Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[BCsenior]

We’re not saved yet … for salvation is a process
“with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12).

Warnings about losing eternal life
••• Mark 9:43 “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched”
••• Luke 9:23-25 “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it (eternal life), but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost (eternally)?”
••• John 12:25 “He who loves his life will lose it (eternal life), and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.”
Also Matthew 16:25-26, Mark 8:35-37

Warnings about gaining eternal death
••• Romans 6:16-23 “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … For when you were slaves of sin
… the end of those things is (eternal) death.
… For the wages of sin is (eternal) death …”
••• Romans 8:13-14 “For if you live according to the flesh you will die (spiritually); but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (eternal life). For as many as are led by
the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”
••• Galatians 6:7-8 “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.”
••• 1 Timothy 6:9-10 “But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into may foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money
is a root of all kinds of evil … Let them (rich
Christians) do good, that they may be rich in good works … that they may lay hold on eternal life.”
••• Hebrews 10:36-39 “ ‘Now the just shall live by faith; but IF anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.’ But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.”
••• James 1:12-16 “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him … But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin,
when it is full-grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.”
••• Revelation 2:11 “He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”
Who is an overcomer? >> “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Revelation 3:21)
••• Revelation 21:7-8 “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Jesus is talking about anyone who is a habitual (unrepentant) sinner!

Warnings about being shut out of heaven
Mark 9:47 with Matthew 25:34-46 prove the kingdom of God is analogous to heaven.
••• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators,
nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,
nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 and Ephesians 5:3-6 are other “sin lists” about keeping people out of heaven.

Warning: being shut out of the New Jerusalem
••• Revelation 22:14-15 “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates of the city. But outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”

Warnings in 3 of the MANY conditional “IF” verses
••• 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 “Moreover, brethren,
I declare to you the gospel … by which you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you - unless you believed in vain.”
••• 2 Corinthians 13:5 “Examine yourself to see
IF you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.”
••• Hebrews 3:14 “For we have become partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.”
Also see Hebrews 10:39 above.

 

[bcbsr]

We’re not saved yet … for salvation is a process.

So you're saying Jesus was wrong in saying, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

And you're saying Paul was wrong in saying, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2:8,9

As for the verses you reference just about all of them are not talking about "losing salvation", but about diagnosing a person's salvation status. For "No one who has been born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:9,10 and "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19

 

[Dave-W]

You will find verses supporting all of these statements:

We have been saved - past tense.

We are being saved - present tense.

We will be saved - future tense.

All 3 are true.

 

[BCsenior]

BCBSR,
So, you don't like the OP verses.
How about my signature, which was
written to the believers in Rome?

 

[BCsenior]

Those who belong to Jesus were drawn to Him by Father God (John 6:44).
But, if they fail to remain in Jesus and produce fruit,
they will be destroyed!

••• John 15:1-10 “I am the true grapevine, and My Father is the gardener. He (Father God) cuts off every branch of Mine (Jesus) that doesn’t produce fruit … Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. … Anyone who does not remain in Me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. … Remain
in My love. When you obey My commandments,
you remain in My love, just as I obey My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.”

4 times in John 14, Jesus says, “Those who love Me will obey My commandments.”

 

[Strong in Him]

We’re not saved yet … for salvation is a process
“with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12).

Why is this in the UK and Ireland forum?

 

[BCsenior]

Why is this in the UK and Ireland forum?

Isn't this a sub-forum of ChristianForums.com?

 

[Strong in Him]

Isn't this a sub-forum of ChristianForums.com?

Yes, a sub forum for different regions of the world - which is in the section Leisure and society.
You have written a long, rather preachy, post in bold type, which is far better suited to the General Theology section of the forum since it is not specifically about, or for, the UK and Ireland.
You don't seem to have written it anywhere else on the forum.

 

[BCsenior]

Yes, a sub forum for different regions of the world - which is in the section Leisure and society.
You have written a long, rather preachy, post in bold type, which is far better suited to the General Theology section of the forum since it is not specifically about, or for, the UK and Ireland.
You don't seem to have written it anywhere else on the forum.

