Seventh-day Adventists affirm "sola scriptura testing" AND The 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy

[BobRyan]

Belief #1 - of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs

1. Holy Scriptures

The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)​

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

=========================

And at the same time Adventists affirm the 1 Cor 12 gift of prophecy where prophets speak with "prophetic authority" (obviously) because they are "moved by the Holy Spirit and speak from God" 2 Peter 1:19-21

21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (NIV)

21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (NASB 1955)

So then this applies to

• Anna in the temple at the time of Christ's birth. A prophet.
• Agabus in the book of Acts predicting events in Jerusalem
• Philip's four daughters
• Deborah - a judge and prophet in Israel in the book of Judges
• all the prophets in Corinth as we see in 1 Cor 14 "each one has a revelation"

Ephesians 4 tells us that the gifts remain until the second coming.

================

Yet we are to prove all doctrine "sola scriptura" and so then "test the prophets" as 1 John 4 says - rather than just accept that anyone who claims to be a true prophet of God - really is one.

They "test Paul" in Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

============================
And of course any time a doctrinal dispute arises in the church - the leading teachers/scholars etc meet (and in some cases all the world-church meets via representatives) - find agreement with scripture that is understood by the group - no matter that few voices of dissent may still exist. (see Acts 15)

Please note in the title - this is a "sola scriptura" thread as opposed to "I only quote Ellen White in my 'All Ellen White All the time agenda' that some have had.

 

[BobRyan]

We have seen in other threads the "sola scriptura" case for pre-Advent Judgment in Daniel 7. So that is an example where both the Bible and even a more recent example of a prophet - affirm the doctrine of a pre-advent judgement where "the court sits, the books were opened" Dan 7:9-10 and "Judgment is passed in favor of the saints" Dan 7:22 before he second coming of Christ and after 1260 years of persecution of the saints. (As noted in another recent thread here)

As we will see later - the judgment in heaven seen in Dan 7 -- happens as part of the second phase of Christ's High Priestly mininstry in heaven's Sanctuary - which is typified by the "Day of Atoenment" service on Earth in the OT.

=============================
But Christ began His High Priestly work in Heaven Heb 8:1-5 at His ascension and that involved the first phase of God's two-phase ministry design (which is called the daily service in the OT sanctuary) as we see in this part of the book of Hebrews.

==============================

1. Blood sacrifice "offered up" on the cross. But the Day of Atonement work did not begin until the 2nd phase of the Heavenly Sanctuary would later start.

2.So Heb 4,6,9 clearly point to the daily service ongoing at the time of the writing of the book of Hebrews --

=======================================

Blood is offered up on the altar of sacrifice - which is done once for all

Heb 7:
26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens; 27 who has no daily need, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices,

But then He goes to heaven - starts up the sanctuary service - and begins the holy place ministry where the blood is being claimed for forgiveness of sins being confessed which results in cleansing the conscience as Heb 9 and 10 point out - for the confessing those sins.

The washing and sprinkling refers to the daily service where the sinner is confessing sins and being cleansed as a result of the work of Christ - as High Priest in the sanctuary - which is the daily service.

Heb 9:
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things having come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made by hands, that is, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all time, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 10:
19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, through His flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let’s approach God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

The "veil" in Heb 10 - is stated as being "His flesh" - His sacrifice on the cross.

Individuals being cleansed and forgiven as they confess -- that's the daily service - for the sinner confessing sins and being forgiven.

1 John 1:2
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[BobRyan]

Therefore it is "Biblical" to accept the Bible teaching on what a prophet is and their role in the church.

Notice in Numbers 12:6 " He said,
“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.
I shall speak with him in a dream."

