There ARE absolute moral laws prescribed by our Creator

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Im looking for a Debate Partner who holds the position of Moral Relativism and who doesn't believe there are absolute moral laws to live by . I, on the other hand, most certainly do and I believe it is provable .

If interested in debating this issue, I shall go first espousing my affirmative position that there are not only absolute moral laws ... but they are prescribed to Mankind by a Moral Law Prescriber (viz. God) .

The standard CF debate rules apply, except that each Debater will have up to 5,000 words max. (per posting) to use if he/she so wishes .

I am available to start this Debate on 6-10-14 and can make my first Post on this date (or later if you need it to start later) .

Contact me if interested.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I would agree to this debate as the only moral relativist here on CF that I'm even aware of (there's gotta be someone else right?) but I'm unclear what the topic is.

Are you saying that objective morals merely exist and they come from god...or are you saying they exist, come from god, and you can prove/demonstrate this is some way? It's a rather important distinction.

 

[BL2KTN]

I might take it up with you, but not at 5,000 words a post. That's insane.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

I would agree to this debate as the only moral relativist here on CF that I'm even aware of (there's gotta be someone else right?) but I'm unclear what the topic is.

Are you saying that objective morals merely exist and they come from god...or are you saying they exist, come from god, and you can prove/demonstrate this is some way? It's a rather important distinction.

Ill accept your offer to debate then. , and will have the Mod set up a room for us.

I will present the case that objective morals exist, they can only come from a higher moral Source (viz Creator) , and they are instilled in each and every Human Being on Earth.

Attn : Mark the Moderator...please go ahead and set up a room for us. Let us know once its all set. Ill make my first post on or before 6-10-14. Thanks, David.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ill accept your offer to debate then. , and will have the Mod set up a room for us.

I will present the case that objective morals exist, they can only come from a higher moral Source (viz Creator) , and they are instilled in each and every Human Being on Earth.

Attn : Mark the Moderator...please go ahead and set up a room for us. Let us know once its all set. Ill make my first post on or before 6-10-14. Thanks, David.

Sounds good to me. To be clear, you aren't making a case that objective morals exist and it's provable...you're just making an argument that they exist. I will be arguing against this position. Lovely.

I will only ask that you be sure to use a working definition of the basic terms in your first post. The terms being "objective", "moral", and "god"...no need to be coy with this "creator" business...we all know you mean something like god. Please pm me before your first post as I'll likely forget I agreed to this before this evening.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Sounds good to me. To be clear, you aren't making a case that objective morals exist and it's provable...you're just making an argument that they exist. I will be arguing against this position. Lovely.

I will only ask that you be sure to use a working definition of the basic terms in your first post. The terms being "objective", "moral", and "god"...no need to be coy with this "creator" business...we all know you mean something like god. Please pm me before your first post as I'll likely forget I agreed to this before this evening.

Yes...that they exist with some proof thrown in for good measure.

Ill define those 3 words you ask me to define.

(This 'Creator' isn't a business....its a required personal intelligent Being who transcends the Universe he created which occupies highly personal, intelligent, and information rich specified complexity as effects --- I don't know of a Natural Cause or Force that does that . If you do, please let me know so I can adjust my Faith to match yours ; this particular issue was covered in a different CF Formal Debate recently).

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Yes...that they exist with some proof thrown in for good measure.

Ill define those 3 words you ask me to define.

(This 'Creator' isn't a business....its a required personal intelligent Being who transcends the Universe he created which occupies highly personal, intelligent, and information rich specified complexity as effects --- I don't know of a Natural Cause or Force that does that . If you do, please let me know so I can adjust my Faith to match yours ; this particular issue was covered in a different CF Formal Debate recently).

Ana the Ist, are you good with these definitions; I want to make sure that you both are on the same page with terms?

Also I would like to suggest a smaller word limit on the posts for a few reasons. Shorter posts are more readable by the average observer, so it increases your audience, and stimulates more discussion in the peanut gallery. Shorter posts make us get to the point quicker; wordy posts can tend to make too many points, so the opponent can not respond to all of the points made, and still have room to make points of their own. Shorter posts, faster turnaround, everyone stays interested.

5000 words have been proposed for three rounds, or 15000 words each. I would like to make it 1500 words for 10 rounds; still a maximum of 15000 words.

I'm good with everything else.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes...that they exist with some proof thrown in for good measure.

Ill define those 3 words you ask me to define.

(This 'Creator' isn't a business....its a required personal intelligent Being who transcends the Universe he created which occupies highly personal, intelligent, and information rich specified complexity as effects --- I don't know of a Natural Cause or Force that does that . If you do, please let me know so I can adjust my Faith to match yours ; this particular issue was covered in a different CF Formal Debate recently).

