The Fall of the West (It's Happening Now)

[Hans Blaster]

It is interesting that those of nations will go all defensive when criticized, yet willingly let their leaders sell the out to a global government that cares nothing of nationalism.

What?

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

It is interesting that those of nations will go all defensive when criticized, yet willingly let their leaders sell the out to a global government that cares nothing of nationalism.

"Nationalism," Christian or otherwise has always befuddled me. It could be due to me being a millennial, or my personality, a combination of both, or my upbringing (unlikely) that leads me to think I don't really get why people are nationalistic. It's like, you didn't do anything to be a US citizen (in most cases) so why do you care so much about being an American? Of course, that is a completely separate issue from the Nationalist vs. Globalist dichotomy. I serve God first and foremost and believe Christianity will survive anything even if only a small remnant survives (which looks like that is going to be the case by 2100 unless God bails us out with another revival, which could happen, honestly). However, I do feel lucky that I was born in the US. I could have been born in Brazil or something.

 

[Canuckster]

I agree, Christian Nationalism cannot persist unless secularism is destroyed. And so, although I am a Christian, I thank God for secularism. I mean, think about it, Christians would probably still be killing each other if it hadn't been for the Enlightenment.

Christians were killing each other in record numbers after the enlightenment... the last two great wars can attest to that. Perhaps what you mean is killing each other over doctrinal differences.

 

[timothyu]

Christians were killing each other in record numbers after the enlightenment... the last two great wars can attest to that. Perhaps what you mean is killing each other over doctrinal differences.

Remember the good ol' days when Constantine won a civil war by decking out his soldiers with Christian symbolism which caused Christians on the opposing team to not fight their fellow Christians? Gone are the days of spiritual unity as fleshy relevance becomes the norm, Christianity has become a duelling team sport and the Kingdom is ignored.

 

[Canuckster]

"Nationalism," Christian or otherwise has always befuddled me. ...why do you care so much about being an American? Of course, that is a completely separate issue from the Nationalist vs. Globalist dichotomy. I serve God first and foremost and believe Christianity will survive....

You can serve God first and be a nationalist. It was God who created the nations beginning at the Tower of Babel. He later went on to create the nation of Israel. These creative ventures make God a nationalist. The Globalists are doing everything in their power to reverse that. Thankfully, according to prophecy, they will not succeed.

 

[timothyu]

Thankfully, according to prophecy, they will not succeed.

After near destruction and extreme oppression as they build back better for themselves while pretending to be saviours to all. Polar opposite to the will of God.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

"The voting public is not immune to blame for the letdown. On the whole, voters were ill-
informed and minimally motivated. Just 5% are enthusiastic about the way things are going in
the United States. Only 21% said that candidates running for office this cycle did a good job of
explaining their plans. And less than two out of every five adults (38%) said they had given a lot
of thought to the election."

https://www.arizonachristian.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/CRC-Americas-Values-Study-Report-5.pdf

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

"The Center estimates that in 2020, about 64% of Americans, including children, were Christian. People who are religiously unaffiliated, sometimes called religious “nones,” accounted for 30% of the U.S. population. Adherents of all other religions – including Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists – totaled about 6%.
Depending on whether religious switching continues at recent rates, speeds up or stops entirely, the projections show Christians of all ages shrinking from 64% to between a little more than half (54%) and just above one-third (35%) of all Americans by 2070. Over that same period, “nones” would rise from the current 30% to somewhere between 34% and 52% of the U.S. population."

Modeling the Future of Religion in America

Since the 1990s, large numbers of Americans have left Christianity to join the growing ranks of U.S. adults who describe their religious identity as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular.” If recent trends in religious switching continue, Christians could make up less than half of the U.S...

