The speaker had to choose between loyalty to Trump and loyalty to America

[The Barbarian]

Speaker Mike Johnson’s sudden bid to deliver aid to Ukraine came days after fresh intelligence described the U.S. ally at a true make-or-break moment in its war with Russia.
It was exactly the kind of dire assessment that President Joe Biden and the White House had spent months privately warning Johnson was inevitable.
The House GOP leader is embracing $60.8 billion in assistance to Ukraine in a push to prevent deep losses on the battlefield, amid warnings that Ukrainians are badly outgunned and losing faith in the U.S. following months of delay in providing new funds.

The intelligence, shown to lawmakers last week and described by two members who have seen it, built on weeks of reports that have alarmed members of Congress and Biden administration officials. On Thursday, CIA Director William Burns warned that, barring more U.S. aid, Ukraine “could lose on the battlefield by the end of 2024.”
It heightened the sense of urgency surrounding a White House effort to convince Johnson to hold a public vote on Ukraine aid that has dragged on behind the scenes since the day he became speaker. Johnson had resisted for months in the face of growing threats to his speakership if he sided with Biden and allowed the vote.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/18/biden-johnson-ukraine-aid-00153237

This might be the hoped-for shift in alignment that puts the majority of Americans back on the same side. We can only hope.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Do you mean loyalty to Israel?

 

[The Barbarian]

Do you mean loyalty to Israel?

I notice the people in Congress who are supporting Putin against America, are less inclined to attack Israel. So no. Not sure if Trump is actually serving Putin the way some republican senators and representatives are doing.

So far, former Trump underling Lev Parnas named specific republicans who are doing Putin's work, but he didn't mention Trump that I know of. He's not the only one who's said so:

GOP Congressman Says Russian Propaganda "Being Uttered on the House Floor"​

As MAGA members of Congress including Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA), Thomas Massie (R-WV), and Matt Gaetz (R-FL) oppose sending additional aid to Ukraine as it fights against a Russian invasion, GOP Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX), Chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said Russian propaganda has “infected a good chunk of my party’s base.”

MSN

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I notice the people in Congress who are supporting Putin against America, are less inclined to attack Israel. So no. Not sure if Trump is actually serving Putin the way some republican senators and representatives are doing.

But you approve of America and Bidens unconditional support of Israel in its military efforts right?

It's a given the GOP supports Israel unconditionally.

 

[The Barbarian]

But you approve of America and Bidens unconditional support of Israel in its military efforts right?

In the same way I approve of Bigfoot and the Easter Bunny and other mythical things.

Biden is reiterating that Israel still has the right to go after Hamas, and he's emphasizing that. But he's also saying as long as it follows the rules of war and that they try to protect civilians. And he emphasized that the U.S. and Europe still have the support - or are supporting Israel. But Biden said, quote, "they're starting to lose that support by the indiscriminate bombing that takes place." And that's the end of the quote.

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/13/1218999226/president-biden-makes-critical-remarks-on-israels-response-to-hamas-attacks

I guess they don't carry that stuff in Russia.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

In the same way I approve of Bigfoot and the Easter Bunny and other mythical things.

Biden is reiterating that Israel still has the right to go after Hamas, and he's emphasizing that. But he's also saying as long as it follows the rules of war and that they try to protect civilians. And he emphasized that the U.S. and Europe still have the support - or are supporting Israel. But Biden said, quote, "they're starting to lose that support by the indiscriminate bombing that takes place." And that's the end of the quote.

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/13/1218999226/president-biden-makes-critical-remarks-on-israels-response-to-hamas-attacks

I guess they don't carry that stuff in Russia.

But your beloved US just approved of sending Israel Billions of dollars. Isn't that a good thing? Rewarding Israel for its slaughtering?

Doesn't this save American democracy?

 

[The Barbarian]

But your beloved US just approved of sending Israel Billions of dollars.

Biden is reiterating that Israel still has the right to go after Hamas, and he's emphasizing that. But he's also saying as long as it follows the rules of war and that they try to protect civilians. And he emphasized that the U.S. and Europe still have the support - or are supporting Israel. But Biden said, quote, "they're starting to lose that support by the indiscriminate bombing that takes place." And that's the end of the quote.

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/13/1218999226/president-biden-makes-critical-remarks-on-israels-response-to-hamas-attacks

Doesn't this save American democracy?

Hmm... maybe Israeli democracy. They still have free elections, you know.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Biden is reiterating that Israel still has the right to go after Hamas, and he's emphasizing that. But he's also saying as long as it follows the rules of war and that they try to protect civilians. And he emphasized that the U.S. and Europe still have the support - or are supporting Israel. But Biden said, quote, "they're starting to lose that support by the indiscriminate bombing that takes place." And that's the end of the quote.