1 Cor 12:
27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts.

 

[Leaf473]

Belief #1 - of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs

1. Holy Scriptures

The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)​

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

=========================

And at the same time Adventists affirm the 1 Cor 12 gift of prophecy where prophets speak with "prophetic authority" (obviously) because they are "moved by the Holy Spirit and speak from God" 2 Peter 1:19-21

21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (NIV)

21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (NASB 1955)

So then this applies to

• Anna in the temple at the time of Christ's birth. A prophet.
• Agabus in the book of Acts predicting events in Jerusalem
• Philip's four daughters
• Deborah - a judge and prophet in Israel in the book of Judges
• all the prophets in Corinth as we see in 1 Cor 14 "each one has a revelation"

Ephesians 4 tells us that the gifts remain until the second coming.

================

Yet we are to prove all doctrine "sola scriptura" and so then "test the prophets" as 1 John 4 says - rather than just accept that anyone who claims to be a true prophet of God - really is one.

They "test Paul" in Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

============================
And of course any time a doctrinal dispute arises in the church - the leading teachers/scholars etc meet (and in some cases all the world-church meets via representatives) - find agreement with scripture that is understood by the group - no matter that few voices of dissent may still exist. (see Acts 15)

Hi Bob,

How many prophets do you believe there have been in, say, the last 100 years?

What do SDA's teach?

 

[tall73]

Belief #1 - of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs

1. Holy Scriptures

The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)​

5)

Here is how Ellen White handled people bringing Scripture arguments against the Adventist special points of faith in her time.


We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {1SM 161.2}

She appealed to experience.

 

[pasifika]

Belief #1 - of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs

1. Holy Scriptures

The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)​

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

=========================

And at the same time Adventists affirm the 1 Cor 12 gift of prophecy where prophets speak with "prophetic authority" (obviously) because they are "moved by the Holy Spirit and speak from God" 2 Peter 1:19-21

21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (NIV)

21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (NASB 1955)

So then this applies to

• Anna in the temple at the time of Christ's birth. A prophet.
• Agabus in the book of Acts predicting events in Jerusalem
• Philip's four daughters
• Deborah - a judge and prophet in Israel in the book of Judges
• all the prophets in Corinth as we see in 1 Cor 14 "each one has a revelation"

Ephesians 4 tells us that the gifts remain until the second coming.

================

Yet we are to prove all doctrine "sola scriptura" and so then "test the prophets" as 1 John 4 says - rather than just accept that anyone who claims to be a true prophet of God - really is one.

They "test Paul" in Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

============================
And of course any time a doctrinal dispute arises in the church - the leading teachers/scholars etc meet (and in some cases all the world-church meets via representatives) - find agreement with scripture that is understood by the group - no matter that few voices of dissent may still exist. (see Acts 15)

Hello Bob,
If Prophets were speaking through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit then there is always 100% accuracy of their prophecies..

But,if a prophet fail in her or his prophecies or interpretation of prophecies then there is Not from the Holy Spirit...(false prophets)

 

[ChetSinger]

I believe there are still prophets in the church. I just don't believe Ellen White ever qualified.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe there are still prophets in the church. I just don't believe Ellen White ever qualified.

SDAs don't expect non-SDAs to think Ellen White was a prophet - our focus is "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob,
If Prophets were speaking through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit then there is always 100% accuracy of their prophecies..

True but as we see with Jonah and Moses -- certain prophecies are conditional.

Moses did not go Egypt and say to the Jews "lets all go out and die in the wilderness".
Jonah did not say to Ninevah "you will not be destroyed in 40 days"

But they were true prophets.

Jer 18 spells out the reason.

Jer 18:5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 6 “Am I not able, house of Israel, to deal with you as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, house of Israel. 7 At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot it, to tear it down, or to destroy it; 8 if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I planned to bring on it. 9 Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; 10 if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will relent of the good with which I said that I would bless it. 11 So now, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, ‘This is what the Lord says:​

however - my point on this thread is not that we begin by asking non-SDAs about Ellen White - our practice with prophets and all Bible doctrine - is -- "sola scriptura testing" -- there is no shortcut around that.

 

[BobRyan]

So then responding (apparently) to one of my posts making no reference at all to "Ellen White" - we have this --

Here is how Ellen White handled people bringing Scripture arguments ...

I find it "instructive" when someone wants to have an "all Ellen White Quoting exchange" avoiding the Bible when possible -- even when a sola-scriptura testing thread like this one comes up.