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Whyayeman]

"The Center estimates that in 2020, about 64% of Americans, including children, were Christian. People who are religiously unaffiliated, sometimes called religious “nones,” accounted for 30% of the U.S. population. Adherents of all other religions – including Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists – totaled about 6%.
Depending on whether religious switching continues at recent rates, speeds up or stops entirely, the projections show Christians of all ages shrinking from 64% to between a little more than half (54%) and just above one-third (35%) of all Americans by 2070. Over that same period, “nones” would rise from the current 30% to somewhere between 34% and 52% of the U.S. population."

Modeling the Future of Religion in America

Since the 1990s, large numbers of Americans have left Christianity to join the growing ranks of U.S. adults who describe their religious identity as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular.” If recent trends in religious switching continue, Christians could make up less than half of the U.S...

www.pewresearch.org

How is this connected to the 'fall of the West'? It is just the end of a religion, though I doubt if the research projections mean much. Experience shows that there is no discernible difference in moral behaviour or standards between religious and non-religious societies.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

How is this connected to the 'fall of the West'? It is just the end of a religion, though I doubt if the research projections mean much. Experience shows that there is no discernible difference in moral behaviour or standards between religious and non-religious societies.

You are overly skeptical.

 

[Desk trauma]

"The Center estimates that in 2020, about 64% of Americans, including children, were Christian.

That's a bit more than 6%.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

That's a bit more than 6%.

There's a difference.

 

[Whyayeman]

You are overly skeptical.

I am sceptical, it's true. But my position is not pessimistic. I do not agree that the waning of Christianity matters much because our cultures are both wider and strong enough to continue. The Western cultures are not falling; they are developing. Far from waning, humane ideas are strengthening.

 

[Desk trauma]

There's a difference.

How did you arrive at that comically low 6% your claimed in the OP?

 

[Wolseley]

"The voting public is not immune to blame for the letdown. On the whole, voters were ill-
informed and minimally motivated. Just 5% are enthusiastic about the way things are going in
the United States. Only 21% said that candidates running for office this cycle did a good job of
explaining their plans. And less than two out of every five adults (38%) said they had given a lot
of thought to the election."

https://www.arizonachristian.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/CRC-Americas-Values-Study-Report-5.pdf

Perhaps the apathy is because they know that under the current two-party system and the manipulation of the election results that have become commonplace during that last several cycles, they know nothing will change; it's an exercise in futility, so they reach a point where they say why bother?

 

[Whyayeman]

Perhaps the apathy is because they know that under the current two-party system and the manipulation of the election results that have become commonplace during that last several cycles, they know nothing will change; it's an exercise in futility, so they reach a point where they say why bother?

What manipulation? Lots of allegations, still no evidence that meets any legal standard. Put, I agree, people believe the lies told about manipulations.

 

[Wolseley]

What manipulation? Lots of allegations, still no evidence that meets any legal standard. Put, I agree, people believe the lies told about manipulations.

Ah, yes....legal standards.

Of course, if we had a judiciary and a legislative body that adhered to the law, "legal standards" might carry a bit more punch.

But, to paraphrase Billy Jack, "When authority breaks the law, then there is no law."

 

[Whyayeman]

Ah, yes....legal standards.

Of course, if we had a judiciary and a legislative body that adhered to the law, "legal standards" might carry a bit more punch.

But, to paraphrase Billy Jack, "When authority breaks the law, then there is no law."

Actually there is no evidence of any reasonable standard. Every enquiry has met with the same conclusion. There was no systematic attempt to manipulate the election results. Recounts in Arizona and Georgia have shown that the Democratic vote was under-counted.

 

[Larniavc]

It is my understanding that the ideologies that both the Greeks and the Romans adopted led to the demise of these once-global powers from the west.

Neither were global powers.

 

[Wolseley]

Actually there is no evidence of any reasonable standard. Every enquiry has met with the same conclusion. There was no systematic attempt to manipulate the election results. Recounts in Arizona and Georgia have shown that the Democratic vote was under-counted.

Uh-huh. And we know there was no manipulation because we were told so by....the people who did the manipulating. Gotcha.