What Is Paul's Definition of NT Prophecy?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have decided to start my own thread about this, instead of hijacking someone else's.

What I see in 1 Corinthians 14:3, "But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men."

Notice what Paul includes in his definition of prophecy and what he leaves out. He says that New Testament prophecy is for edification (building up faith in Christ), exhortation (to put trust in Christ), and comfort (assurance of God's help in times of trial). Also, further down in the chapter he includes "instruction".

Now, notice what Paul does not include in his definition. He does not include "guidance", nor does he include "prediction". What this means that guidance and prediction are not elements of New Testament prophecy, if we are to accept that Paul is writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

If we examine the type of false prophecies that have caused the most harm to believers, we see that they consist mainly in guidance, both corporate and personal; and prediction of future events (which never actually come to pass). But there have been many true and genuine prophecies that have done much to build up believers' faith in Christ, have motivated them to trust Christ in every circumstance, and given precious comfort to grieving believers, and those struggling with persecution and trials of their faith. Also many good prophecies have included instruction in righteousness in order to keep believers on the path of sound doctrine.

When prophecies are given, they must be evaluated. Paul taught the Thessalonians to "test all things and hold to that which is good." The test is to determine the effect that the prophecy has on the listeners. If a prophecy is given and no one understands what is being said, then the prophecy fails the test, because it has said nothing of substance and therefore falls short of Paul's definition of prophecy. If a prophecy predicts a future event such as "this year there will be a wave of refreshing across the body of Christ with signs, wonders, and miracles" and nothing happens by the end of the year, then it also fails the test because what was predicted never happened.

The Scripture says "31 I am against the false prophets,” says the Lord. “They use their own words and pretend it is a message from me. 32 I am against the prophets who prophesy false dreams,” says the Lord. “They mislead my people with their lies and false teachings! I did not send them or command them to do anything for me. They can’t help the people of Judah at all,” says the Lord. 33 “Suppose the people of Judah, a prophet, or a priest asks you: ‘Jeremiah, what is the message from the Lord?’ You will answer them and say, ‘You are a heavy load to the Lord, and I will throw you down, says the Lord.’" (Jeremiah 23:31-3).

These are very sobering words, because it is very clear that our modern false prophets are not born again if God has declared that He is against them.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The story of Balaam and Balak is very interesting when considering how we hear God's voice. There are those who believe that we must learn to hear God's voice and improve sensitivity to it by practicing on others. One woman teacher (I think at Bethel) advised those wanting to learn to hear God's voice, to approach people, telling them, "I am learning to hear God's voice. Do you mind if I do a bit of practice with you?"

The interesting thing about Balaam is that he was involved in professional divination and earned his living by it. He was not a believer in God. Balak, the king of Moab employed him to curse Israel so that he could fight against Israel and win. When Balaam agreed to seek the Lord for a word, the word of the Lord came very clearly to him right from the outset. There was no mistake it was the Lord speaking to him and he knew it. He did not have to practice hearing God's voice in order to develop his skills. In fact, he could not involve himself in guesswork such as, "I feel that the Lord might be speaking to me..." No, the Lord spoke to him and told him exactly what to say, even though he missed out of on hefty fee and honour from the king.

If a total pagan, involved in divination, resolving to hear God's voice in order to curse Israel on instructions from the king of Moab, hears God speaking clearly and decisively to him and makes him say things supportive of Israel against his own will, then the notion of having to start off with guess work and practice to develop a skill in hearing God's voice is pretty ludicrous. In fact, there is nothing in Scripture that people have to practice the skill of hearing God's voice. All those who heard God's voice heard it clearly and we have the written record of what God said to them.

In the book of Hebrews it says, "In times past, God spoke through His prophets, but in these last days, He speaks through His Son." On the mount of Transfiguration God spoke clearly to Peter, John and James, "This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!" They didn't have to guess that it might have been God's voice. They were in no doubt about it.

These days, if we want to hear God's voice, we need to study what Jesus did and taught, rather than looking for some kind of disembodied voice.

