What would a moderate christian standpoint on homosexuality look like?

[JackRT]

How about, treat other people, just as you would wish them to treat you?

^^^ THIS ^^^

 

[FireDragon76]

Of course everyone thinks they are moderate, and so their own position would be the moderate one. But if you understand moderate not as a specific theological position but how we deal with each other, I'd think that a moderate position would be to accept that there's disagreement among Christians, and be willing to coexist within the Church.

That seems to actually be considered a liberal position, though, now days. For instance, that's the basic stance of my own church on the issue, with only a few caveats: we don't consider discriminating against other people a religious right. But otherwise, we do accept that Lutherans don't agree on this issue.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

No sins can be described for other people. Only for yourself. Sorry about that.
Your claim is baseless.

1 Samuel 16:7 For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

Luke 16:15
"You are the ones who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts.

John 8:15
You judge according to the flesh

Acts 1:24
"Lord, You know everyone's heart.

How exactly do you define "sin?" Is it relative to one's personal and subjective feelings?

I'm a scriptural convert radical lefty. No longer a Biblical Ultra-Conservative.

Great. However, the OP is asking for a moderate position. Not a "radical left" position.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Luther spent far more time ranting about masturbation than he ever did about homosexuality.

Because homosexuals were executed in Luther's time.

The very word "homosexual" did not exist even until the 19th century, before then, it was simply just another sin, one that only some Christians, with very new ideas, severely punished.

Another reason why Luther never ranted about homosexuals. Second, saying that homosexuality was considered to be "just another sin" is false.

• 1532 – Holy Roman Empire makes sodomy punishable by death.[1]
  LGBT history in Germany - Wikipedia

 

[FireDragon76]

Because homosexuals were executed in Luther's time.

Another reason why Luther never ranted about homosexuals. Second, saying that homosexuality was considered to be "just another sin" is false.

• 1532 – Holy Roman Empire makes sodomy punishable by death.[1]
  LGBT history in Germany - Wikipedia

Luther actually did rant about monks engaging in sex with each other in Germany, he considered it a bad influence from Italy, in his mind. But the idea of homosexuality as a stable sexual orientation was completely foreign to him.

 

[SkyWriting]

1. How exactly do you define "sin?" Is it relative to one's personal and subjective feelings?

2. Great. However, the OP is asking for a moderate position. Not a "radical left" position.

1. Yes. Scripture defines it exactly that way.
2. Too bad.

 

[SkyWriting]

Because homosexuals were executed in Luther's time.

Another reason why Luther never ranted about homosexuals. Second, saying that homosexuality was considered to be "just another sin" is false.

• 1532 – Holy Roman Empire makes sodomy punishable by death.[1]
  LGBT history in Germany - Wikipedia

Not do unto others, as you would have them do unto you?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

1. Yes. Scripture defines it exactly that way.

Can you show the reference that specifically says sin is subjectively relative to the individual's feelings?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Not do unto others, as you would have them do unto you?

And I would want people to expose the sin in my life just like I would want someone to point out the booger hanging out of my nose. Because I value the Word of God over my personal feelings or the feelings of others.

 

[Jon Osterman]

Not do unto others, as you would have them do unto you?

Sure. If I ever become homosexual, feel free to condemn me.

 

[SkyWriting]

Sure. If I ever become homosexual, feel free to condemn me.

Let's say I condemn you now for your sexual exploits and remove you from your job and deny your family healthcare and ostracize you from your relatives?

You welcome others to judge your sex antics now?
1. Can we discuss if you wear a condom?
2. How often you have unprotected sex?
3. The age of your partner?
4. How often do you use condoms?
5. What percentage of the time?
6. Is this casual sex?
7. Are you an IV drug user?
8. Is your partner?
9. How many different sex partners have you had in the last 12 months?
10. Does this involve oral sex?
11. Does this involve anal sex?

 

[SkyWriting]

I don't agree with practicing homosexuals being leaders in the church, or the blessing of same-sex relationships.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.
Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.
Galatians 5:14
The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
James 2:8
If you really keep the royal law stated in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.

 

[SkyWriting]

And I would want people to expose the sin in my life just like I would want someone to point out the booger hanging out of my nose. Because I value the Word of God over my personal feelings or the feelings of others.