Whoa...you're setting the bar really really low here, Dave. I don't know if you're doing it to be obtuse or just leave yourself a lot of breathing room. I'm not going to ask you to prove your creator exists...so don't worry about that, but I do need a starting point at least. I'll need to know something about him so we can decide if these moral laws are even his. Is he perfect, imperfect, smart, moronic, lazy, efficient, gay, straight....something?

And at least throw in a definition of objective so I know what page we're starting on. I'm the one going in blind here. I'm sure that first argument is all worked out in your head already.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ana the Ist, are you good with these definitions; I want to make sure that you both are on the same page with terms?

Also I would like to suggest a smaller word limit on the posts for a few reasons. Shorter posts are more readable by the average observer, so it increases your audience, and stimulates more discussion in the peanut gallery. Shorter posts make us get to the point quicker; wordy posts can tend to make too many points, so the opponent can not respond to all of the points made, and still have room to make points of their own. Shorter posts, faster turnaround, everyone stays interested.

5000 words have been proposed for three rounds, or 15000 words each. I would like to make it 1500 words for 10 rounds; still a maximum of 15000 words.

I'm good with everything else.

Lol honestly I could probably do this in 1000 words or less but it sounds fine to me. 10 rounds sounds like a lot but I'm good.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Whoa...you're setting the bar really really low here, Dave. I don't know if you're doing it to be obtuse or just leave yourself a lot of breathing room. I'm not going to ask you to prove your creator exists...so don't worry about that, but I do need a starting point at least. I'll need to know something about him so we can decide if these moral laws are even his. Is he perfect, imperfect, smart, moronic, lazy, efficient, gay, straight....something?

And at least throw in a definition of objective so I know what page we're starting on. I'm the one going in blind here. I'm sure that first argument is all worked out in your head already.

Lol honestly I could probably do this in 1000 words or less but it sounds fine to me. 10 rounds sounds like a lot but I'm good.

I'll wait for David to clarify and respond before I go ahead.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Whoa...you're setting the bar really really low here, Dave. I don't know if you're doing it to be obtuse or just leave yourself a lot of breathing room. I'm not going to ask you to prove your creator exists...so don't worry about that, but I do need a starting point at least. I'll need to know something about him so we can decide if these moral laws are even his. Is he perfect, imperfect, smart, moronic, lazy, efficient, gay, straight....something?

And at least throw in a definition of objective so I know what page we're starting on. I'm the one going in blind here. I'm sure that first argument is all worked out in your head already.

Objective : Opposite of a subjective viewpoint as in just someones opinion ---- appeal to a high standard which represents the best or epitomie .
Moral : Righteous behavior as determined by an objective standard of right from wrong.
God: Personal theistic Creator ... a perfect, moral , loving infinite Being .

These definitions should be good enough for our Debate .

In order to make our points succinctly and convincingly, I would like to have the option of using UP TO 5,000 words per post (3 posts per person) ..although it is very likely that the maximum wont be reached. Once you get typing away and your thoughts start flowing....its easy to blow thru words like crazy.

Please let me know if you are in agreement to this. If not, then Id like the prerogative to seek out a different Debate Partner (with no offense to you) . Thanks, David.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Objective : Opposite of a subjective viewpoint as in just someones opinion ---- appeal to a high standard which represents the best or epitomie .
Moral : Righteous behavior as determined by an objective standard of right from wrong.
God: Personal theistic Creator ... a perfect, moral , loving infinite Being .

These definitions should be good enough for our Debate .

In order to make our points succinctly and convincingly, I would like to have the option of using UP TO 5,000 words per post (3 posts per person) ..although it is very likely that the maximum wont be reached. Once you get typing away and your thoughts start flowing....its easy to blow thru words like crazy.

Please let me know if you are in agreement to this. If not, then Id like the prerogative to seek out a different Debate Partner (with no offense to you) . Thanks, David.

No those definitions will do just fine...I don't mean to be tiresome here I just like a little clarity before starting. It seems these debates start with far too little clarity far too often.

We can begin at any time.

Just out of curiosity, would be against forum rules for me to slander/blaspheme/insult the "creator" David is using since it doesn't seem to carry any overt connection to Christianity?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Objective : Opposite of a subjective viewpoint as in just someones opinion ---- appeal to a high standard which represents the best or epitomie .
Moral : Righteous behavior as determined by an objective standard of right from wrong.
God: Personal theistic Creator ... a perfect, moral , loving infinite Being .

These definitions should be good enough for our Debate .

In order to make our points succinctly and convincingly, I would like to have the option of using UP TO 5,000 words per post (3 posts per person) ..although it is very likely that the maximum wont be reached. Once you get typing away and your thoughts start flowing....its easy to blow thru words like crazy.

Please let me know if you are in agreement to this. If not, then Id like the prerogative to seek out a different Debate Partner (with no offense to you) . Thanks, David.