 

[Carl Emerson]

You have agreed that the definition in 1 Cor 14:3 is not exhaustive. You have stated that instruction should be included. How can we be sure then that these 4 complete the understanding.

When Ababus Prophesied in Acts 21 as follows...

10 As we were staying there for some days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 And he came to us and took Paul’s belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, “This is what the Holy Spirit says: ‘In this way the Jews in Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and hand him over to the Gentiles.’”

Was this not a prediction ?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Paul's definition is not going to disagree with the OT, it's going to be the same thing basically since there was no OT vs NT distinction other than stuff that is specific about Christ, and his atonement... not to mention the whole history of canonization.


Funny you should ask this kind of question. Because I was thinking about something very similar but more towards the so called "Five Fold Ministry", and how many Charismatics are trying to make a really active prophetic ministry, similar to what is seen in the Old Testament. I am actually thinking about doing a video on this subject for my fledgling little video ministry but the more I think about this point of view in light of what we actually see in both the literal bible as well as Church history that immediately followed it, I believe this point of view is greatly mistaken.

From what I can tell, in the New Testament the NT prophet plays a much smaller role in the Church than the prophet did for earlier Israel, and I believe I know the reason for this, namely the Incarnation and what it means to us as far as Jesus coming in the flesh, and his taking and training his own followers, and of course the descendant of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost another big factor as well...

The Didache shows an active itinerant prophetic ministry in the time of the Apostolic fathers but much weaker than what modern Charismatics want to bring back.

 

[Mr. M]

Was this not a prediction ?

Merely a confirmation of what he already knew
and steeled his resolve against the opposition
of those who were most concerned for him.
Acts 20:
22 And see, now I go bound in the spirit to Jerusalem,
not knowing the things that will happen to me there,
23 except that the Holy Spirit testifies in every city,
saying that chains and tribulations await me.
24 But none of these things move me; nor do I count my
life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy,
and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus,
to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.

Acts 21:
12 Now when we heard these things, both we and
those from that place pleaded with him not to go
up to Jerusalem.
13 Then Paul answered, What do you mean by
weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready
not only to be bound, but also to die at Jerusalem
for the name of the Lord Jesus.
14 So when he would not be persuaded, we ceased,
saying, “The will of the Lord be done.”

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You have agreed that the definition in 1 Cor 14:3 is not exhaustive. You have stated that instruction should be included. How can we be sure then that these 4 complete the understanding.

When Ababus Prophesied in Acts 21 as follows...

10 As we were staying there for some days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 And he came to us and took Paul’s belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, “This is what the Holy Spirit says: ‘In this way the Jews in Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and hand him over to the Gentiles.’”

Was this not a prediction ?

Agabus was a recognised prophet across the whole body of Christ whose ministry was proved by his prediction of the general famine that came to pass in the days of Claudius.

But the Corinthian believers and us by implication, were not recognised prophets in the same way that Agabus was. These were ordinary believers who engaged in a different type of prophecy which excluded prediction.

We have people in different churches who purport to be prophets either to the nation or to the body of Christ. But these are recognised only within their limited spheres within their own movements. No way they can be compared to Agabus who was universally recognised in all the churches.

Kenneth Copeland asserted that he was in the office of the prophet, and then predicted something that never came to pass. Jeremiah says that so called prophets who dream up stuff in their own minds and take the Lord's name in vain by asserting "thus says the Lord", God is against them, and they will be punished. This means that false prophets who make predictions that don't come to pass are actually not born again and are still in their sins.

It is really sad that most if not all the ones who give false prophecies and record them on Youtube, are not born again and will face punishment at the Judgment. Obviously they have never read what the Lord has said in Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel concerning what He thinks of false prophets. They should be scared when reading those passages. After five decades of being involved in the prophetic, I read those passages and got so spooked that I went to the Lord and repented and told Him that I was not giving any "guesswork" type prophetic words in the future.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

hese are very sobering words, because it is very clear that our modern false prophets are not born again if God has declared that He is against them.

