

Light of Light,
True God of True God​

and

Of one essence with the Father​

leaves the divinity of Christ in question? What was lacking in the defence of Chist's divinity that required the Spaniards to add the filioque?
Again, The Roman Pope is allowed to shepherd his own flock, and in doing so the East could join in [knowing he is the teacher of all with or without a council because he holds the keys and Faith advises us that he cannot err and Heaven accepts his allowances again without a council]... and the Filioque [which is not problematic if you truly believe in the Trinity] was allowable despite opinions contrary to the role of what Jesus announced.
Because it was through the Father not only would Peter be Rock but what he taught would be agreed in Heaven.
Sorry, but no.
All I am seeing is people ignoring the two Ecumenical councils in favor of restating a local council.

Curiosity on my part is why becry a local council that was not Ecumenical but full on step over two Ecumenical councils?

So who is really the ones not keeping the entire Churches Ecumenical councils?
I believe we have made it pretty clear that Rome is in error.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Tell me WA, what part of:

Light of Light,
True God of True God
and

Of one essence with the Father
leaves the divinity of Christ in question?
What was lacking in the defence of Chist's divinity that required the Spaniards to add the filioque?
and the whole “only begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages,” “begotten not made,” and “with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified” parts.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Already proven false. 879 stood until Rome repudiated it so they could use one of the canons in the robber council of 869 in the Investiture Controversy

Both false. According to the rules you claim, 879 was indeed Ecumenical and the Filioque was rejected by Rome as heretical.

All the above are false, as history plainly demonstrates

Heresy against the divinity of the Holy Spirit, which was not in question at Nicaea. The council in Toledo added the filioque in an attempt to fight Arianism, which had already been defeated at Nicaea. Tell me WA, what part of:

Light of Light,​
True God of True God​

and

Of one essence with the Father​

leaves the divinity of Christ in question? What was lacking in the defence of Chist's divinity that required the Spaniards to add the filioque?

Sorry, but no.

I believe we have made it pretty clear that Rome is in error.
You err.
I showed you the legates, who were not there for this demonstration may have nodded but the Pope did not.
The Filioque remained.
What is lacking in His Divinity is that this argument is even existing. That the Spirit proceeding from Him is heresy...?

And I repeat again, the Pope is shepherd not only of the whole, but his own region.
The East had the op to add the filioque [in their regions] and even agreed two times it was correct, but backed out.
 
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ArmyMatt

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What is lacking in His Divinity is that this argument is even existing. That the Spirit proceeding from Him is heresy...?
yes, because is procession a natural quality or a personal one?
 
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WarriorAngel

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yes, because is procession a natural quality or a personal one?
The Three are One.
To suggest They are divided, is
1. Flies in the face of the Creed.
2. Puts limits on the Lord.
3. Peter is the teacher. He was choice. His chair allows it and with those keys, Heaven KEPT him keeping it.
 
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