Spirituality & time travel?

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

I'm leading a small faith community at my Catholic college, where my group is very open to anyone of any spirituality, and we just talk about any broad topic I pick, then continue our story through Trans-Siberian Orchestra's album, Beethoven's Last Night. This week, as the beautiful spirit of Fate takes Beethoven through his past, I was wanting to use time travel as the discussion topic.

What do any of you think about the spiritual side of time travel? I've looked into it, but there doesn't seem to be a lot out there on this peculiar question. What's with humanity's incessant need to be somewhere else? And why is time travel such a common idea that I don't even need to explain what it is?

Thank you for your input! I think we can get a really interesting discussion going with such an odd way to start it.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

What do any of you think about the spiritual side of time travel? I've looked into it, but there doesn't seem to be a lot out there on this peculiar question. What's with humanity's incessant need to be somewhere else? And why is time travel such a common idea that I don't even need to explain what it is?

Thank you for your input! I think we can get a really interesting discussion going with such an odd way to start it.

It's a fun topic but I doubt it is possible for us mere mortals. Basically because of God's Sovereignty, and such things as "the butterfly effect" and how we would screw things up. The old show Heroes from 2006-2010 kind of illustrated that...

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

Basically because of God's Sovereignty,

God's Sovereignty? Interesting idea. If we look at this theologically, why are we allowed to travel through space, but not through time? I suppose this answer would vary based on the past or the future as the destination. Would He want us to change a past that we're supposed to surrender to Him? But we can change things in the present, using the ability to travel through time at one second per second to make things better....

Thank you for this post, this just triggered a lot of thoughts!

 

[Pavel Mosko]

God's Sovereignty? Interesting idea. If we look at this theologically, why are we allowed to travel through space, but not through time? I suppose this answer would vary based on the past or the future as the destination. Would He want us to change a past that we're supposed to surrender to Him? But we can change things in the present, using the ability to travel through time at one second per second to make things better....

Thank you for this post, this just triggered a lot of thoughts!

Well according to some Physicists when you go approach the speed of light and get to the time dilation affects you are changed into energy/light....

Besides that there are issues of Economy as well...

(God reveals His will and nature, by how he acts and behaves in the Bible: As far as how he created the Earth, humanity etc. , implemented the plan of salvation, how he dealt with Israel, the Church etc.)

Economy (religion) - Wikipedia

Economy of Salvation - Wikipedia.

 

[Jok]

And why is time travel such a common idea that I don't even need to explain what it is?

Because it’s a verifiable fact. However time travel is only possible into the future, you (humans) can never go back in time, only into the future. And technically you don’t leap into the future, instead you go somewhere else (or travel fast enough) to where time is moving forward way way slower than Earth’s time is moving forward, and when you come back Earth has aged much more than you did.

If we look at this theologically, why are we allowed to travel through space, but not through time?

We aren’t even close to being advanced enough to. And that’s assuming that it’s even possible (without the human body ripping apart).

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Gods Word tells us so:

Matthew 24:22
“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

 

[AgapeBible]

Jules Verne, one of the first sci-fi writers, wrote a novel on time travel. in it, the scientist went into the future seeking knowledge and scientific discovery. There was a movie made based on the book, but the scientist made the time travel machine to go back in time and stop his fiancee from dying, it was about love. After watching the woman he loved die in different ways, the scientist went far into the future to forget about her and mend his broken heart. There was a scary world with a race of handsome, doll-like people, and then these sinister, beastly people, who preyed on the gentler race.


There was another movie called Timeline, with scientist and historians going back to medieval times, they had to deal with history and rescuing and old scientist from a wicked nobleman. A Scottish historian fell in love with a medieval French lady, in history she was suppose to die, but the Scot could not bear to let her die, he loved her, and the good, loving kind people on the victory.

There have been many tv shows, cartoons, books, comic books, movies, video games, etc. on the subject of time travel. I don't think it's possible, but anything is possible with the Lord.
I thought about writing a time travel story where the anti-Christ rules and there are resistance Christian fighters who secretly share the gospel and rebel against the evil anti-Christ govenment. There is a man who illegally time travels and tries to change stuff, like the Vietnam war, Hitler's reign the Spanish inquisition, slavery, the French revolution/guillotine the crusades, Viking raids, etc. All the great evils of history. Well, he ends up being the thief on the cross that repents, that begs Jesus to remember him when he gets to His kingdom.

