The Monergism Safe House

[student ad x]

The Monergism Safe Haven

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Members who choose to participate in this safe-house thread should believe in Monergisim, that is, the regeneration of sinners is not a cooperative effort between man and the Holy Spirit, but the work of the Holy Spirit alone. In summary, this thread is for discussing Soteriology from a Monergistic point of view.
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Fellowship posts from all members are welcome. Members who hold to Prevenient Grace or Synergism may not intentionally disrupt this thread.
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This safe house thread is specifically for those members who believe in Monergistic grace.
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The safe house is for discussion and not for debate. Debate is defined as: "Engaging in argument by discussing opposing points."
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If a topic turns into a debate then staff will split the debate off into a new thread.
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Members who do not hold to the view of Monergistic Grace may post in fellowship only.
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No posts from this safe house may be quoted in other threads or used to start discussion threads in the main Soteriology forum.
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The CF site-wide rules and Soteriology Rules do apply to this thread.
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[student ad x]

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[arborvita]

*stuck*

 

[Tim Myers]

Before we get started, could give the specific definition of "Regeneration" as it will apply to this thread??........

 

[student ad x]

........... probably a good beginning to a discussion. I'll put out there what popped into my mind; new birth - spiritual birth from above.

 

[cygnusx1]

Hi friends , just have to say it's pointless arguing "my tradtion beats your tradition" if the said tradition did not even debate the thing your opposing , ie, it's a red herring to say "the ECF didn't believe in TULIP (or any part of that system of theology) so therefore it's gonna be wrong" IF the ECF never even debated or considered it .... let's deny laptops and mobile phones exist because John Calvin never believed in them !

 

[student ad x]

 

[nobdysfool]

As I understand it, Regeneration refers to the first work of God in a man's heart, that which opens his eyes and ears to the spiritual truth of the Gospel. It can properly be called the New Birth, for it is the beginning of a person's walk with God, that which comes first, and from which flows all that comes after: repentance, forgiveness of sins, justification, sanctification, growth in understanding, and growth in faith, and ultimately, glorification.

 

[student ad x]

As i understand it, Regeneration refers to the first work of God in a man's heart, that which opens his eyes and ears to the spiritual truth of the Gospel. It can properly be called the new Birth, for it is the beginning of a person's walk with God, that which comes first, and from which flows all that comes after: repentance, forgiveness of sins, justification, sanctification, growth in understanding, and growth in faith, and ultimately, glorification.

I agree with you J, excellent post. The prophet Ezekiel seems to give a picture of what the Lord does with the heart in the same way that He had done with a remnant of Israel:

"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances......." Ezekiel 36:26-27 NAS95

This passage is interesting given the context....... it wasn't for Israel's benefit that God acted, it was for His holy name that He acted...... and God shows in His actions through Israel to the world/nations that He is holy.

 

[heymikey80]

As I understand it, Regeneration refers to the first work of God in a man's heart, that which opens his eyes and ears to the spiritual truth of the Gospel. It can properly be called the New Birth, for it is the beginning of a person's walk with God, that which comes first, and from which flows all that comes after: repentance, forgiveness of sins, justification, sanctification, growth in understanding, and growth in faith, and ultimately, glorification.

I'd agree that the initiation is uniquely God's cause.

There are attempts to push this even further; I think there're elements that are very much dependent on New Birth, and some theologies try to push those into monergism, too. Important distinction though when it comes to the Spirit creating / bearing the new life in a person, and distinguishing that from the newborn's natural growth or response as a spiritual creature.

 

[Hammster]

My biggest issue with the views of the synergists is the over-simplification/under-emphasis of some terms used in Scripture. Terms like born again, children, life/death, etc., are used for a reason. The "Christian-eze" that is used today makes these terms sound like they all mean the same thing. Every term, to them, means the whole gamut of salvation. So when you come across "born again", trying to get them to understand that there was a specific reason Christ used that term can be a bit frustrating.

 

[Hammster]

Case in point. This is from the synergist safe house.

"I'm sure I'm a to be labeled a synergist. I believe regeneration is all of God, following faith of course. I see the logical order as faith then regeneration. This is why I believe I would be labeled as a synergist, because I believe man is free to believe. I don't see how this is different then a Reformed perspective where man also cooperates with God, just after regeneration. There's still cooperation either way"

 

[nobdysfool]

My biggest issue with the views of the synergists is the over-simplification/under-emphasis of some terms used in Scripture. Terms like born again, children, life/death, etc., are used for a reason. The "Christian-eze" that is used today makes these terms sound like they all mean the same thing. Every term, to them, means the whole gamut of salvation. So when you come across "born again", trying to get them to understand that there was a specific reason Christ used that term can be a bit frustrating.