And the Word of God says to honor others higher than yourself.


1 John 4:20-21
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Romans 15:2
Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Philippians 2:3
Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

 

[Jon Osterman]

Let's say I condemn you now for your sexual exploits and remove you from your job and deny your family healthcare and ostracize you from your relatives?

As I said, you are free to condemn my "sexual exploits" if you like. I don't really care. However, I don't think anyone here is suggesting that homosexuals should be fired from their jobs or denied healthcare. That would be discriminatory. And if their relatives ostracize them, that is the right of their relatives and not your call.

You welcome others to judge your sex antics now?
1. Can we discuss if you wear a condom?
2. How often you have unprotected sex?
3. The age of your partner?
4. How often do you use condoms?
5. What percentage of the time?
6. Is this casual sex?
7. Are you an IV drug user?
8. Is your partner?
9. How many different sex partners have you had in the last 12 months?
10. Does this involve oral sex?
11. Does this involve anal sex?

I am not sure what you are trying to judge. I have actually never worn a condom (is that a problem for you?) so all my sexual interactions with my wife are unprotected. My wife is my own age, and neither of us have ever used drugs. I have had one sexual partner in my entire life, and we don't engage in perversions. Does that satisfy you?

So I don't treat others in ways I would object to be treated.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Let's say I condemn you now for your sexual exploits and remove you from your job and deny your family healthcare and ostracize you from your relatives?

You welcome others to judge your sex antics now?
1. Can we discuss if you wear a condom?
2. How often you have unprotected sex?
3. The age of your partner?
4. How often do you use condoms?
5. What percentage of the time?
6. Is this casual sex?
7. Are you an IV drug user?
8. Is your partner?
9. How many different sex partners have you had in the last 12 months?
10. Does this involve oral sex?
11. Does this involve anal sex?

I think you are confused on the difference between judgement and condemnation.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

And the Word of God says to honor others higher than yourself.


1 John 4:20-21
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Romans 15:2
Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Philippians 2:3
Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

What does this have to do with my post. I honor the word of God over the feelings of people. Facts dont care about feelings. If God said it's a sin, it is a sin regardless of your feelings. It would be unloving to stand by and watch someone walk down a path to hell. If you had a loved one who had a drug addiction, would you remain quiet while they slowly kill themselves? No, I would imagine you would confront them because you loved them. I would want someone to confront me if I was on a path to death. And that is what sin is, a path to death. You are not loving your neighbor by remaining silent about their sin...period. However, nobody here is suggesting any condemnation for homosexuals either. The moderate position is to merely tolerate homosexuality from a legal perspective. However, the moderate perspective will not support, condone, or encourage homosexuality because doing so is to condone sin. Something the Bible explicitly tells us not to do.

 

[mister rogers]

I have been trying to figure this out for quite a while. I want to avoid the extremes if that is possible. So I would not argue against a form of civil partnership for non-christians, but disagree with same sex marriage. I would argue that Christians who wish to have prayer for wholeness including overcoming homosexual desires should be allowed to seek that out and psychotherapy too if they want, but that those who don't want to travel that road celibacy should be encouraged. No one should be forced to go for therapy, either secular or religious. I don't agree with practicing homosexuals being leaders in the church, or the blessing of same-sex relationships. Homosexuals seeking to live celebate lives should not be refused communion. Forgiveness and grace should be extended when people fail.

Does this avoid extremes of both the liberal and conservative sorts?

W

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.
Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.
Galatians 5:14
The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
James 2:8
If you really keep the royal law stated in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.

Here is a data mine of the Bible regarding homosexuality. Find one verse that does not condemn it.

What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?

 

[mister rogers]

Oops, let me try that again.

I wouldnt try to find out what is moderate, right, or left. Only what is Biblical. Don't worry about identifying with the world's standards. If it ends up people categorize you into one of the camps, let it be. Don't fear man.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Oops, let me try that again.

I wouldnt try to find out what is moderate, right, or left. Only what is Biblical. Don't worry about identifying with the world's standards. If it ends up people categorize you into one of the camps, let it be. Don't fear man.

Agreed. What is considered radical left today may be considered moderate tomorrow. But the word of God endures forever.