But since you insist - here we see how Ellen White addressed the issue of sharing Bible doctrine and answering serious questions from those who are interested in learning about the subject but have objections to the POV we have accepted.

"They themselves are spoken to, earnestly, and with a kindhearted solicitude. They are allowed to express their objections freely, and these objections can each be met with a “Thus saith the Lord.” If this work is done in humility, by those whose hearts are imbued with the love of God, the words are fulfilled, “The entrance of Thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding to the simple.”—Letter 95, 1896. {Ev 463.4}

"With the Bible in hand, he should seek in a courteous manner to learn the objections which exist in the minds of those who are beginning to inquire, “What is truth?” Carefully and tenderly should he lead and educate them, as pupils in a school. ... They need the tenderest sympathy and the most judicious help; they should be carefully instructed, and should be prayed for and prayed with, watched and guarded with the kindest solicitude." {GW 190.1}

"I saw that we must be prepared for objections, and with patience, judgment and meekness let them have the weight they deserve, and not throw them away, and dispose of them by positive assertions, and bear down upon the objector, and manifest a hard spirit towards him, but give the objections their weight, then bring forth the light and the power of the truth, and let it outweigh, and remove the errors; and then a good impression will be left, and they will acknowledge that they have been deceived, and that the commandment-keepers are not what they have been represented to be." {ExV54 20.2} {EW 102.1}

"Present to the people such subjects as will strengthen their confidence in God and in His Word, and lead them to investigate its teachings for themselves. And as they go forward, step by step, in the study of the Bible, they will be better prepared to appreciate the beauty and harmony of its precious truths.—The Review and Herald, June 13, 1912. {Ev 485.1}


“(by some) The Word of God is made to appear mysterious and obscure in order to excuse transgression of His law. Christ rebuked these practices in His day. He taught that the Word of God was to be understood by all. He pointed to the Scriptures as of unquestionable authority, and we should do the same. The Bible is to be presented as the word of the infinite God, as the end of all controversy and the foundation of all faith. {ST, May 9, 1906 par. 8}

“The subject of Christ's teaching was the Word of God. He met questioners with a plain, "It is written;" "What saith the Scriptures?" "How readest thou?" At every opportunity, when an interest was awakened by either friend or foe, He sowed the seed of the Word. He who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, Himself the living Word, points to the Scriptures, saying, "They are they which testify of Me." {ST, May 9, 1906 par. 9}

"When God’s Word is studied, comprehended, and obeyed, a bright light will be reflected to the world; new truths, received and acted upon, will bind us in strong bonds to Jesus. The Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be our creed, the sole bond of union; all who bow to this Holy Word will be in harmony. Our own views and ideas must not control our efforts. Man is fallible, but God’s Word is infallible. Instead of wrangling with one another, let men exalt the Lord. Let us meet all opposition as did our Master, saying, “It is written.” Let us lift up the banner on which is inscribed, The Bible our rule of faith and discipline.—The Review and Herald, December 15, 1885. {1SM 416.2}

as for a scholarly work on the Sanctuary and the Atonement -

in 1981 we have “The Sanctuary and the Atonement” published by the Biblical Research Committee of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.

=================

Now back to the topic.

 

[ChetSinger]

SDAs don't expect non-SDAs to think Ellen White was a prophet - our focus is "sola scriptura" testing of all doctrine.

What's the solution when another "sola scriptura" church disagrees on a doctrine?

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Bob,

How many prophets do you believe there have been in, say, the last 100 years?

What do SDA's teach?

In the past 200 years there have been a few - but only God has the exact number.

There is no Bible doctrine dictating the exact number of genuine prophets that have lived on planet earth for any 200 year period of time - as far as know.

 

[BobRyan]

What's the solution when another "sola scriptura" church disagrees on a doctrine?

In every case its a review of the Bible and the Bible alone.

Each person has free will and can reject what they wish - but the Bible is the ultimate authority and standard. In any sort of difference, agreement can only be reached by appealing to a common accepted standard of truth. There is no way around it.

