the Bible

[kayanne]

I grew up in a very liberal church, that didn't have much regard for the Bible. It was kind of "pick and choose" and "ignore whatever parts you don't like." I remember a sunday school teacher telling me when I was a child that the old testament stories are myths and fables. As a teen, wanting to believe that the words of the Bible were valuable, I would sometimes quote a verse in sunday school, something that I thought was pertinent to the discussion at hand, only to be told "Oh, that's just what the Bible says." (this is the literal truth of things I heard in church).

In my late teens, I heard the gospel (through a friend) for the first time, and I asked Christ to be my Savior. It was around that time that I decided that if I was going to believe in the God of the Bible, then it only made sense for me to believe in the Bible of that God, that it is His Holy Word cover to cover.

Eventually I ended up in a fundamental Bible church, and was so happy to find a church that took the Bible seriously, that wasn't afraid to stand up for what it teaches, and all seemed fine and good. And it truly was very good for me in many ways (I am convinced that being a part of this church saved my marriage, for example). But about a year ago, a particular situation in my life caused me to realize that a particular teaching of the church was actually very harmful (ironically, a teaching that really can't be backed up by the Bible anyway). I was rather angry inside at my church for it, yet I felt that I couldn't even talk with anyone there about it, because "good church members" believe everything that is taught . And that got me questioning a lot of the teaching and interpretation--the black and white "we're right and other churches are wrong" mentality about the many doctrines that Christians can't seem to agree on.

Now I find myself trying to find a balance between the liberal "anything goes" approach to the Bible, and the strict literal fundamentalism of my current church. Frankly, there are lots of things in the Bible I just can't quite understand and would like to just ignore. There just seem to be things that don't make sense, that contradict (even though most Christians will tell you it doesn't contradict, it seems to take word gymnastics to get some things to make any sense). Why wouldn't God just make it clearly say what He wants us to know? And how can I approach the Bible as anything less than perfect and infallible, yet still be convinced that what the Bible says about Jesus being our Savior is true?

To the unchurched/home churched people here, I would like to ask some questions. (and, not to be rude, but I am quite specifically asking the fundamentalists to not debate this here):
How do you reconcile your human understanding and the Bible, and things in the Bible that don't make sense or seem to contradict? Do you view the Bible as infallible/literal? NO DEBATES PLEASE. I come here to get away from that!
blessings, kayanne

 

[Bevlina]

The Bible is the Inspired Word of God Kayanne. Have you ever studied into how the Bible was written? It's an amazing study. I have a video about it in my video library.
Once you understand how it was written, you will be able to find all the archeological evidence that backs the Bible as being the absolute truth.

I have heard debates about whether or not the Bible is corrupted, misconstrued, contradictory etc; but, it always comes back to the same thing. Once we check it out, there is no going back. We can see it's absolute fact.
Also, we are given Faith. Through that faith, we test all things and have Faith that God is who He said He was, those things did happen, and Jesus is the Son of God. Our Saviour.

 

[Tavita]

How do you reconcile your human understanding and the Bible, and things in the Bible that don't make sense or seem to contradict? Do you view the Bible as infallible/literal?

I'm pretty much a fundamentalist and believe the bible is infallible and I take it as literal as I can. Realising of course there are passages that speak in the prophetic and poetic etc. When it comes to contradiction, there isn't any, it's just that we don't "know".... scripture should be interpreted by scripture, and God means for us to 'search out' by His Spirit those things we find hard to understand. When I find passages that I can't get my head around (because let's face it both Jesus and Paul were hard to understand at times) I just commit it to God and leave it to Him to reveal it to me. And if He takes a year or two or three, well, that's ok. I think we need to relax while we seek out a matter and just let the Spirit of God give us revelation. As long as we let Him know we mean business and want to know the answers. We will never know it all this side of heaven.

 

[theCreator'schild]

Bevlina and Tavita, I'd just like to say a hearty "Amen" to what you both said.

Some Scripture is hard to understand with the just the human mind. Paul says in Romans 12:2 (nlt)
"Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect his will really is."

What's really important here is to ask God to translate for you. Like Tavita said, some things we will not know this side of heaven, and other things God reveals when He's ready to reveal them. Some things we're just not ready to hear at the time we want to hear them. Patience is definitely a virtue.

God bless!