Yes, of course, it is under "Society".
Doesn't UK society need to hear about the gospel,
especially in a Christian forum?

 

[Phil G]

I agree that this topic is not specific to UK & Ireland and for that reason I believe it should be in another sub forum. However for the record, I would find it very disheartening if my salvation depended on my own works of righteousness and not on God. Certainly He has provided everything I need to live a Godly life and that is the Holy Spirit. It is my dependence on Him for salvation that guarantees my eternal life. Even if I fail to live a 100% Godly life (and I've yet to meet or hear of a single person who can!), my salvation is assured because it is 100% dependent on God. Even when I fall short of God's standard, I am still saved because my dependence is on His ability to save me. Can you stop yourself from sinning? Because that's the only way you can be saved according to your point.

If I can lose my salvation, then Jesus would have to un-choose me, un-justify me and remove His guarantee (the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1: 13-14) from me. How can the Holy Spirit be a 'guarantee' if He is to be removed from me? That's a contradiction of the word. He has 'sealed' my salvation by His Holy Spirit. Am I more powerful than God that I can unseal what He has sealed?

Another contradiction in your point is the word 'eternal'. If life is eternal, then by definition it cannot be lost. If it can be lost, then it was not eternal in the first place.

If I am truly 'born again' by the Holy Spirit, how can I be 'un-born again'? My spiritual rebirth was achieved by God alone by Jesus taking the punishment for my sin on Himself. If I can lose my salvation then His death and resurrection would be useless because it would be up to me to 'maintain' my salvation which would be by works and not grace.

While there are verses (quoted by you) which 'seem' to suggest loss of salvation is possible, they cannot be in contradiction of the Gospel. That means salvation by works must be wrong, even if it is about 'maintaining' salvation.

Thankfully, God chose me, saved me and justified me by Jesus taking the penalty I deserve on Himself and making me a new creation, sealed and guaranteed by the Holy Spirit. Nothing I could do would undo this and it is this fact which humbles me to seek Him more.

 

[BCsenior]

Thankfully, God chose me, saved me and justified me by Jesus taking the penalty I deserve on Himself and making me a new creation, sealed and guaranteed by the Holy Spirit. Nothing I could do would undo this and it is this fact which humbles me to seek Him more.

You are hoping the NT verses you have seen are not serious!

Getting in Christ is a whole different deal than Staying in Christ.
Are the following "believers" still "in Christ"?
-- not practicing righteousness
-- practicing habitual (unrepentant) sin
-- not abiding in Jesus
-- not bearing fruit
-- not loving fellow believers
-- fell away from the faith
-- estranged from Christ
-- fell from grace
-- drew back to perdition
-- not allowed into the Kingdom of God/Christ
-- not allowed into the city of New Jerusalem
-- blotted out of the Book of Life
-- has unforgiveness towards someone
-- hates someone (analgous to murder)
... my memory fails me for more!
NT verses for any of the above are available upon request.

 

[Aldebaran]

You are hoping the NT verses you have seen are not serious!

Getting in Christ is a whole different deal than Staying in Christ.
Are the following "believers" still "in Christ"?
-- not practicing righteousness
-- practicing habitual (unrepentant) sin
-- not abiding in Jesus
-- not bearing fruit
-- not loving fellow believers
-- fell away from the faith
-- estranged from Christ
-- fell from grace
-- drew back to perdition
-- not allowed into the Kingdom of God/Christ
-- not allowed into the city of New Jerusalem
-- blotted out of the Book of Life
-- has unforgiveness towards someone
-- hates someone (analgous to murder)
... my memory fails me for more!
NT verses for any of the above are available upon request.

Please answer bcbsr said in post #2. He presented you with verses that directly contradict what you're claiming. You've presented us with verses that support your version. I'd like to see what you have to say about ones that don't.

 

[BCsenior]

Please answer bcbsr said in post #2. He presented you with verses that directly contradict what you're claiming. You've presented us with verses that support your version. I'd like to see what you have to say about ones that don't.

Surely, I will answer.

bcbsr has caused all kinds of problems with his unbelief in other forums.

Did you know that disobedience causes unbelief and vice versa? (Hebrews 3 and 4)

In his first verse, he shows that he does not understand
what true saving belief really is in the new covenant.

