Stunning images show Arizona border crossing overrun by massive surge of adult male migrants from across globe

[Desk trauma]

I wouldn't say I was a Marxist

Yet you were on the left and your earlier assertion was that is synonymous with Marxism.

 

[Desk trauma]

Yep that's right.

Yes, they are, it's contradictory to call leftists fascist if you're going by what that ideology consists of rather than using the word as nothing more than a slur for something you do not like.

 

[Desk trauma]

We need to get back to churches supporting the poor and the old and the widows, not the government.

Which they can do right now. If they are more effective at it demand for government assistance programs would decline.

 

[DaisyDay]

I wouldn't say I was a Marxist,

You sort of did:

Leftists are synonymous with Marxists I know because I used to be one of them. I saw the horrors from within.

Okay then, am I misunderstanding what you mean by "synonymous"? Or perhaps you meant something else by "I used to be one of them"?

I got into supporting Bernie Sanders because I was against the top 1% having it all. I didn't realize his ideals were very Marxist. Then I read the Communist Manifesto and my eyes were opened. I had friends who were full on Marxists though. Believed that the people could own the means of production, not the government. But they refused to see that they couldn't vote that in, you'd only be voting for more government. Bernie wasn't even working class either! I also couldn't get past how high our taxes would have to be to install all the social programs Bernie wanted. I mean our family would be paying 50% of our income to the government. So much for getting ahead.

He touts himself as being a socialist, but is a registered Democrat and very anti-authoritarian. Is there any specific policy of his that you oppose or have you decided that the top 1% having it all is more desirable than a large government? Do you think that a minimal government would keep the top 1% from accumulating even more, cause them to have less or what?

Oh yeah, possible flooding. And antelopes. yep.

Possible? During monsoon season? Yes, very probable, just like every year before.

 

[DaisyDay]

Yep that's right.

What's right?

Consider BLM and the riots if you didn't realize the far left was fascist.

I guess you declined to click on the definition of "fascist" if you think BLM and "the riots" are fascistic. Even the informal definition of "needlessly strict or unfairly oppressive" doesn't fit.

Do you also think that Antifa is also fascist? I consider Antifa far left, but anti-authoritarian, even verging on anarchic.

I had friends say I was a racist if I didn't support BLM.

Do Black lives actually matter to you? I take it that you do not support BLM.

Tolerance for all except those who disagree.

Ironically, that seems to be your definition of fascism: disliked type of government and/or movements.

 

[DaisyDay]

One of them meaning I was behaving like one of them, but I didn't realize what Marxism stood for until I read the Communist Manifesto and some other books on socialism. I guess I was just going along with it because I hated the top 1%. Definitely not a good place to be and I think a lot of young people are that way but won't admit it. It's hard to see you are being deceived until your eyes are opened.

So when you said that you were a Leftist (which is synonymous with Marxist by your own insistence) you didn't mean it in any but the most superficial way, sort of a "cultural leftist" as opposed to a "philosophical leftist"?

Yes the ability for anyone to work their way to the top is more desirable than for everyone to be 'equal'.

Too many people consider "anyone" to mean "everyone" if they just work hard enough. Exceptions occur, but they are exceptional and very far from the rule.

There is no such thing as equality of outcomes. If you are a Christian you believe 'don't covet'.

That is more aspirational than real.

Bernie basically was the epitome of covetousness. "I hate it that the rich have more than me so therefore we are going to take all of their wealth and redistribute it."

That sounds more like you than like Bernie; that does not sound like him one iota. Please cite something from him that indicates this.

Welp now you have the Soviet Union. Absolutely CRUSHES innovation and advancement and desire to get anything done good because you won't be compensated for it, so buildings fall apart, roads are shoddy, etc. We have many examples of this. Have you ever bought something from China and said 'piece of crap made in china?' I'm sure you have.

Do you think the old Soviet Union is the same as present day China? You can get crap from China just as you can get American made crap.

"They also did it at a time when the Detroit auto makers, run by men like Iacocca, were building bad cars. Cars that were designed to break down and need trading-in after only a few years. It was called "planned obsolescence.” Detroit loved it, and the American consumer was stuck with it. Until the Japanese came along and offered us a choice."

I own some fine products from China, Japan, Malaysia, all over the world, really including from home. I try not to buy crap at the cheapest possible price because, like many Americans, I have enough crap.

Why is it those in socialist countries come to the US for their expertise in medicine? because they don't have the specialties there! They get put on a waiting list and that's it. (not that I'm pro big pharma or the medical institution, I take care of my body we have only needed the medical institution when I needed stitches or midwifery care). I am pro medical CHOICE.