 

[tall73]

So then responding (apparently) to one of my posts making no reference at all to "Ellen White"

You have a reference to the fundamental belief of the Adventist church that speaks of Ellen White. Was that an accident? The fundamental belief says her writings speak with "prophetic authority". You put in quotes "prophetic authority", and referred to Adventist beliefs.

And at the same time Adventists affirm the 1 Cor 12 gift of prophecy where prophets speak with "prophetic authority" (obviously) because they are "moved by the Holy Spirit and speak from God" 2 Peter 1:19-21

Compare:

https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

The Gift of Prophecy
The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.

The thread is in the denomination specific theology section. You referenced Adventist beliefs and quoted from language from the section referring to Ellen White.

And in the very next post you again referenced Ellen White. You stated:

So that is an example where both the Bible and even a more recent example of a prophet - affirm the doctrine of a pre-advent judgement

Who is the "even more recent example of a prophet" that affirms the pre-advent judgment Bob? You did in fact reference Ellen White here.

I find it "instructive" when someone wants to have an "all Ellen White Quoting exchange" avoiding the Bible when possible -- even when a sola-scriptura testing thread like this one comes up.

This is on topic Bob, as it is an example of testing of a prophet by Scripture in your own faith tradition.

I agree, it is instructive that Ellen White avoided the Bible when dealing with just such an occasion of testing, when Ballenger presented scripture that he could not reconcile with the Adventist teaching, and asked Ellen White, considered a prophet, to show him scripture to back up her ideas.

Here are some selections of a letter from Ballenger to Ellen White:


What I am pleading for in this letter, is, that if there be a 'thus saith the Lord' to support your statement, that, out of compassion for my soul you furnish it.

And a bit later:

And now Sister White, what can I do? If I accept the testimony of the Scriptures, if I follow my conscientious convictions, I find myself under your condemnation; and you call me a wolf in sheep's clothing, and warn my brethren and the members of my family against me. But when I turn in my sorrow to the Word of the Lord, that Word reads the same, and I fear to reject God's interpretation and accept yours. Oh that I might accept both. But if I must accept but one, hadn't I better accept the Lord's? If I reject his word and accept yours, can you save me in the judgment?

Should she not have provided the Scriptures to correct him?

Instead she said the following:

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {1SM 161.2}

She appealed to experience.

 

[ChetSinger]

In every case its a review of the Bible and the Bible alone.

Each person has free will and can reject what they wish - but the Bible is the ultimate authority and standard. In any sort of difference, agreement can only be reached by appealing to a common accepted standard of truth. There is no way around it.

That works for me. So I'm fine worshipping on Sunday instead of the Sabbath, and eating pork and shellfish, because the Bible says "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath." And if any prophet says otherwise then the Bible wins. (And yes, I admit I'm being a bit of a troll here. So take me only as seriously as you wish.)

 

[ChetSinger]

...Here are some selections of a letter from Ballenger to Ellen White:

What I am pleading for in this letter, is, that if there be a 'thus saith the Lord' to support your statement, that, out of compassion for my soul you furnish it.

And a bit later:

And now Sister White, what can I do? If I accept the testimony of the Scriptures, if I follow my conscientious convictions, I find myself under your condemnation; and you call me a wolf in sheep's clothing, and warn my brethren and the members of my family against me. But when I turn in my sorrow to the Word of the Lord, that Word reads the same, and I fear to reject God's interpretation and accept yours. Oh that I might accept both. But if I must accept but one, hadn't I better accept the Lord's? If I reject his word and accept yours, can you save me in the judgment?

Should she not have provided the Scriptures to correct him?

Instead she said the following:

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {1SM 161.2}

She appealed to experience.

Thanks, this is instructive. I think it illustrates that it's not the scriptures themselves, since all churches have access to them, but the interpretation of them.

I'm sure you've noticed the Calvin-vs-Arminius threads that pop up regularly. I've seen one go on for more than 2,000 posts (it surpassed a 1,000-post limit twice). The two sides sometimes batter one another with the very same scriptures. It's no wonder people ask "which church should I join?".