That song, time after time, makes me think of this. God will save us, time after time. No matter the great lengths of evil and darkness, cruelty and hatred human beings can sink, those that turn from this wicked world, God is there to save us, to give us the light, He raises us to great lengths of love, goodness and light, kindness and mercy. God waits for us time after time.

We can't change the past, and we can't go too far into the future. We must stay in the presence of God. Here in His presence we build our lives.

 

[honey badger]

time is the great gulf /chasm that separates us from Truth ...

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

Jules Verne, one of the first sci-fi writers, wrote a novel on time travel. in it, the scientist went into the future seeking knowledge and scientific discovery. There was a movie made based on the book, but the scientist made the time travel machine to go back in time and stop his fiancee from dying, it was about love. After watching the woman he loved die in different ways, the scientist went far into the future to forget about her and mend his broken heart. There was a scary world with a race of handsome, doll-like people, and then these sinister, beastly people, who preyed on the gentler race.


There was another movie called Timeline, with scientist and historians going back to medieval times, they had to deal with history and rescuing and old scientist from a wicked nobleman. A Scottish historian fell in love with a medieval French lady, in history she was suppose to die, but the Scot could not bear to let her die, he loved her, and the good, loving kind people on the victory.

There have been many tv shows, cartoons, books, comic books, movies, video games, etc. on the subject of time travel. I don't think it's possible, but anything is possible with the Lord.
I thought about writing a time travel story where the anti-Christ rules and there are resistance Christian fighters who secretly share the gospel and rebel against the evil anti-Christ govenment. There is a man who illegally time travels and tries to change stuff, like the Vietnam war, Hitler's reign the Spanish inquisition, slavery, the French revolution/guillotine the crusades, Viking raids, etc. All the great evils of history. Well, he ends up being the thief on the cross that repents, that begs Jesus to remember him when he gets to His kingdom.

That song, time after time, makes me think of this. God will save us, time after time. No matter the great lengths of evil and darkness, cruelty and hatred human beings can sink, those that turn from this wicked world, God is there to save us, to give us the light, He raises us to great lengths of love, goodness and light, kindness and mercy. God waits for us time after time.

We can't change the past, and we can't go too far into the future. We must stay in the presence of God. Here in His presence we build our lives.

This was really interesting to read; I didn't realize how often love was part of time travel. Even in H. G. Wells' classic The Time Machine, love became a part of it, shown in beautiful compassion from the two white flowers. It's been years since I read that last, but the flowers are a part I never forget.

time is the great gulf /chasm that separates us from Truth ...

To think out loud about your post...how would time separate us from the Truth, when both are made by God? Christ came at a certain time & died at a certain time; all the great prophets & patriarchs had their own spot in time; time would surely be part of God's Creation, and He uses it to the fullest! These discussions always take time, as does reading the Bible, writing & compiling & figuring out the teachings of the Bible. Even though God, infinite as He is, exists in a timeless realm, He still makes His presence known in concrete periods of time. Timelessness is the best way to find God's presence. I had a priest/professor describe Heaven as that feeling of looking into your lover's eyes, being so captivated with the beauty & intimacy & goodness of the other that time lasts forever. This is the eternity of love that so many songs beg for. Perhaps time is like so much of this world? Capable of being idolized, thus being a stumbling block to access God, but created inherently good by Him?

UPDATE: This is the song I had in mind when I wrote that part:

 

[SPF]

What do any of you think about the spiritual side of time travel?

Well, I don't think time travel is possible, at least not in the way that science fiction movies show it.

Ultimately, I don't think time is actually a thing. Time is a measurement. Time is a measurement of change and/or duration. That's all it is. Time travel to the past is not possible because the past does not exist. Time travel to the future may be possible, but only in the sense that the person traveling to the future is experiencing the passage of time differently than everyone else. And once they are "in the future" they are actually in the present, and would have no means for going back.

Only the present actually exists. Traveling to the past is impossible, it doesn't exist.

 

[Sketcher]

If you could go back in time, what changes would God really allow you to make? If he would allow you to make significant changes that would have changed history, why didn't he allow history to go that way to begin with, without the time traveler's intervention? And if a time traveler's intervention is really a part of fulfilling history, is it really a change, and what would have motivated the time travel to begin with?

Or, let's say that somehow you are immediately conveyed tens or hundreds of years into the future. If you are able to go back, would you really be able to change anything in the present to prevent or improve upon the future that you had seen?