You might equally well ask why medical tourism (where Americans go to other countries for treatments) is such a big thing in America. While we do have some top notch medical care available, it is not available to everyone, as you know. I would rather wait in line for treatment I can get (and afford without fear of bankruptcy) than to be denied flatly for lack of money because insurance won't cover it.

Insurance companies control most of healthcare allocations here, what treatments their customers can get, where and what it will cost. And there are still surprise bills even for the most careful consumers of healthcare. More and more, doctors, nurses, pharmacists, etc. are owned by insurance companies, but appropriate care is too often determined by clerks and accountants not doctors or medical personnel.

I am pro medical CHOICE.

Which means what?​

 

[DaisyDay]

You don't think the riots were oppressive?!

No. They were terrible, deadly at times and destructive, but oppressive? No, that is not the word for it. For instance, a pack of wolves or a hurricane may be deadly and frightening, but not oppressive.

Uhh they literally burned down towns!

I have come to accept that the word "literally" is used to mean "not literally but figuratively". If you go by the original meaning, which towns got burned down?

Some places don't even have stores anymore due to the riots.

Which ones? I find this really hard to believe, but if you can show it....

They can't get their prescriptions filled because the drug stores are gone.

You know that was three years ago. Whose drugstores are still gone?

Antifa was extremely fascist.

If you were able to read and understand Marx, you should be able to look up and understand what the word "fascist" means. Or perhaps you think as Humpty-Dumpty did: “When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less. The question is, which is to be master—that’s all...They’ve a temper, some of them—particularly verbs, they’re the proudest—adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs—however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That’s what I say!”

They believed they were right and everyone had to agree with them or else. They said look at me look at me I'm burning down the town to prove to you I'm right and force you to obey my will. Super immature and hypocritical. Also very violent. But many on the left went along with it.

That doesn't sound anything like antifa. They have never said they were right and everyone had to agree with them - what they said was that they would fight the fascists, particularly their nemesis, the Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer. They are undeniably very violent, but the normie left wanted nothing to do with the riots but were there for the peaceful protest part.

Of course all lives matter. BLM used George Floyd's death to extort money from people. They are a false organization that bought a mansion instead of used the money to support black people.

Yeah, some BLM organizations - there were more than one, you know - were grifting but most the peaceful protesters were/are sincere. And they seem to have been effective, that and the increase of cameras, both officer-cams and phone cameras, have changed the way officers who murder while on duty are treated. It used to be very rare that an officer was arrested, let alone prosecuted and convicted.

I'm still waiting on an apology from a family member who said if we didn't support the organization we were racist.

Family members can be like that.

 

[Pommer]

After the autopsy came out about George Floyd recently it is clear he died of an overdose,

“Too much knee” will do one in, all of the time, yes.

 

[DaisyDay]

It sounds like you are someone who would vote for Bernie so why am I arguing with you?

Instead of assuming, why not just ask me if I would? I don't know why you're arguing instead of asking.

When Trump was President the economy was booming.

The first 3 years after Obama were booming....but then came the pandemic and Trump's disastrous handling of it. He handled the boom somewhat well - but giving a tax break instead of paying down the national debt was not done for the good of the country.

Then when the economy tanked, he couldn't handle it at all. Biden has brought us back from the brink.

 

[NxNW]

You don't think the riots were oppressive?! Uhh they literally burned down towns! Some places don't even have stores anymore due to the riots. They can't get their prescriptions filled because the drug stores are gone. Antifa was extremely fascist. They believed they were right and everyone had to agree with them or else. They said look at me look at me I'm burning down the town to prove to you I'm right and force you to obey my will.

Never happened.

Super immature and hypocritical. Also very violent. But many on the left went along with it.

Never happened.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Socialism is supported by those on the left, communism is the extreme form.

I could reasonable called "on the left". I do not support socialism. Socialists may be best thought of as a faction of the left, but a rather small faction (5-10% or so) in the US.

I am probably most categorized as a conservative libertarian. I HATE big government.

So, something like anarcho-capitalism, or something else? (I get a little lost on the varieties of "conservative libertarianism".)

I hate 'it's for the common good'. I'm sorry if my posts have been unclear what the point was.

How not community minded of you.

We need to get back to churches supporting the poor and the old and the widows, not the government.

Churches are far too unreliable and self-interested to depend on for support of the poor or elderly.

Going back to immigration, democrats love immigration because they vote democrat.. to support more handouts.

Immigrants can't vote, only citizens. It takes quite a bit of time to become a citizen and entering without authorization of your own accord is a really bad way to start that process. (Don't all of those immigrants come because they want jobs? The handout thing makes no sense.)

"Give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him for a lifetime".

What does this have to do with immigrants who come looking for jobs?

