"Till Death Do Us Part" (Until Faith 2 Believe In It Dies)-How Much Faith 4 Marriage?

[Gxg (G²)]

Shalom!!!

There was another discussion elsewhere that was occuring on the issue of marriage/divorce which I thought was interesting. For when it comes to issues pertaining to perserverance/faith, I've often heard it where women will stay in relationships believing "God'll change him--even if he harms me" when it comes to domestic violence....or for that matter, a spouse cheating on another either with pornagraphy, emotional adultery or physical adultery via sleeping around---with the spouse saying "I'm going to stick it out and believe for the Lord to come through...".....and even further, going into a marriage after having messed up in purity but seeking to be honorable in staying with the individual (as well as the child, should the woman get pregnant)....and in fact, Creflo Dollar discussed the issue in-depth before on the last one, as seen here in Creflo Dollar - The Obligation of Marriage / Reviving Sanctification Part 1
....

"Creflo Dollar - Steps 2 Managing Life Choosing a Mate Pt 6b" ( YouTube - Creflo Dollar - Steps 2 Managing Life Choosing a Mate Pt 6 ).......

YouTube - Creflo Dollar - Steps 2 Managing Life Choosing a Mate Pt 6a

YouTube - Creflo Dollar - Steps 2 Managing Life Choosing a Mate Pt 6b

And of course, Joyce Myers on the issue of Respect within a Marriage, as seen in Respect In Marriage Pt. 1

And indeed, many times God does get a hold on the heart of the person who is in deep sin in a marriage/turn them around for his glory. The spouses who stayed knew that their prayers/refusal to see the mate be abandoned were apart of what made the difference---as the Word makes clear that even God hopes.

However, many times where it didn't happen---with destruction following. And on the issue, I was curious to those of you in WOF (as well as outside of it) whether or not you'd think it a matter of having faith/trust in God to remain in a relationship where there's destructive habits occuring..

If any of the things mentioned were occuring in the lives of your friends/family, would it be a matter of trusting the Lord to stay in it/endure through prayer---or would it be a matter of being faithless to walk away?


Of course, in going into the issue, there are some basic things to consider...

God is love 1 John 4:7-9 / 1 John 4---and on the issue of what love is, as Faith is completely about divine trust/focus centered on the Person of the Lord--- (1 John 3:2 ), it's more than rational (IMHO) to say that God is also the essence of HOPE and FAITH, as love is also those things as well by nature:

1 Corinthians 13:14Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

1 Corinthians 13:13
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
1 Corinthians 13:12-13 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 13
​

The very definition of love is involving hoping....and with that established, it'd seem that God ALWAYS TRUSTS and ALWAYS HOPES---just as much as He is not proud and does not delight in evil alongside all of the other characteristics of Love. The Divine Trinity, IMHO, cannot be without Faith and Trust if the nature of Love is to be held intact completely...for He sees the end result of us even when we're messed up/still chooses to encourage us/call us what we're gonna be. He still chooses to go into hopeless situations and bring hope. He still chooses mercy and invests. God is as much the Essence of Faith/Trust as He is Love--as the 2 earlier traits are nothing more but outworkings of LOVE.

But on the same token, plenty of times where God's love was clearly TESTED/rejected...and it did seem as if God often chose to bail out on what He intended to originally do when it seemed His people were unfaithful to Him....as seen in the many instances where adultery and prostitution are applied to Israel, Babylon, etc. Some instances even showed the Lord calling upon men to even divorce their wives due to issues of them not being Pure Jews, as seen in Ezra 9-10---and for other examples of God seeming to show not enduring with His people.

Jeremiah 3:1-10
Jeremiah 5:1-6
Jeremiah 5:7-13
Jeremiah 7:8-11
Jeremiah 9:2-3…
Jeremiah 13:22-27
Ezekiel 23
Ezekiel

Hosea 1:2
Hosea 3:1-3
Hosea 7:11-13
Hosea 4:10-12
Hosea 7:4,
Hosea 6-7
Hosea 2:2-3,
Hosea 5-7
Hosea 2:8-10
Hosea 13
Hosea 2:14-17
Hosea 19-20
Hosea 23

Isaiah 50:1
[ Israel's Sin and the Servant's Obedience ] This is what the LORD says: "Where is your mother's certificate of divorce with which I sent her away? Or to which of my creditors did I sell you? Because of your sins you were sold; because of your transgressions your mother was sent away.
Isaiah 50

Jeremiah 3:8
I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.
Jeremiah 3

Matthew 5:30-32 / Matthew 5

Divorce

31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'[a] 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.


Malachi 2:16
"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
Malachi 2:15-17 /Malachi 2

Matthew 19:4

Divorce

1When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there. 3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"
4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'[b]? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

7"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"
8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."


11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

1 Corinthians 7:38
To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. 12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
​

And likewise, as the standard for marriage is that divorce/walking away is allowed when others lose faith, I do wonder at times how it is the case that people getting a divorce from their spouses and leaving are often shunned by other believers in all camps for not "having enough faith/endurance to MAKE IT WORK....". Many WOF Circles where it was a matter of being "godly" if one chose to remain in a marriage that seemed to be extremely damaging...and if they wanted out, there was no outlet...and yet, for others, it seemed as if they stayed in--with their faith paying off.

