This was an interesting read...

[PloverWing]

I have no idea what good mentoring of young women would look like in the church -- though I'd be interested to see what you're able to develop in your church. My experience wasn't as bad as u2spicy's, and I was able to go into marriage expecting an egalitarian arrangement, but the church was no help. The instruction I did get from church (and from the Christian K-12 school I attended) was strongly toward women submitting to husbands who are their spiritual leaders; no ordination of women; and encouragement of men and women to follow traditional gender roles. (In my Christian middle school, boys weren't allowed to take home ec, and girls weren't allowed to take shop.)

As I moved away from views like this, my feeling was always that I was fighting the church to some degree. My current church, thankfully, affirms women in ministry and permits egalitarian marriages. Still, as progressive as the Episcopal church is, I think of it as neutral on this issue -- the church no longer restricts women. It's neutral, rather than negative, and that's great. But it's hard for me to picture what the church would look like if it took steps to actively affirm and mentor women in positive ways -- to learn how to care for our emotional well-being, to learn how to be strong and healthy in the presence of those who try to dominate us, and so on, the various traits that were in Paidiske's original linked post.

 

[PloverWing]

An additional thought: I'd really like to see churches develop marriage classes/mentoring/seminars/whatever that are appropriate for egalitarian marriages. Most of the religious material I've seen on marriage is based on the idea that women are like This, men are like That, so here's how the two different species of humanity should get along. This doesn't help if the two partners don't fit gender stereotypes. It's worse of the religious material assumes a hierarchical relationship.

So, classes/mentoring that start from an egalitarian assumption, and then teach young couples how to have good marriages, would be a valuable addition to what churches do.

 

[Paidiske]

I use the Prepare/Enrich material for marriage preparation, and find it good in that it doesn't make gender-stereotypical assumptions. But other things can be difficult; when I first started doing weddings, I wanted to give each couple a little book of prayers for marriage; and I couldn't find anything in that vein that wasn't totally hierarchical (you know, the women's prayers might be "Lord, help me to learn that your will for me is to submit to my husband in everything..." where the men's might be "Lord, help me be a strong leader...") After I'd found a few things like that I gave up; I couldn't in good conscience give those out!

Spice, I realised i didn't answer your question about what kind of mentoring I'd like to see, and the answer is, I'm not sure. I think it'd vary greatly from church to church. I think it's more likely to be effective if it's one on one or a very small group talking informally than a formal class, but that's probably just my preferred way of working, too!

 

[Zoii]

Lately I've been thinking about the conflict I have with Christianity and my identity as a female. I think about just what makes me female (as opposed to human) apart from my anatomy. I think about the doctrines that are thrown at me that collide with my identity. I feel them constraining and crushing me. And if truly following a christian life is that I have to be crushed then Ive been thinking what it would be like to live a single life. I can still have children and love them and be fulfilled. But not being married will free me from a life that I just can't reconcile with the concepts I am expected to abide by... to follow not lead.... to bow my head in deference not be proud of who i am....to submit and not partner.... to see the world through the lens of patriarchy. This isnt something I can be part of.

 

[Dave-W]

I can still have children and love them and be fulfilled. But not being married will free me from a life that I just can reconcile with the concepts I am expected to abide by...

There is the morality issue that disallows all sexual activity unless you are married.

Do you plan to adopt?

 

[Paidiske]

That's the thing you wanted to address from that post, Dave?

Zoii, part of the reason for this Egalitarian forum is that not everyone buys into the kind of patriarchal Christianity that's being thrown at you. It is possible to be a Christian woman, to be married, to exercise leadership, to have a strong identity, to work in partnership with men in the home, in the church, and in the workplace.

I can tell you that with complete confidence, because I'm living it. Not without ever being challenged (mostly on the internet ) but I can put those challenges aside and get on with it. So far they've slowed me down, but they've never stopped me. If that's the Christian path that you can walk with integrity, it is open to you, too.

 

[Dave-W]

That's the thing you wanted to address from that post, Dave?

From that particular post - yes.

As a man I could make some other suggestions, but she is in no place to hear or receive it. I fear she has been seriously hurt and saying anything beyond that will just re-open serious wounds. I think you are in a better place to be able to minister to her.

 

[Zoii]

Please dont discuss what you believe are personal things about me in an open forum. What Ive disclosed in my beliefs is all i invited comment on

 

[mkgal1]

Zoii, part of the reason for this Egalitarian forum is that not everyone buys into the kind of patriarchal Christianity that's being thrown at you. It is possible to be a Christian woman, to be married, to exercise leadership, to have a strong identity, to work in partnership with men in the home, in the church, and in the workplace.

Exactly. Those boxes you mentioned, Zoii, have frustrated (and restricted) a lot of people...but there's also a lot that have realized that it's not God that's doing the restricting. Likewise.....men are also able to live in a more flexible way by shedding these ideas that restrict people. I know of a few stay-at-home dads that are excellent at what they do.