I agree, although of late I've been more concerned about the "filthy lucre" end of things and how so many big churches and preachers are very materialistic. I love all the people teaching on things like tithing, seed offerings etc. but always seem to avoid the 3 separate NT passages that deal with that when it comes to ministerial standards.

 

[Mr. M]

What I see in 1 Corinthians 14:3, "But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men."

Paul also goes on to say:
1 Corinthians 14:31 For you can all prophesy one by one,
that all may learn and all may be encouraged.

The context of the chapter is instruction for group
fellowship that allows the Holy Spirit to be at the
helm of the meeting.
Paul does not seem to be trying to define prophecy,
so much as describe what to expect from the ministery
of the Comforter among us.
Interesting note:
Acts 4:
36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed
Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted,
The son of consolation,) a Levite,
and of the country of Cyprus,
37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money,
and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Now Barnabas means son of prophecy/a prophet.
And yet, we are told that by the apostolic
interpretation, son of consolation.
I see this also as a focus on the ministry
of the Paraclete.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Agabus was a recognised prophet across the whole body of Christ whose ministry was proved by his prediction of the general famine that came to pass in the days of Claudius.

But the Corinthian believers and us by implication, were not recognised prophets in the same way that Agabus was. These were ordinary believers who engaged in a different type of prophecy which excluded prediction.

We have people in different churches who purport to be prophets either to the nation or to the body of Christ. But these are recognised only within their limited spheres within their own movements. No way they can be compared to Agabus who was universally recognised in all the churches.

Kenneth Copeland asserted that he was in the office of the prophet, and then predicted something that never came to pass. Jeremiah says that so called prophets who dream up stuff in their own minds and take the Lord's name in vain by asserting "thus says the Lord", God is against them, and they will be punished. This means that false prophets who make predictions that don't come to pass are actually not born again and are still in their sins.

It is really sad that most if not all the ones who give false prophecies and record them on Youtube, are not born again and will face punishment at the Judgment. Obviously they have never read what the Lord has said in Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel concerning what He thinks of false prophets. They should be scared when reading those passages. After five decades of being involved in the prophetic, I read those passages and got so spooked that I went to the Lord and repented and told Him that I was not giving any "guesswork" type prophetic words in the future.

I guess your perspective is heavily influenced by the excesses of the modern prophetic movement which you repeatedly refer to.

It seems this has developed to the degree that the theology you have settled on precludes the possibility of the genuine.

This is very common in Christianity - rationalising the absence of the life by theologising it's passing.

I notice that so far you have chosen not to comment on what happened in Mexico.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I agree, although of late I've been more concerned about the "filthy lucre" end of things and how so many big churches and preachers are very materialistic. I love all the people teaching on things like tithing, seed offerings etc. but always seem to avoid the 3 separate NT passages that deal with that when it comes to ministerial standards.

One of the things the Lord speaks against the false prophets is that they do it for personal gain. The prosperity prophets have made a money-making business out of the office of prophet and healing evangelist. They follow the path of Balaam, who made his living out of practicing divination. False prophecy is, in reality, divination, as well as taking the Lord's name in vain. Actually, taking the Lord's name in vain is a worse breach of God's moral law than murder and adultery.

 

[ARBITER01]

It's possible that one of these days you will figure out the difference between a prophet and a prophesier. I'm not laying money down on it right yet though.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Merely a confirmation of what he already knew

‘In this way the Jews in Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and hand him over to the Gentiles.’

Not a prediction ??? Really.... .......Right

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I guess your perspective is heavily influenced by the excesses of the modern prophetic movement which you repeatedly refer to.

It seems this has developed to the degree that the theology you have settled on precludes the possibility of the genuine.

This is very common in Christianity - rationalising the absence of the life by theologising it's passing.

I notice that so far you have chosen not to comment on what happened in Mexico.