I agree. Sloppy definitions make for sloppy theology. If one examines the word "regeneration" to discern its meaning, even in English, it cannot mean anything other than a rebirth. Logically, does one initiate his own physical birth? Of course not. Neither does one initiate one's spiritual rebirth. In either, one is a participant, but that participation is passive until AFTER the actual birth has taken place. Active participation begins AFTER the birth has taken place, i.e breathing, crying etc in the case of the physical, and believing, repenting, etc. in the spiritual.

That is why, logically, regeneration precedes faith and all that follows.

Synergists claim to believe that man is free to believe. It is true that nothing prevents the man from believing, other than his own corrupt, sinful, God-hating nature. But, that is enough to prevent him from believing on Christ of his own accord, apart from and without the prior aid of the Holy Spirit regenerating his heart unto life, so that his eyes and ears are opened to see and hear the spiritual message of the Gospel, and believe on it.

God does not prevent him from believing. It is the man himself who prevents him from believing. Unregenerate man is his own worst enemy. His very nature betrays him, and will be his ultimate undoing.

 

[Brother Chris]

I agree. Sloppy definitions make for sloppy theology. If one examines the word "regeneration" to discern its meaning, even in English, it cannot mean anything other than a rebirth. Logically, does one initiate his own physical birth? Of course not. Neither does one initiate one's spiritual rebirth. In either, one is a participant, but that participation is passive until AFTER the actual birth has taken place. Active participation begins AFTER the birth has taken place, i.e breathing, crying etc in the case of the physical, and believing, repenting, etc. in the spiritual.

That is why, logically, regeneration precedes faith and all that follows.

Synergists claim to believe that man is free to believe. It is true that nothing prevents the man from believing, other than his own corrupt, sinful, God-hating nature. But, that is enough to prevent him from believing on Christ of his own accord, apart from and without the prior aid of the Holy Spirit regenerating his heart unto life, so that his eyes and ears are opened to see and hear the spiritual message of the Gospel, and believe on it.

God does not prevent him from believing. It is the man himself who prevents him from believing. Unregenerate man is his own worst enemy. His very nature betrays him, and will be his ultimate undoing.

We have been taught that if you believe in Jesus, you will be born again. The old Christian confessions use to say, that one must be born again to believe in Jesus. Makes sense, since man is spiritually dead and can not and will not believe.

 

[cygnusx1]

many confuse regeneration with conversion and get confused and upset when they imagine their understanding of their own conversion is under threat , it isn't . Regeneration is prior to conversion , God regenerates - we "convert" .

 

[DeaconDean]

That is why, logically, regeneration precedes faith and all that follows.

Agreed.

I think I speak for one and all when I say man does indeed have faith.

I have the faith that unless I die before the morning breaks, I will see the light of another day.

But can this type of faith save?

Of course not.

But true, genuine, saving faith, the kind that renounces self, and depends solely on God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit comes after regeneration and conversion.

As a Southern Baptist, James P. Boyce outlines this in his great work "Abstract of Systematic Theology" in the chapter Regeneration and Conversion.

He outlines the process as: Regeneration and Conversion, followed by Repentance, and Faith.

To this agrees Charles Hodge in his three volume work "Systematic Theology". See Systematic Theology, Volume III, Soteriology.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Brother Chris]

Case in point. This is from the synergist safe house.

"I'm sure I'm a to be labeled a synergist. I believe regeneration is all of God, following faith of course. I see the logical order as faith then regeneration. This is why I believe I would be labeled as a synergist, because I believe man is free to believe. I don't see how this is different then a Reformed perspective where man also cooperates with God, just after regeneration. There's still cooperation either way"

Whatever cooperation there is on man's part, is still the work of God. The changing of the heart, changing of the will, enabling man to respond and cooperate is all a work of God. If God were to abandon us to our "free will" or "free choice", which is enslaved to sin and fallen, we would continue to reject Him willfully and deliberately. Therefore God would be just to condemn such a person.

I just wanted to add, my conversion experience really supports the doctrine of election/predestination and the sovereignty of God in salvation. God was coming after to me, to save me. I was completely oblivious to what was happening to me, until I got saved.

 

[student ad x]

Bretheren, what do y'all have to say about ecumenicalism, syncretism/Christian pluralism & ecumenism............. as it relates to soteriology?

 

[Hammster]

Bretheren, what do y'all have to say about ecumenicalism, syncretism/Christian pluralism & ecumenism............. as it relates to soteriology?

If they are willing to compromise their beliefs, I'm all for it.

 

[AndOne]

Just curious - isn't it against the rules to deride calvinism as heresy?