 

[kayanne]

What's really important here is to ask God to translate for you. Like Tavita said, some things we will not know this side of heaven, and other things God reveals when He's ready to reveal them. Some things we're just not ready to hear at the time we want to hear them. Patience is definitely a virtue.

God bless!

I appreciate your trying to help, but when I hear someone tell to "ask God to translate it" or "pray for understanding" etc, I just get so frustrated-----just look at all these different Christians, and all the different churches, who are asking God for help in interpreting scripture------and they're all coming up with different conclusions!!! (and often times, being very arrogant that their opinion is the one and only right one!)
I hate to admit it, but I have given up on understanding a lot of things (well, as you say, there are things we will not know this side of heaven). Actually, I can accept that, but most churches seem to act like they "know it all" and can be so derogatory toward others who view a doctrine differently. It makes me not want to go to Bible studies, and not even study the Bible myself. If theologians and pastors and Christians haven't figured out this stuff in all of these years, what in the world makes me think I'm going to!!!

 

[Mustaphile]

An interesting analogy of fiduciary faith, that is faith that expresses trust in God, is one of a person floating in the deep ocean. If you thrash about and struggle, kicking, flapping your arms and being stiff as a board, you will sink and feel like your drowning. If you just relax , you will float and there will be less panic, worry and anxiety. Trusting that God is in control is a difficult thing for us to grasp at times. When we do so we can begin to transcend the chaos and confusion and begin to read between the lines and find God as imminent, all in all.

All things work for good for those that love God. Although it seems confusing and chaotic, I feel there is a method in the madness. How can our love be stretched if we don't have someone who stretches our love? How can we forgive if we have noone to forgive? It's all there to make us focus on God, not on people. Everything relates to God in some way. We can see people through our own carnal eyes as someone we find hard to love, or we can see people through the eyes of faith as someone that God loves. It doesn't matter how you read the Bible so much as why you read the Bible. It doesn't matter how you follow God so much as why you follow God. It's intent, not action that God is interested in. Our actions are visible for the most part and people often make judgements on action. What is hidden from our eyes is intention of the heart, whereas intention of the heart is visible to God. For this reason we cannot always judge the actions of others without knowledge of intent. This is an important part of why we forgive actions. We're ignorant! We don't know everything. We can't begin to have knowledge of intent without directing our limited faith, hope and love towards God, and allowing the abundant faith, hope and love God directs towards us to flow through us to others. I can't trust or love all people on my own, but in trusting God, and knowing that God is in control, I can see them through the eyes of faith and know that God's faith, hope and love for them is abundant, and if I allow that to flow through me and trust in it, my eyes will be opened and my ears will hear, as they say in the Bible. There is truth in paradox. Things seem to be contradictory at times, but in between those contradictions lies a truth to be found.

Just relax and float. God has it all in control.

 

[Bevlina]

Oh I like that post Must, yes, I like that post.
I will admit that many people today are misconstrueing the Word of God. But it's our duty, as Christians, to read and study the Word, to meditate on the Word and to look to the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truths.
Sometimes in today's world, I feel people are placing too much trust in man's word, and not God's word. Those people, I just ignore.
If we study the Bible in quiet and with a peaceful mind, we can understand if we take it in context.
The main thing here is our Prayer life.
Our Prayer life is most, most important. To reflect on our prayers to God is also important.
Another important factor is our Faith in God, individually. And, we only have to look at the Bible to see Faith in action with the man with the withered hand.
Matt 12:10-13
When Jesus commanded the man with the withered hand to stretch out his hand, he obeyed instantly. But, he needn't have done that. He could have said " But I can't! If I could do that I wouldn't have come to you! You heal it first then I'll stretch it out."

Instead, the man tried with his might to stretch out his hand to His Saviour. And, his hand was healed.
So we, with our weak withered hands must always believe, and be obedient, then our Father will give us a spiritual life and our needs will be met accordingly. (Matt 21:22)
This includes being able to read the Bible with correct interpretation.
Prayer, and reading the Bible go hand in glove.

 

[loribee59]

An interesting analogy of fiduciary faith, that is faith that expresses trust in God, is one of a person floating in the deep ocean. If you thrash about and struggle, kicking, flapping your arms and being stiff as a board, you will sink and feel like your drowning. If you just relax , you will float and there will be less panic, worry and anxiety. Trusting that God is in control is a difficult thing for us to grasp at times. When we do so we can begin to transcend the chaos and confusion and begin to read between the lines and find God as imminent, all in all......