Also yes, word count doesn't really matter to me. I like Mark's idea of shortening it for appeal, and as I tend to be really succinct I don't see myself getting anywhere near 5k words a post, but I wouldn't want you to feel cheated Dave. Take all the words you need.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

No those definitions will do just fine...I don't mean to be tiresome here I just like a little clarity before starting. It seems these debates start with far too little clarity far too often.

We can begin at any time.

I will set this up, either tomorrow morning or evening at the latest.

Just out of curiosity, would be against forum rules for me to slander/blaspheme/insult the "creator" David is using since it doesn't seem to carry any overt connection to Christianity?

No, you would not be allowed to "slander/blaspheme/insult" the Creator, nor do we allow members to slander and insult other members.

This is non negotiable.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I will set this up, either tomorrow morning or evening at the latest.



No, you would not be allowed to "slander/blaspheme/insult" the Creator, nor do we allow members to slander and insult other members.

This is non negotiable.

Just checking...

What if I mildly rib the Creator?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

..............

Just out of curiosity, would be against forum rules for me to slander/blaspheme/insult the "creator" David is using since it doesn't seem to carry any overt connection to Christianity?

Im surprised that you even asked that question in a distinctively Christian Forum ; I hope you aren't a militant 'Atheist' because Im trying hard these days to be kind even to the obnoxious and arrogant in Society.....and id hate to have to include you in that list.

After the Mod has set up the room, ill post within a week or so.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Im surprised that you even asked that question in a distinctively Christian Forum ; I hope you aren't a militant 'Atheist' because Im trying hard these days to be kind even to the obnoxious and arrogant in Society.....and id hate to have to include you in that list.

After the Mod has set up the room, ill post within a week or so.

Why is it so acceptable to attach the term "militant" to atheists who speak their minds, but not to Christians who speak their minds? I don't get what you just did there. Are you saying that you hope she doesn't have opinions that she holds strongly? Are you saying that you hope she's not an atheist? Are you saying that you hope that she isn't one to express her thoughts with conviction? What exactly is your point by using the fighting words "militant atheist"?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Why is it so acceptable to attach the term "militant" to atheists who speak their minds, but not to Christians who speak their minds? I don't get what you just did there. Are you saying that you hope she doesn't have opinions that she holds strongly? Are you saying that you hope she's not an atheist? Are you saying that you hope that she isn't one to express her thoughts with conviction? What exactly is your point by using the fighting words "militant atheist"?

I think the topic of 'Militant Atheism' would make for a good Formal Debate . Maybe you and I can take this on sometime in the future.

Ill clarify what I meant by what I said..then I think it would behoove All to stay on the assigned Debate Subject ; so to answer your questions :

1. Atheists and Christians are allowed to speak their minds so long as its within the boundaries of the CF Rules which we all agreed to upon subscribing .

2. She can hold to her opinions strongly, but she is to refrain from goading/attacking God or the individual Christian ; there are a plethora of Atheist Forums to fulfill that desire.

3. Anyone who mocks, defames , makes jokes about the Creator of the Universe who is the Creator of us all is anti-God and best represents what a true Atheist is , so, yes, I suspect she is an Atheist if that's part of her common agenda to do so.

4. I see a militant Atheist as one who goes way beyond their closely held belief that there is no Creator , to have an agenda commensurate with deliberate hurtful behavior often vile in nature / filled with hate / topped off with utter arrogance and doesn't care to be obedient to established objective Rules and Regulations that this Forum calls for.

I don't wish to continue with this particular conversation, but you asked some pointed questions and you got them answered. Again, Id be up for a future Debate on this issue if you are up for it. End.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Im surprised that you even asked that question in a distinctively Christian Forum ; I hope you aren't a militant 'Atheist' because Im trying hard these days to be kind even to the obnoxious and arrogant in Society.....and id hate to have to include you in that list.

After the Mod has set up the room, ill post within a week or so.

Lol please...don't hold back on my account Dave, tell us all what you really think.

Only reason I've asked is because I've seen so many other gods defamed on the forum lately I thought maybe the rules had relaxed. I remember plenty of non-christian gods being called "false" which is about the worst insult a god can get. You didn't appear to be attaching christianity to your "creator" so I figured it was fair game. No big deal. I've no history of formal debate so a few questions were in order.

A week will do fine.

Also you might want to try to remember I'm a guy if you address me in your post.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Lol please...don't hold back on my account Dave, tell us all what you really think.

Only reason I've asked is because I've seen so many other gods defamed on the forum lately I thought maybe the rules had relaxed. I remember plenty of non-christian gods being called "false" which is about the worst insult a god can get. You didn't appear to be attaching christianity to your "creator" so I figured it was fair game. No big deal. I've no history of formal debate so a few questions were in order.

A week will do fine.

Also you might want to try to remember I'm a guy if you address me in your post.

Then, be watching for my first post on or before 6-10-14 .