Government social programs don't fix society. Socialism nor communism is the answer to society's problems.

Social programs are not socialism.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Antifa was extremely fascist.

You should let their naming committee know since antifa is short for "anti-fascist",

 

[USincognito]

The dems do this for votes that is all. They couldn't care any less about the welfare of these people.

Let's see how many conservative tropes show up in this post. This one is mind reading and telling people what they really think.

Isn't it common sense that's how politics works?

The appeal to common sense in lieu of actual facts.

They will do whatever it takes to get voted in.

Projection.

These people look dirt poor how did they get a steel cutting tool in the middle of the desert? hm...

Conspiracy theory.

Well done, but I'm going to suggest we apply Occam's Razor and look for the simplest solution.

 

[USincognito]

Of course, I have a few of them. But we also have access to basically anything we could ever want. I wouldn't put it past those on the left to cut openings in the border wall.

And there we have it. "Liberals are cutting holes in the wall so that illegals can flood this country and vote Democratic." I hope you don't trot out Replacement Theory next.

 

[USincognito]

Oh yeah, possible flooding. And antelopes. yep.

Here's another one. "They're lying because they're liberal and all liberals lie".

Again, maybe the answer is the simplest one - that there was a potential for flooding and the political rag that is the NY Post was trying to stoke the fires of the conservative outrage machine.

 

[JustOneWay]

I think the pandemic was a planned release. There will be another one, only worse. This was just a trial run.

The plandemic, part 1?

You realize that this feeds misinformation and conspiracy theories, right?

 

[USincognito]

Then there isn't really a point of having a wall in the first place, migrants will find any break in the wall. They need to be sent back to where they came from, come through proper channels if you want to migrate like all of our ancestors did.

My ancestors arrived on ships in Massachusetts and Virginia and started settlements in land vacated by the NAs after most died from European diseases.

 

[USincognito]

Good Christian values are supportive of healthy families.

Like Josh Dugger, Matt Shlapp, Jerry Falwell Jr, the Mons for Liberty gal and her husband?

Marxists promote things like children being taken away from loving parents who won't let their 14 yr old have her breasts chopped off because she has gender dysphoria.

Cite one example of that happening.

The parent is the problem, so they get rid of the parent.

Paranoid histrionics.

Marxists are the ones who promote sexual freedom and promiscuity leading to divorces and single Moms.

Fascinating how that's happening in a country with a majority of Christians. It's amazing how powerful these supposed Marxist social influences are.

Marxists are usually victim minded and want gov't handouts and reparations for stuff that happened 100 yrs ago.

Nothing but white grievance and dog whistle racism.

 

[USincognito]

Yep that's right. Consider BLM and the riots if you didn't realize the far left was fascist.

O k. Let's consider these things.

BLM is, simultaneously, an organization, a concept and a boogie man for the right. Not everyone supported the organization, even those who marched or participated in protests. The concept is more broadly supported, especially by those who understand what the words actually mean. The boogie man is still embraced by conservatives as evidenced by their bizarre claims that BLM helped execute the January 6th false flag attack on the Capitol.

The 2020 riots have achieved mythical status among Conservatives. In reality actual BLM protests were 93% peaceful. Some riots were instigated by Bogaloo Boys and other white nationalists. Some riots were instigated by police like the crackdown on the Elijah McClain violin vigil. Many were Antifa clashes with right wingers or police, not BLM. Most of the riots were criminal miscreants taking advantage of civil unrest during the Covid lockdowns.

Calling the far left fascist is an act of political illiteracy. Your first sentence didn't even establish that the BLM was far left, much less authoritarian. Fascism has a number of hallmarks completely absent from the far left
- Personality cult/strong man leader
- Hyper nationalism
- Church state entanglement
- Scapegoating of others as a tool of political unity
- Fetishization of the military
- Corporations given priority
- Suppression of labor unions
- Attacking intellectuals and the arts

We actually see quite a few of these hallmarks on the right.

I had friends say I was a racist if I didn't support BLM. Tolerance for all except those who disagree.

There were and are many who don't understand the premise of "black lives matter" and sneer at it, but there are plenty who use "all lives matter" as a racist flipping the bird towards black people.

 

[USincognito]

You don't think the riots were oppressive?! Uhh they literally burned down towns!

What towns were literally burned down?

Antifa was extremely fascist. They believed they were right and everyone had to agree with them or else.

That's not even close to being a defining characteristic of fascism, nor was Antifa doing anything of the sort.

They said look at me look at me I'm burning down the town to prove to you I'm right and force you to obey my will.

Name one town that was burned down by Antifa because (whoever) wouldn't accede to their will.

Of course all lives matter.

And there we go!