WHO DEPARTS FROM THE FAITH ?

[Dan Perez]

1 Tim 4:1 reads , Now the Spirit is speaking expressly , that in LATER times some will depart from the FAITH , giving attention to WANDERING spirits and teaching of demons .

Reading 2 Tim 4:16 the Holy Spirit had Paul write , At my first defense NO ONE came up to help me , but all had FORSAKEN me , May it not be reckoned to them , Paul writes .

But the Lord stood by me , in verse 17 .

So what were those , things that Paul was forsaken for ? and it seems that this DEPARTURE began during the APOSTLE Paul time ?

And what was the message that those during Paul's time DEPARTED FROM ??

what say you ?

dan p

 

[Psalm 27]

Some will leave their faith-distracted by Wandering spirits, and teachings of demons. By the second letter to Tim, they had already gone.
The message that drove them away was the threat of suffering,
pauls imprisonment (fear)
the holy calling,
distraction from sound teaching

(Just realised that this thread is a year old)

 

[Dan Perez]

Some will leave their faith-distracted by Wandering spirits, and teachings of demons. By the second letter to Tim, they had already gone.
The message that drove them away was the threat of suffering,
pauls imprisonment (fear)
the holy calling,
distraction from sound teaching

(Just realised that this thread is a year old)

Gal is just one verse , in Gal 1:9 !!

dan p

 

[Psalm 27]

Gal is just one verse , in Gal 1:9 !!

dan p

??

 

[Dan Perez]

??

Gal 1:9 Let him be // esto is in the Present Tense , Imperative Mood and it is a command in the Singular .

ACCURSED // ANATHEMA , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , meaning it is the subject , in the SIGNULAR , in th NEUTER , means MALE or FEMALE .

The Greek word ACCURSED and ANATHEMA is only used 6 times by Paul .

dan p

 

[Psalm 27]

Gal 1:9 Let him be // esto is in the Present Tense , Imperative Mood and it is a command in the Singular .

ACCURSED // ANATHEMA , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , meaning it is the subject , in the SIGNULAR , in th NEUTER , means MALE or FEMALE .

The b Greek word ACCURSED and ANATHEMA is only used 6 times by Paul .

dan p

I didn't mention galatians. Is there a reason that you posted this? I'm confused

 

[Dan Perez]

I didn't mention galatians. Is there a reason that you posted this? I'm confused

I will try !

The apostle Paul ONLY preached the Grace of God , Rom 1:1 and Rom 16:25 and 26 and many other verses .

And if a person accepted his teaching , verse 9 says , since someone is preaching the gospel to you CONTRARY to what to what you received , let him be ACCURSED .

The gospel that was preached , contrary to what Paul preached was the Law , in Gal 2:11--14 .

dan p

 

[Psalm 27]

???

 

[Dan Perez]

???

I am lost as too your 3 question marks !!

How and what can make more simple and begin on the same page ?

dan p

 

[Psalm 27]

Ok, i'll start again.
your original thread was 'who departs from the faith' yes?

I replied with why i believe they departed (In letters to Timothy).

Then you posted the galatians 1:9 verse about present tense etc. And teachers, who divert from grace to the law were/are 'accursed'.

The question marks are because I hadn't mentioned galatians. I was confused by your reply

 

[Dan Perez]

I didn't mention galatians. Is there a reason that you posted this? I'm confused

When reding Gal 1:6 that after Paul taught the Galatians , that they changed so quickly from the one having called you by GRACE , to another Gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND ,

We see Peter was the one that persuaded them to leave the GRACE that Paul preach and Peter was the one , trying to compel the Gentiles to adopt Jewish CUSOMS and RITES .

dan p

 

[Psalm 27]

When reding Gal 1:6 that after Paul taught the Galatians , that they changed so quickly from the one having called you by GRACE , to another Gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND ,

We see Peter was the one that persuaded them to leave the GRACE that Paul preach and Peter was the one , trying to compel the Gentiles to adopt Jewish CUSOMS and RITES .

dan p

sorry i misunderstood what you were trying to get across.
Of course, that's true. Surprise surprise, religion got in the way.
I was once bewitched by religion. Its a slippery slope.
That's why Christians must be born again, in order to enter into that grace

 

[Dan Perez]

sorry i misunderstood what you were trying to get across.
Of course, that's true. Surprise surprise, religion got in the way.
I was once bewitched by religion. Its a slippery slope.
That's why Christians must be born again, in order to enter into that grace Q

I do wonder if Paul ever wrote that anyone saved by Grace , is BORN AGAIN ?

Your thoughts ??

dan p

 

[Psalm 27]

I do wonder if Paul ever wrote that anyone saved by Grace , is BORN AGAIN ?