Just relax and float. God has it all in control.

excellent post Mustaphile! There are times when I'm mulling over the scripture, the revelation doesn't come to me, when I'm so focused. Many times, and this is kinda interesting, I get wonderful revelations when I'm in the bathroom, of all places. That's where I'm most relaxed, and get this flash of inspiration or revelation that gets me grinning. God never ceases to amaze me!

Again, thank you, that helps a lot to read your post and take to heart that it takes time to understand the Bible.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Many times, and this is kinda interesting, I get wonderful revelations when I'm in the bathroom, of all places. That's where I'm most relaxed, and get this flash of inspiration or revelation that gets me grinning. God never ceases to amaze me!

In the bathroom?! I'm glad I found your post because I have a tendency to ponder the Bible while I'm in the shower and I keep thinking, "I probably shouldn't be thinking about that while I'm in here!" Glad I'm not the only one!

As for understanding the Bible, we just need to keep reading, and asking God what something means when we are puzzled and don't understand. I've been thinking about how Paul encountered Jesus and learned and understood all that he did AFTER Jesus's resurrection. Paul wrote in 1Corinthians 4:15 that we have "ten thousand instructors in Christ". We have to believe that He will teach us if we are willing to learn.
In Psalm 25 it's written, (verses 4-5) "Shew me thy ways, O Lord; teach me thy paths. Lead me in thy truth, and teach me; for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day."
and verses 8-10 "Good and upright is the Lord: therefore will he teach sinners in the way. The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies."

 

[bobbichan]

I've had some simular situations myself. I've went to various churches in the past 12 years, even before I accepted Christ. Some of them were very liberal, others were more moderate, and others were fundimental. After awhile, I realized a specific teaching that every church I've been to taught just didn't hold up when it came to God's word. It was very confusing.

After I decided to leave the Church, I was able to study the Bible as it is. We really do not need anyone but the Holy Spirit to interpret it for us. A pastor is always nice, but then you always run the risk of the person being a false teacher. It may not be in what they teach in their services, but it could be their actions outside the church. I've heard horror stories of church leaders who were adulterous, pedifiles, and even such extremes as satanists. O_O I'm not saying everyone is like that, but you never really know. So I just turn to God and test everything.

One thing I've learned when studying the Bible is to take the verses and passages in the context of which they were written. Consider who wrote it, when it was written, the original audience, and what was going on in the world at that time. I've found that really helps with figureing things out.

Another useful thing is to find where verses contain the same words and context. It helps to link them together. This is especially useful when studying Eschatology... because Daniel and Revelation are speaking of the same things at points... and we can figure that out because of the words. I've found it very useful to download e-sword, it's a free computer version of the Bible. You can search for certian words and pull up all the verses that contain it, and compare. It's pretty nifty and very helpful!

 

[DarkGalaxy]

I believe the Bible is wholly inspired by God. If there are parts I do not understand, or they seem contradictory, I just put that on a "back burner" so to speak, and before long, an explanation comes along and brings it all into focus. That is amazing to me how that happens. Do not prejudge certain verses until the Holy Spirit has a chance to give you the meaning in full.

Also, I too get "inspired" in the bathroom, and have a copy of the Bible in there in just case I need to look something up! I believe the bathroom is one room in the house you get a chance to be alone, with God. As strange as that seems... God needs you to be focused on Him alone. If the bathroom is the only place that happens, then it will happen there. Perhaps it would be best if you and I went into the garden, or on a long walk, and talk with God there. Then perhaps the bathroom inspirations would stop, and we would have better quality time with God!

 

[xenia]

The main thing here is our Prayer life.
Our Prayer life is most, most important.

I agree completely. For hundreds of year before the invention of the printing press, most Christians did not have their own personal copy of the Bible, and since most people were illiterate, they couldn't have read it if they had one. But one thing we can all do, at any time and in any place is PRAY.