One has to answer these questions before one can truly begin to speculate on the spiritual consequences of either.

 

[Shemjaza]

Surely an omnipotent and omniscient God could trivially factor time travel and paradoxes into a plan?

Outside time would mean you could already see all the winding paths of time travel weaving through it.

It's fiction, but in JRR Tolkien's The Silmarilian, the God of the world conducted the world and all its history into a single perfect bit of music before then events could even begin.

 

[Alistair_Wonderland]

Humanity's greatest strength and weakness is our curiosity and our desire to do the impossible. Like flight and space travel, time travel is just another frontier that has captured mankind's curiosity.

However, the possibility of time travel would indeed bring up all sorts of theological questions. If one were to be stuck in a time loop and never die, could they ever go to Heaven? What happens to the soul if one is erased form the timeline; that's not death so much as it is that the person never existed, yet did at the same time. Do alternate timelines exist, and would we have to answer for the sins our doubles committed in those timelines, or would our doubles be unique individuals unassociated with us, and if there were multiple versions of us, would we share one soul, or have many?

Mind you, I'm not commenting on the plausibility of time travel or picking a side as to what the answer would be to the questions I posed. I'm thinking more as an author here than anything. All of these questions could lead to some very interesting science fiction books.

 

[Alistair_Wonderland]

If you could go back in time, what changes would God really allow you to make? If he would allow you to make significant changes that would have changed history, why didn't he allow history to go that way to begin with, without the time traveler's intervention? And if a time traveler's intervention is really a part of fulfilling history, is it really a change, and what would have motivated the time travel to begin with?

Or, let's say that somehow you are immediately conveyed tens or hundreds of years into the future. If you are able to go back, would you really be able to change anything in the present to prevent or improve upon the future that you had seen?

One has to answer these questions before one can truly begin to speculate on the spiritual consequences of either.

The difficulty with time travel is that you never know if you can't change anything, or if the present is the way it is because of your changes in the past.

 

[Alistair_Wonderland]

time is the great gulf /chasm that separates us from Truth ...

Well, I don't think time travel is possible, at least not in the way that science fiction movies show it.

Ultimately, I don't think time is actually a thing. Time is a measurement. Time is a measurement of change and/or duration. That's all it is. Time travel to the past is not possible because the past does not exist. Time travel to the future may be possible, but only in the sense that the person traveling to the future is experiencing the passage of time differently than everyone else. And once they are "in the future" they are actually in the present, and would have no means for going back.

Only the present actually exists. Traveling to the past is impossible, it doesn't exist.

Interesting perspective. Would time travel then be nothing more than an illusionary glance into the past, like a vision or such? So many interesting possibilities and questions arise from this ideology as well."

"Time is an illusion, and so is death."

Hmm. Certainly would fit in with the narrative that Heaven is what is real and this world is all a shadow, as many people believe.

 

[The Liturgist]

Surely an omnipotent and omniscient God could trivially factor time travel and paradoxes into a plan?

Outside time would mean you could already see all the winding paths of time travel weaving through it.

It's fiction, but in JRR Tolkien's The Silmarilian, the God of the world conducted the world and all its history into a single perfect bit of music before then events could even begin.

Of course, God created Time, otherwise we make Time the true god and make our god a mere demiurge. Thus, if time travel is possible, all contingencies relating to it including apparent paradoxes would be foreknown.

 

[The Liturgist]

Because it’s a verifiable fact. However time travel is only possible into the future, you (humans) can never go back in time, only into the future. And technically you don’t leap into the future, instead you go somewhere else (or travel fast enough) to where time is moving forward way way slower than Earth’s time is moving forward, and when you come back Earth has aged much more than you did.

We aren’t even close to being advanced enough to. And that’s assuming that it’s even possible (without the human body ripping apart).

Close. Actually a spacecraft theoretically capable of reaching Proxima Centauri in a subjective time for the crew of 20 years was proposed in the 1960s; see the Orion Project. The engineering challenges are massive but you could do it.

Now, how time dilation, or one-way time travel into the future as you put it, works, is actually quite a bit different. Under relativity, time slows down as we approach the speed of light, and this actually happens to us, so astronauts who have spent an extended time on ISS (months) have aged a tiny fraction of a second. These relativistic effects only become noticeable as you get quite close to the speed of light, but if you travelled for any length of time on a round trip to and from Earth at say, 0.2 C, where C is obviously the speed of light, the effects would be noticeable and striking. You would be something of a Rip van Winkle.