What are your thoughts? Do you think that it's a matter of "faith" to remain within a marriage that's doing poorly? Or would it be one of wisdom to walk away? If any of you have had similar situations, what did you do? Would love to hear sometime...
__________________

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Shalom.....

 

[Jedi.Kep]

And indeed, many times God does get a hold on the heart of the person who is in deep sin in a marriage/turn them around for his glory. The spouses who stayed knew that their prayers/refusal to see the mate be abandoned were apart of what made the difference---as the Word makes clear that even God hopes.

However, many times where it didn't happen---with destruction following. And on the issue, I was curious to those of you in WOF (as well as outside of it) whether or not you'd think it a matter of having faith/trust in God to remain in a relationship where there's destructive habits occuring..

Hey G. I found your thread and I'll respond here too. Maybe for the benefit of someone reading. Who knows?

I'm one of those who prayed for my spouse to repent and stayed with it, even after she committed adultery. I prayed and cried out to God, and she ended up leaving anyway. Did I have faith? Yes. Did she? No.

Is it a matter of having faith/trust in God to remain in a relationship where there are destructive habits? Absolutely. I was surprised how much more I understood Jesus' death and what he faced. I was in a relationship. I loved this woman and had been married for about 16 years. Yet, she did not love me and hurt me very badly many times. The emotional scars alone can be devestating.

Going through the divorce like I did proved the old saying, "Love has no meaning when love's a feeling. Love's a fact when it's an act." To word it another way, Love is a choice. "I will love you, even when you do things that show you don't love me." I chose to love my spouse. It was a matter of trusting God.

"Well, if you were in faith, then she would have stayed!" No. Not necessarily. Her will was involved. God won't force his will on another. He respects our freedom of will and our freedom to choose life or reject it. In my case, her will was contrary to God's will and she choose to walk away from the marriage and the Lord. My faith couldn't change her will. God laid out the choice before her and she choose to walk away.

If any of the things mentioned were occuring in the lives of your friends/family, would it be a matter of trusting the Lord to stay in it/endure through prayer---or would it be a matter of being faithless to walk away?

Every case of divorce is different and there are many things to consider. Our Father God knows the heart and only by His Word and the leading of the Spirit can we navigate through those types of storms successfully. Some people know to walk away immediately, and others will stay and pray through. Each case must be considered prayfully and no blanket statements can be made.

As I prayed, there came a day when I knew down in my spirit by the Holy Spirit, that it was over and she wasn't coming back. I remember that day very well. Did I stop praying? No. I continued to obey the written Word I knew and continued to pray for a miracle. I knew I was doing the right thing.

And likewise, as the standard for marriage is that divorce/walking away is allowed when others lose faith, I do wonder at times how it is the case that people getting a divorce from their spouses and leaving are often shunned by other believers in all camps for not "having enough faith/endurance to MAKE IT WORK....". Many WOF Circles where it was a matter of being "godly" if one chose to remain in a marriage that seemed to be extremely damaging...and if they wanted out, there was no outlet...and yet, for others, it seemed as if they stayed in--with their faith paying off.

I can imagine what my former WoF pastor may have thought. He probabaly thought since I left the church that I brought this mess on myself (I left the church because he stole another man's wife!). And as I talked with people in my current Pentecostal church, some of them 'downed' me as well. It was interesting to hear the different responses from people. Some people were visibly uncomfortable when speaking to me. It was an interesting learning experience. Being shunned. Being accepted by others who have suffered divorce. Being an example of the faith. All very much a learning experience.

What are your thoughts? Do you think that it's a matter of "faith" to remain within a marriage that's doing poorly? Or would it be one of wisdom to walk away? If any of you have had similar situations, what did you do? Would love to hear sometime...

As I said before, every case must be prayfully examined. Some can stand in faith by the leading of the Lord and save their spouse. Others by Biblical precident can walk away. Both can be right.

Prayer, a good Christian circle of friends who can encourage you, good counseling with a pastor or two or three, and the leading of the Father's Holy Spirit are all absolutely necessary to make it through such a difficult time.

Blessings to you DG and to all who read.

 

[John1032]

Marriages fall apart because the “marriage vows” made by and between the two people were not worth the paper that they were printed on, they were just words of the mouth and not of the heart.

Adultery is the main offender of most marriage break-ups, but we never seem to delve into and find the "root cause" of the break-up.

Why did one of the partners commit adultery or pornography? Well, no doubt both partners are at fault.

The two main commandments of marriage is to love our wives and the wives to submit to their husband. You got to be kidding, because if that was in force in a marriage, there wouldn’t be a break-up, would there?

Do each partner fulfil HIS Commandments? NO!

Do each partner share with each other and sit around and discuss things? NO!

When there is an argument, do each partner say or think that they are wrong and their partner is right and so? NO! Good old “PRIDE” destroys!