 

[tall73]

Thanks, this is instructive. I think it illustrates that it's not the scriptures themselves, since all churches have access to them, but the interpretation of them.

I'm sure you've noticed the Calvin-vs-Arminius threads that pop up regularly. I've seen one go on for more than 2,000 posts (it surpassed a 1,000-post limit twice). The two sides sometimes batter one another with the very same scriptures. It's no wonder people ask "which church should I join?".

Yes, I have noticed.

Certainly people will have different interpretations of Scripture. But we see this even in the apostolic times. For instance, Paul in the book of Galatians, when addressing those who advocated that salvation came by law observance stated that he received the gospel from Jesus directly. But He still then referred to the Scriptures to prove that the law also showed that we are made right with God through faith.

And in the Acts 15 council when they were conferring to see what they should do with the Gentile converts Peter related his experience. But James noted how this experience was in line with Scripture:

Act 15:14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
Act 15:16 “‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it,
Act 15:17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things
Act 15:18 known from of old.’
Act 15:19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,

And as you perhaps allude to, some understand the Scriptures in light of how the church has understood them over the centuries.

Now as to interpretations, Seventh-day Adventists in their General Conference session, also noted that Ellen White's writings correct inaccurate interpretations of Scripture.

So your reference to interpretations is on topic:

Statement of Confidence in the Writings of Ellen G White - Adventist.org

We reaffirm our conviction that her writings are divinely inspired, truly Christ-centered, and Bible-based. Rather than replacing the Bible, they uplift the normative character of Scripture and correct inaccurate interpretations of it derived from tradition, human reason, personal experience, and modern culture.

 

[BobRyan]

Thanks, this is instructive. I think it illustrates that it's not the scriptures themselves, since all churches have access to them, but the interpretation of them.

I'm sure you've noticed the Calvin-vs-Arminius threads that pop up regularly. I've seen one go on for more than 2,000 posts (it surpassed a 1,000-post limit twice). The two sides sometimes batter one another with the very same scriptures. It's no wonder people ask "which church should I join?".

That is true.No matter the denomination - the only deciding authority is the Word of God - so in Acts 17:11 we see this in action across what we might call "denominations".

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things (spoken to them by the Apostle Paul) were so"

...
Now as to interpretations, Seventh-day Adventists in their General Conference session, ...

 

[BobRyan]

That works for me. So I'm fine worshipping on Sunday instead of the Sabbath, and eating pork and shellfish

And if we were to compare that practice to scripture we would look at the scriptures that deal with those topics and try to get the full Bible teaching on those two practices.

And if any prophet says otherwise then the Bible wins.

exactly

 

[BobRyan]

I posted this

Belief #1 - of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs

1. Holy Scriptures

The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)​

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

=========================

And at the same time Adventists affirm the 1 Cor 12 gift of prophecy where prophets speak with "prophetic authority" (obviously) because they are "moved by the Holy Spirit and speak from God" 2 Peter 1:19-21

21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (NIV)

21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (NASB 1955)

So then this applies to

• Anna in the temple at the time of Christ's birth. A prophet.
• Agabus in the book of Acts predicting events in Jerusalem
• Philip's four daughters
• Deborah - a judge and prophet in Israel in the book of Judges
• all the prophets in Corinth as we see in 1 Cor 14 "each one has a revelation"

Ephesians 4 tells us that the gifts remain until the second coming.

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Yet we are to prove all doctrine "sola scriptura" and so then "test the prophets" as 1 John 4 says - rather than just accept that anyone who claims to be a true prophet of God - really is one.

They "test Paul" in Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

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And of course any time a doctrinal dispute arises in the church - the leading teachers/scholars etc meet (and in some cases all the world-church meets via representatives) - find agreement with scripture that is understood by the group - no matter that few voices of dissent may still exist. (see Acts 15)

You quote and reply to it with this -

Here is how Ellen White handled people bringing Scripture arguments...