The kindergarden verses like John 3:16 are simply to catch the little fishes!
They will be led by the Spirit into deeper understanding later,
IF they choose to co-operate, be obedient, etc.

In order to RECONCILE all of the NT verses,
true saving belief must include several things:
enduring belief-faith, obedience, on-going repentance,
NO habitual sinning, practicing righteousness instead of lawlessness, etc.

 

[Aldebaran]

Surely, I will answer.

bcbsr has caused all kinds of problems with his unbelief in other forums.

Did you know that disobedience causes unbelief and vice versa? (Hebrews 3 and 4)

In his first verse, he shows that he does not understand
what true saving belief is in the new covenant.

In order to RECONCILE all of the NT verses,
true saving belief must include several things:
enduring belief-faith, obedience, on-going repentance,
NO habitual sinning, practicing righteousness instead of lawlessness, etc.

It sounds like it's not an actual gift from God then, and is rather the result of me enduring, obeying, practicing righteousness (even though they are as filthy rags), and therefore I'd have something to boast about in the end, which seems to contradict the idea that it is God's grace, which is not of myself.

 

[BCsenior]

It (BELIEF) sounds like it's not an actual gift from God then, and is rather the result of me enduring, obeying, practicing righteousness (even though they are as filthy rags), and therefore I'd have something to boast about in the end, which seems to contradict the idea that it is God's grace, which is not of myself.

God's original gift of GRACE to you was to enable you to BELIEVE.
(Before this time your righteousness was like filthy rags.)

Then, you received EVERYTHING, including Jesus' righteousness!
(See, no more filthy rags).

Next, you began to learn and see more clearly (through the Holy Spirit).

Then, you were/are held responsible for your part in your salvation.
You are accountable to God for walking how you were called to walk.
I.E. those who are righteous practice righteousness (1 John 3:7-10).
Those who actually LOVE Jesus actually OBEY Jesus (4 verses in John 14).
Who gets to heaven who do not love Jesus?
etc.

 

[Phil G]

You are hoping the NT verses you have seen are not serious!

Getting in Christ is a whole different deal than Staying in Christ.
Are the following "believers" still "in Christ"?
-- not practicing righteousness
-- practicing habitual (unrepentant) sin
-- not abiding in Jesus
-- not bearing fruit
-- not loving fellow believers
-- fell away from the faith
-- estranged from Christ
-- fell from grace
-- drew back to perdition
-- not allowed into the Kingdom of God/Christ
-- not allowed into the city of New Jerusalem
-- blotted out of the Book of Life
-- has unforgiveness towards someone
-- hates someone (analgous to murder)
... my memory fails me for more!
NT verses for any of the above are available upon request.

I'm sorry you cannot see the very obvious answer to your point on Staying in Christ. This is completely dependant on God Himself by the power of the Holy Spirit, not the believer. A sign that a person is truly saved is that they do stay in Christ and that the Holy Spirit remains in them as a guarantee of their salvation. He, not me, has sealed my salvation (2 Corinthians 1:22). If any person can undo the seal of the Holy Spirit, then that person is more powerful than God! And if a person's continued salvation is dependent on the believer, then it becomes a salvation of works which is not salvation at all!

As I have pointed out, if 'eternal' life can be removed, then it was never 'eternal 'in the first place. If salvation can be removed from a believer then they cannot have any 'assurance' in salvation. I am born again by the Holy Spirit. Just as with physical birth, I cannot be 'unborn' again. I cannot become 'unjustified', because I am justified by Jesus, not by my works. He doesn't just justify my initial salvation, He justifies all of my salvation!

I can guarantee that every believer has sinned today and fallen short of God's glory. That fact by your position would put our salvation in jeopardy for which we would now have to work to ensure our continued salvation instead of God bringing us to repentance because we are eternally saved.

Sadly, the implication of what you say makes a mockery of Jesus' once for all sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Aldebaran]

God's original gift of GRACE to you was to enable you to BELIEVE.
(Before this time your righteousness was like filthy rags.)

Then, you received EVERYTHING, including Jesus' righteousness!
(See, no more filthy rags).