When they find who was right or who was wrong, do they say that they are sorry and mean it from their heart, and not just only words? NO!

Do they ever say to each other: "Please forgive me" or say: "I forgive you"? NO!

Do they ever say to each other: "I love you", and mean it from the bottom of their heart? NO!

The reason why Christian marriages fail is because PRIDE rules their lives.

The basic fundamentals of marriage is a life of rights and wrongs, and if your are not loving your wife, and your wife is not submitting to the Headship of the family, then the good old evil one, the enemy, and Satan's forces can set up shop in the marriage, and lead those floundering partners into another sin---second marriage.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Marriages fall apart because the “marriage vows” made by and between the two people were not worth the paper that they were printed on, they were just words of the mouth and not of the heart.

Adultery is the main offender of most marriage break-ups, but we never seem to delve into and find the "root cause" of the break-up.

Why did one of the partners commit adultery or pornography? Well, no doubt both partners are at fault.

The two main commandments of marriage is to love our wives and the wives to submit to their husband. You got to be kidding, because if that was in force in a marriage, there wouldn’t be a break-up, would there?

Do each partner fulfil HIS Commandments? NO!

Do each partner share with each other and sit around and discuss things? NO!

When there is an argument, do each partner say or think that they are wrong and their partner is right and so? NO! Good old “PRIDE” destroys!

When they find who was right or who was wrong, do they say that they are sorry and mean it from their heart, and not just only words? NO!

Do they ever say to each other: "Please forgive me" or say: "I forgive you"? NO!

Do they ever say to each other: "I love you", and mean it from the bottom of their heart? NO!

The reason why Christian marriages fail is because PRIDE rules their lives.

The basic fundamentals of marriage is a life of rights and wrongs, and if your are not loving your wife, and your wife is not submitting to the Headship of the family, then the good old evil one, the enemy, and Satan's forces can set up shop in the marriage, and lead those floundering partners into another sin---second marriage.

How would you give that advise to singles? because satan can set up shop within the body of christ also when there is no voluntary submission to each other. I think there needs to be death to the old self.

 

[John1032]

How would you give that advise to singles? because satan can set up shop within the body of christ also when there is no voluntary submission to each other. I think there needs to be death to the old self.

Hi Evnagelica,

My advice to all singles is to really get together and discuss why they want to marry each other.

 

[lismore]

IMO its a matter of doctrine.

The loosing your salvation doctrine has become popular.

When Paul talks about the marriage covenant he uses the example of Christ and the church, to show that just as the salvation covenant is unbreakable, so is marriage. But churches no longer preach that the salvation covenant is unbreakable!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Matthew 19
4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Patterning that to Christ and the church is like showing that Jesus left the Father and the New Jerusalem to come to become one with His bride. God Himself has joined them together and mere mankind cannot undo what God has done.

Who is Jesus' bride that no one can take away from Him? also referred to as New Jerusalem who's builder and maker is God? Who are they who have salvation? the new creation

2 Cor 5:17
So if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation;

Gal 3:28
There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus.

2 Cor 6:2:
15 For in Christ Jesus neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision; but new creation. 16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace upon them and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

They are those who are in Christ. So what does it mean to be in Christ? It means those who ABIDE at the Bethel of Jesus where the ladder to heaven goes both ways.

As to marriage within the home or with Christ and the church, it depends what it's established on. If it's built on solid foundation of the Rock of Christ it won't fall. Everything else is built on sifting sand.

Ga 4:26
But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.

Heavenly foundations free up worries about salvation.The way is to practice "not I, but Christ." imo, trusting Jesus to work thru temper etc. because some of these things can only be cast out with prayer. Stand and watch for answered prayer.

Heb 11:10
for he looked for the city which hath the foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

The Jerusalem is our mother; it signifies the Church of Christ, the metropolis of Christianity, or rather the state of liberty into which all true believers are brought. Jesus has cleaved to us to be one with Him so that when the time comes He will bring us as the prodigal daughter home.

Gal 4: 26.
But Jerusalem which is above. The spiritual Jerusalem; the true church of God. Jerusalem was the place where God was worshipped, and hence it became synonymous with the word church, or is used to represent the people of God.

The word rendered "above" (anw) means, properly, up above, that which is above; heavenly, celestial,

Collossians 3
Rules for Holy Living
1Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.

John 8:23
23But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world

Here Jesus means, the heavenly or celestial Jerusalem. And abiding there with Him is the equivalent of the marraige partnering IF they have the Rock as the foundation. Jesus at this time is unequally yoked just as many marriages are. And let's face it Jesus goes thru no less with each and every one of us.

Re 21:2:
"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God, out of heaven."

Heb 12:22:
"Ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem."

Here it is used to denote the church, as being of heavenly origin.

Is free. The spirit of the gospel is that of freedom.

It is freedom from sin, freedom from the bondage of rites and customs.

Galatians 4:7
7So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

And free from worry about salvation issues.

Bottom line is the abiding. Not just Christ in me, but me in Christ as well.

That's what needs to be preached,, not easypleasy salvation.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Never got to say thanks to everyone who chose to respond