So I reply to that noting that my post did not mention Ellen White - but since that is your focus - here is what she said about sola scriptura and taking serious objections by allowing them to their full weight and seeing what the Bible says on the topic.

So then responding (apparently) to one of my posts making no reference at all to "Ellen White" - we have this --

...

I find it "instructive" when someone wants to have an "all Ellen White Quoting exchange" avoiding the Bible when possible -- even when a sola-scriptura testing thread like this one comes up.

But since you insist - here we see how Ellen White addressed the issue of sharing Bible doctrine and answering serious questions from those who are interested in learning about the subject but have objections to the POV we have accepted.

"They themselves are spoken to, earnestly, and with a kindhearted solicitude. They are allowed to express their objections freely, and these objections can each be met with a “Thus saith the Lord.” If this work is done in humility, by those whose hearts are imbued with the love of God, the words are fulfilled, “The entrance of Thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding to the simple.”—Letter 95, 1896. {Ev 463.4}

"With the Bible in hand, he should seek in a courteous manner to learn the objections which exist in the minds of those who are beginning to inquire, “What is truth?” Carefully and tenderly should he lead and educate them, as pupils in a school. ... They need the tenderest sympathy and the most judicious help; they should be carefully instructed, and should be prayed for and prayed with, watched and guarded with the kindest solicitude." {GW 190.1}

"I saw that we must be prepared for objections, and with patience, judgment and meekness let them have the weight they deserve, and not throw them away, and dispose of them by positive assertions, and bear down upon the objector, and manifest a hard spirit towards him, but give the objections their weight, then bring forth the light and the power of the truth, and let it outweigh, and remove the errors; and then a good impression will be left, and they will acknowledge that they have been deceived, and that the commandment-keepers are not what they have been represented to be." {ExV54 20.2} {EW 102.1}

"Present to the people such subjects as will strengthen their confidence in God and in His Word, and lead them to investigate its teachings for themselves. And as they go forward, step by step, in the study of the Bible, they will be better prepared to appreciate the beauty and harmony of its precious truths.—The Review and Herald, June 13, 1912. {Ev 485.1}


“(by some) The Word of God is made to appear mysterious and obscure in order to excuse transgression of His law. Christ rebuked these practices in His day. He taught that the Word of God was to be understood by all. He pointed to the Scriptures as of unquestionable authority, and we should do the same. The Bible is to be presented as the word of the infinite God, as the end of all controversy and the foundation of all faith. {ST, May 9, 1906 par. 8}

“The subject of Christ's teaching was the Word of God. He met questioners with a plain, "It is written;" "What saith the Scriptures?" "How readest thou?" At every opportunity, when an interest was awakened by either friend or foe, He sowed the seed of the Word. He who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, Himself the living Word, points to the Scriptures, saying, "They are they which testify of Me." {ST, May 9, 1906 par. 9}

"When God’s Word is studied, comprehended, and obeyed, a bright light will be reflected to the world; new truths, received and acted upon, will bind us in strong bonds to Jesus. The Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be our creed, the sole bond of union; all who bow to this Holy Word will be in harmony. Our own views and ideas must not control our efforts. Man is fallible, but God’s Word is infallible. Instead of wrangling with one another, let men exalt the Lord. Let us meet all opposition as did our Master, saying, “It is written.” Let us lift up the banner on which is inscribed, The Bible our rule of faith and discipline.—The Review and Herald, December 15, 1885. {1SM 416.2}

You have a reference to the fundamental belief of the Adventist church that speaks of Ellen White. Was that an accident?

The first three posts on this thread are mine - and they don't mention Ellen White nor do they mention a fundamental belief that speaks of Ellen White.

Here is the fundamental Belief I quote in the post you replied to --

1. Holy Scriptures

The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)​

I take it from your response - that when you read it you see "Ellen White" all over it? or are you talking about something "else"??

Did you mean that the title of the thread that mentions 1 Cor 12 and what it says about the gift of prophecy -- that this must be a quote of Ellen White or a quote of ???