Next, you began to learn and see more clearly (through the Holy Spirit).

Then, you were/are held responsible for your part in your salvation.
You are accountable to God for walking how you were called to walk.
I.E. those who are righteous practice righteousness (1 John 3:7-10).
Those who actually LOVE Jesus actually OBEY Jesus (4 verses in John 14).
Who gets to heaven who do not love Jesus?
etc.

Maybe someone who is about to die and asks Christ to remember them when He comes in His kingdom?

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm sorry you cannot see the very obvious answer to your point on Staying in Christ. This is completely dependant on God Himself by the power of the Holy Spirit, not the believer. A sign that a person is truly saved is that they do stay in Christ and that the Holy Spirit remains in them as a guarantee of their salvation. He, not me, has sealed my salvation (2 Corinthians 1:22). If any person can undo the seal of the Holy Spirit, then that person is more powerful than God! And if a person's continued salvation is dependent on the believer, then it becomes a salvation of works which is not salvation at all!

As I have pointed out, if 'eternal' life can be removed, then it was never 'eternal 'in the first place. If salvation can be removed from a believer then they cannot have any 'assurance' in salvation. I am born again by the Holy Spirit. Just as with physical birth, I cannot be 'unborn' again. I cannot become 'unjustified', because I am justified by Jesus, not by my works. He doesn't just justify my initial salvation, He justifies all of my salvation!

I can guarantee that every believer has sinned today and fallen short of God's glory. That fact by your position would put our salvation in jeopardy for which we would now have to work to ensure our continued salvation instead of God bringing us to repentance because we are eternally saved.

Sadly, the implication of what you say makes a mockery of Jesus' once for all sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.

I've seen members on this site post threads about how they're going crazy worrying that something they said or did might have cost them their salvation. I remember going through that in my earlier days, and it was nothing like the peace that we are told about in Christ. I was always fearful and doubtful.

1 John 5:13 says: "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life."

But if we're fearful and doubtful and driving ourselves crazy because we are always fearing that we may have lost our salvation and need to keep striving to get it back--and hope to God that we don't happen to die at a time when we are "out of salvation", then there is no peace to be had.

 

[Phil G]

I've seen members on this site post threads about how they're going crazy worrying that something they said or did might have cost them their salvation. I remember going through that in my earlier days, and it was nothing like the peace that we are told about in Christ. I was always fearful and doubtful.

1 John 5:13 says: "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life."

But if we're fearful and doubtful and driving ourselves crazy because we are always fearing that we may have lost our salvation and need to keep striving to get it back--and hope to God that we don't happen to die at a time when we are "out of salvation", then there is no peace to be had.

It is certainly a terrible thing to live in fear of the loss of salvation. This is why Jesus came and died a death He did not deserve so as we can be free of that fear. He suffered the punishment that all deserve so that a person who accepts that free gift will never have to.

What a wonderful message this is. And what a burden it would be if we had to 'maintain' what He 'started' and didn't finish. I thank God that this isn't the case, otherwise I would be literally damned.

Just as you say, many are suffering after hearing the false gospel of having to maintain their salvation instead of trusting God that He did accomplish all that is necessary for a believer's salvation. It reminds of the 'Judaizers' so heavily criticised by the apostle Paul in Galatians.

 

[Aldebaran]

It is certainly a terrible thing to live in fear of the loss of salvation. This is why Jesus came and died a death He did not deserve so as we can be free of that fear. He suffered the punishment that all deserve so that a person who accepts that free gift will never have to.

What a wonderful message this is. And what a burden it would be if we had to 'maintain' what He 'started' and didn't finish. I thank God that this isn't the case, otherwise I would be literally damned.

Just as you say, many are suffering after hearing the false gospel of having to maintain their salvation instead of trusting God that He did accomplish all that is necessary for a believer's salvation. It reminds of the 'Judaizers' so heavily criticised by the apostle Paul in Galatians.

So would I. Thankfully, Jesus is the author of our faith, and is also the finisher of it. Some people think Jesus starts it, and then we either continue it or finish it ourselves. In my time, I would have finished it long ago, which means I myself would be finished.
Hebrews 12:2--looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.