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/13/1218...-remarks-on-israels-response-to-hamas-attacks


Hmm... maybe Israeli democracy. They still have free elections, you know.

Ah so you support the state of Israel unconditionally as well huh?

How many dead Palestinians does the preservation of democracy require?

 

[The Barbarian]

Ah so you support the state of Israel unconditionally as well huh?

Ah, so you like to make up positions for other people, and insist they accept them, huh?

I get that this discussion didn't work out so well for you. But you need to learn from it and do better. Anger is a weapon only in the hands of your adversary.

How many dead Palestinians does the preservation of democracy require?

How many dead Russians will it take for Russia to become a democracy? Clean your own house, before you peek in your neighbor's window.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Ah, so you like to make up positions for other people, and insist they accept them, huh?

I get that this discussion didn't work out so well for you. But you need to learn from it and do better. Anger is a weapon only in the hands of your adversary.

I don't understand. Don't you support the democrats and republicans rewarding Israel for its slaughter of the Palestinians? Isn't this saving democracy?

How many dead Russians will it take for Russia to become a democracy? Clean your own house, before you peek in the neighbor's window.

Huh? I'm a New Zealander. Not a Russian. But I dont believe in millions of deaths in order to create a democracy or export it worldwide. There are other systems and not everyone else had to follow what burgerland wants.

Do you not believe someone can live in the West and not like the established system?

 

[The Barbarian]

I don't understand.

That is why you failed. I get that this discussion didn't work out so well for you. But you need to learn from it and do better. Anger is a weapon only in the hands of your adversary.

Don't you support the democrats rewarding Israel for its slaughter of the Palestinians?

Don't you support Putin for his slaughter of Ukrainian civilians?

Huh? I'm a New Zealander.

Of course you are.

But I dont believe in millions of deaths in order to create a democracy or export it worldwide.

So far, you're the only one who has expressed such an idea. Did you think no one noticed?

There are other systems and not everyone else had to follow what burgerland wants.

Putin's system, for example? Notice that your system has never succeeded in providing a stable prosperous society. Why do you think the Ukrainians are fighting so ferociously against your hero?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

That is why you failed. I get that this discussion didn't work out so well for you. But you need to learn from it and do better. Anger is a weapon only in the hands of your adversary.

Again, do you not support the Democrats rewarding Israel for its slaughter of Palestinians? You seem to love everything they do.

Don't you support Putin for his slaughter of Ukrainian civilians?

I don't support the killing of civilians no matter who does it. US, Russia, China. I try not to carve out exceptions.

Of course you are.

Yeah I literally am.

So far, you're the only one who has expressed such an idea. Did you think no one noticed?

Because you dont think of the costs of wanting your preferred form of government and morality everywhere. I do and i dont like the Idea.

Putin's system, for example? Notice that your system has never succeeded in providing a stable prosperous society. Why do you think the Ukrainians are fighting so ferociously against your hero?

Again, not Russian. I'm a New Zealander. But I dont exactly consider the Western model at the moment to be a society worth preserving because we are literally dying as a society. But that's more a discussion for another thread. Do you want to open a thread defending modernity in all its aspects?

 

[The Barbarian]

Again, do you not support the Democrats rewarding Israel for its slaughter of Palestinians?

Do you not support Putin and his American assets, rewarding him for his slaughter of civilian Ukrainians?

I don't support the killing of civilians no matter who does it.

Then stop carving out exceptions.

I dont believe in millions of deaths in order to create a democracy or export it worldwide.

So far, you're the only one who has expressed such an idea. Did you think no one noticed?

Because you dont think of the costs of wanting your preferred form of government and morality everywhere.

So you're back to inventing ideas for other people. How did that work for you, the last time you tried it? Right. So why put yourself through that, again?

But I dont exactly consider the Western model at the moment to be a society worth preserving because we are literally dying as a society.

I notice that Russia is dying as a society as young educated men flee, and there's a looming demographic disaster for them with too many old people and not enough young people to support them. And it's directly attributable to the system you admire so much. And the United States is avoiding that disaster. It's directly attributable to the system you hate.

But that's more a discussion for another thread.

Then it was probably a bad idea for you to bring it up here. Notice that your system has never succeeded in providing a stable prosperous society. Why do you think the Ukrainians are fighting so ferociously against your hero?

Do you want to open a thread defending modernity in all its aspects?

Why not start an "Ignatius argues with himself" thread just for you? That's pretty much what you've ended up doing here, after all.