Your thoughts ??

dan p

We have to be born again, to be saved

 

[Dan Perez]

We have to be born again, to be saved

Are you referring to John 3:3 where you have to be BORN AGAIN ??

Or are you referring to John 3:5 where you have to be BORN OF WATER and of the Spirt to enter into the Kingdom of God .

Is it speaking to Israel ?

Or is it speaking to GENTILES ?

Do you see a DIFFERENCE between the two and if you do not seen difference , your thoughts , HERE , PEASE ?

dan p

 

[Psalm 27]

Are you referring to John 3:3 where you have to be BORN AGAIN ??

Or are you referring to John 3:5 where you have to be BORN OF WATER and of the Spirt to enter into the Kingdom of God .

Is it speaking to Israel ?

Or is it speaking to GENTILES ?

Do you see a DIFFERENCE between the two and if you do not seen difference , your thoughts , HERE , PEASE ?

dan p

V 3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

I believe this is for all.
What do you think 'born again' means?

 

[Dan Perez]

V 3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

I believe this is for all.
What do you think 'born again' means?

I do have and answer to who John 3 is speaking too !!

#1 What is the CONTEXT of John 3:3 and verse 5 talking to , Israel OR Gentiles ?

# 2 Verse 3 says , he cannot SEE // HORAO is in the Greek AORIST TENSE means the Past tense and will never be saved .

#3 The KINGDOM // BASILEIA is in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE , means it is LIMITED to the NOW , at Jesus TIME

In verse 5 says Except be born of WATER and of the SPIRIT , he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God .

# 4 What does WATER // HUDOR mean here ??

#5 Does it means WATER BAPTISM , and there are many see that it means WATER BAPTISM !!

# 6 Eze 36:25 - 38 , and who is Ezekiel speaking to GENTILES or Jews ??

#7 How you see #6 will answer your question , IT IA ALL JEWS !!

dan p

 

[Psalm 27]

I do have and answer to who John 3 is speaking too !!

#1 What is the CONTEXT of John 3:3 and verse 5 talking to , Israel OR Gentiles ?

# 2 Verse 3 says , he cannot SEE // HORAO is in the Greek AORIST TENSE means the Past tense and will never be saved .

#3 The KINGDOM // BASILEIA is in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE , means it is LIMITED to the NOW , at Jesus TIME

In verse 5 says Except be born of WATER and of the SPIRIT , he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God .

# 4 What does WATER // HUDOR mean here ??

#5 Does it means WATER BAPTISM , and there are many see that it means WATER BAPTISM !!

# 6 Eze 36:25 - 38 , and who is Ezekiel speaking to GENTILES or Jews ??

#7 How you see #6 will answer your question , IT IA ALL JEWS !!

dan p

Jesus is talking to a Jewish religious leader...john recorded it for 'the world' (3:16)

Born again creates such a change in a person's soul, and practical lifestyle, that it's obvious. (I believe that not many 'churchfolk' are born again)

Imo, born again has nothing to do with water baptism (more like an outward testimony, and act of obedience).

Born again mimics a new 'Jesus like' nature

 

[Dan Perez]

Jesus is talking to a Jewish religious leader...john recorded it for 'the world' (3:16)

Born again creates such a change in a person's soul, and practical lifestyle, that it's obvious. (I believe that not many 'churchfolk' are born again)

Imo, born again has nothing to do with water baptism (more like an outward testimony, and act of obedience).

Born again mimics a new 'Jesus like' nature

I believe that the CONTEXT of the book of john is speaking to Israel as John 1:31 was was written too!!

Your thinking as to who John is writing in John 3:5 that Except a man be BORN of WATER and of the Spirit , he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God ?

Your thoughts ?

By the way , WATER BAPTISM as for Israel ONLY and Paul NEVER preached WATER BAPTISM !!

dan p

 

[Psalm 27]

I believe that the CONTEXT of the book of john is speaking to Israel as John 1:31 was was written too!!

Your thinking as to who John is writing in John 3:5 that Except a man be BORN of WATER and of the Spirit , he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God ?

Your thoughts ?

By the way , WATER BAPTISM as for Israel ONLY and Paul NEVER preached WATER BAPTISM !!

dan p

Good point.
Israel first, Gentiles after. (imo, the entire plan from the beginning)

V5, I believe it means living water, ie, Jesus (jn 4)

'born again'...there MUST be an inward AND outward change in a person who is born again, ie. Of their human nature.

(I had a debate with someone yesterday, about being born again. I said 'when a person is born again, all they want to talk about, is the things of God...nothing else matters')