The reality is that all of the prophetic movement that is shown on Youtube and prophetic websites is false. Also, my perspective is based on Hebrews 1:1, which says that God is no longer speaking through prophets, but through His Son. That means His voice is heard through the teaching and practice of Jesus in the Gospels, and the Holy Spirit inspired writing of the Apostles in the Epistles. Because the voice of the Holy Spirit is the same as the voice of Jesus, because the Holy Spirit will say only what Jesus tells Him to say, then the inspired writing of Paul, John, Peter, and Jude are in essence, the Holy Spirit speaking what Jesus has told Him to say through those Apostles. So, if we want to see what true prophecy really is, we read what Jesus and the Holy Spirit have said in the Gospels and Epistles. We can also go back into the Old Testament and read what the Pre-incarnate Son of God has said, directly or through the Prophets. This is because everyone who heard the voice of God in the Old Testament has heard the pre-incarnate Son of God speaking. In effect, it has been the same Person speaking in the Old Testament and the Gospels.

I will view the Mexico video and will get back to you.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It's possible that one of these days you will figure out the difference between a prophet and a prophesier. I'm not laying money down on it right yet though.

Actually one of the best examples of true prophecy is what the pre-incarnate Son of God said to Balaam when the latter tried to curse Israel, but had to speak what the Lord told him instead.

 

[Mr. M]

‘In this way the Jews in Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and hand him over to the Gentiles.’

Not a prediction ??? Really.... .......Right

Telling someone something they already know
is not a prediction. When you are finished
scratching your head, read the scriptures I
posted to support my statement. Feel free to
respond without the mockery by sharing your
view on what the text is saying....really.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Also, my perspective is based on Hebrews 1:1, which says that God is no longer speaking through prophets, but through His Son.

This reference is not to the church, otherwise prophetic gifts would not have been given, which they were.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Telling someone something they already know
is not a prediction. When you are finished
scratching your head, read the scriptures I
posted to support my statement. Feel free to
respond without the mockery by sharing your
view on what the text is saying....really.

Let the readers decide...

Is ‘In this way the Jews in Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and hand him over to the Gentiles.’ a prediction or not ?????

 

[Mr. M]

Actually one of the best examples of true prophecy is what the pre-incarnate Son of God said to Balaam when the latter tried to curse Israel, but had to speak what the Lord told him instead.

What is often overlooked is that the first ministry
of a prophet is intercession, not prediction.
Genesis 20:7 Now therefore, restore the man’s wife;
for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and
you shall live. But if you do not restore her, know that
you shall surely die, you and all who are yours.
How is it that Abraham is identified
as the first prophet?
In the previous chapter, he famously intercedes for wicked
Sodom and Gomorrah. I would not receive a prophecy
directed towards me personally without knowing them
to be an intercessor.
There has been times when I was in long prayer
and fasting over something, and felt I was ready
to act, and I received a prophetic word of knowledge
from someone I was in fellowship that knew nothing
of the issue, but confirmed what I already had received
in my spirit. This is what I mean by receiving
as a confirmation, Carl. I always speak from experience.
People who seek out prophecies for themselves from
someone who advertizes themselves to be a prophet
are engaging in wicked deceptions.
It is akin to the words of Christ, when He states:
"A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign."

 

[Mr. M]

Let the readers decide...

Let them read the scriptures, then decide.
Opinions be damned.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What is often overlooked is that the first ministry
of a prophet is intercession, not prediction.
Genesis 20:7 Now therefore, restore the man’s wife;
for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and
you shall live. But if you do not restore her, know that
you shall surely die, you and all who are yours.
How is it that Abraham is identified
as the first prophet?
In the previous chapter, he famously intercedes for wicked
Sodom and Gomorrah. I would not receive a prophecy
directed towards me personally without knowing them
to be an intercessor.
There has been times when I was in long prayer
and fasting over something, and felt I was ready
to act, and I received a prophetic word of knowledge
from someone I was in fellowship that knew nothing
of the issue, but confirmed what I already had received
in my spirit. This is what I mean by receiving
as a confirmation, Carl. I always speak from experience.
People who seek out prophecies for themselves from
someone who advertizes themselves to be a prophet
are engaging in wicked deceptions.
It is akin to the words of Christ, when He states:
"A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign."

Yes, the above to me is sound...

Except we see record of both intercession and prediction.