I find that too much Bible reading, done with wrong attitude, makes me argumentative, agitated and restless. I have had in the past an unfortunate tendency to read the Bible with the purpose of trying to prove favorite doctrines. I was looking for ammo not enlightenment. After I discovered this about myself, I was very sorry. I didn't even read the Bible for six months and concentrated on prayer. Now I am able to read the Bible again, but I read passages suggested from a yearly lectionary which prevents me from searching out passages that will help me win an online or Real Life debate. Whatever the reading is for the day, I receive it as from God. I learn more about what God is like through prayer than I do from Bible reading. And I learn more about what I am like....

Prayer never causes me to be argumentative, agitated, or restless. In fact, it's while I'm praying that I calm down and begin to see the bigger picture. And it's through prayer that the Bible makes sense.

So prayer and Bible reading are both good, but if I could only do one, I would pick prayer. Good thing we can have both!

 

[ZiSunka]

If you say that any part of the Bible doesn't matter, where does that stop? Do you say that the Bible is only the inspired word of God when you like what it says? When it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings? When it gives you warm and fuzzy happiness?

What do you do when someone comes along and says that salvation isn't through faith, it's through washing your clothes and taking laxatives? (yes, there are people who believe this) If the Bible is wrong about some teachings and doctrine, then where do you draw the line?

You either have to accept that the Bible is of God and that everything in it is for our benefit, or you have to accept that it could be wrong about salvation, too.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Perhaps it would be best if you and I went into the garden, or on a long walk, and talk with God there. Then perhaps the bathroom inspirations would stop, and we would have better quality time with God!

I think you are right! Now if the weather would just warm up!

Somewhere it is written (psalms, maybe?) "Be still and know that I am God." We all need to spend some quiet time and listen once in a while. Not easy to do sometimes in this 24/7 world, but we have to set our priorities.

I thought about something - last fall, on a not too chilly day, I took a trip to a state park and went for a walk. It's a nice park, has a lake, and is on the top of a mountain. And as I walked, a group across the lake at a picnic shelter began to sing "Amazing Grace". It was beautiful! God's beautiful scenery, and the voices of Amazing Grace ringing across the lake!

 

[ZiSunka]

Naw, everyone prays and ponders Bible passages in the bathroom. I think God knows it's the one place where we can be alone in peace and quiet for a few moments.

 

[Bevlina]

"Be still .... and know .......that I Am ..... God."
My favorite little passage in the Bible. Oh how it's brought me through various things!!

 

[theCreator'schild]

I appreciate your trying to help, but when I hear someone tell to "ask God to translate it" or "pray for understanding" etc, I just get so frustrated-----just look at all these different Christians, and all the different churches, who are asking God for help in interpreting scripture------and they're all coming up with different conclusions!!! (and often times, being very arrogant that their opinion is the one and only right one!)
I hate to admit it, but I have given up on understanding a lot of things (well, as you say, there are things we will not know this side of heaven). Actually, I can accept that, but most churches seem to act like they "know it all" and can be so derogatory toward others who view a doctrine differently. It makes me not want to go to Bible studies, and not even study the Bible myself. If theologians and pastors and Christians haven't figured out this stuff in all of these years, what in the world makes me think I'm going to!!!

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you more frustrated. There's a lot I don't understand, but I try to keep positive. I hope you find what you're searching for.

 

[Just Me Garry]

We should study the Bible to be workman that needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth.

The Bible is a spiritual book and can only be understood through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. While a person may not agree with what other Christians see in the Bible as truth does not always discredit their illumination as truth.

Here is an example. Truth has more than one facet to it.
If I were stand in front of you and show you the palm of my hand you would just see that part of my hand, but I would see the back of my hand. It is different than the palm but it is still my hand. You would see the palm and I would see the back of my hand. Nevertheless it is still my hand.

The book of proverbs says iron sharpeneth iron, so one man doth sharpeneth the countenace of the other.

Pro 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

 

[New_Wineskin]

You either have to accept that the Bible is of God and that everything in it is for our benefit, or you have to accept that it could be wrong about salvation, too.

That is why salvation is not from the Law but from the Spirit . The Lord brings salvation ... not paper made from a tree .

 

[Bevlina]

. Romans 8:16 tells us: "The Spirit Himself [thus] testifies together with our own spirit, [assuring us] that we are children of God." First and foremost, we have the unshakable testimony from within us! The indwelling Holy Spirit of God constantly reassures us that we belong to Jesus Christ. We intuitively "know" this to be a fact.