Saving grace; a question.

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Greetings my Presbyterian brothers and sisters!
I have a question for you.

From the Reform perspective, is there a difference between prevenient grace (as taught by Wesleyans) and saving grace?

Thanks.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

pre·ven·ient
/prēˈvēnēənt/
Learn to pronounce

adjective
FORMAL

1. preceding in time or order; antecedent.
   "the prevenient eighteenth century justice system”
   
   Not sure the question

 

[spiritfilledjm]

pre·ven·ient
/prēˈvēnēənt/
Learn to pronounce

adjective
FORMAL

1. preceding in time or order; antecedent.
   "the prevenient eighteenth century justice system”
   
   Not sure the question

Prevenient grace - Wikipedia.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Greetings my Presbyterian brothers and sisters!
I have a question for you.

From the Reform perspective, is there a difference between prevenient grace (as taught by Wesleyans) and saving grace?

Thanks.

Grace and Justice aren’t the same thing

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I recently read an argument by a Reform author wherein he accused the Arminians (Wesleyans, E. Orthodox) of Semi-Pelagianism because they held to prevenient grace instead of saving grace (his term).

pre·ven·ient
/prēˈvēnēənt/
Learn to pronounce

adjective
FORMAL

1. preceding in time or order; antecedent.
   "the prevenient eighteenth century justice system”
   
   Not sure the question

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Prevenient grace - Wikipedia.

the phrase preceding grace would have a similar meaning, with the doctrine also being called conviction.[3]

that’s a head knowledge of what the shadow says and the commitment to stay there because it’s warm, knowing what? singularly from the point of spirituality would be the doves view.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Grace and Justice aren’t the same thing

Can you expound?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Can you expound?

Can you expound?

Justification is a given upon repentance (justly) but sanctifier/ sanctified is sanctification in the process of being human instead of doing humans. If justice were grace there would be no mercy in my honest opinion.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Interesting. So repentance is not a part of justification?

Justification is a given upon repentance (justly) but sanctifier/ sanctified is sanctification in the process of being human instead of doing humans. If justice were grace there would be no mercy in my honest opinion.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

So, if I understand the article correctly, because Arminians teach that prevenient grace is universal, but not everyone will come to faith, prevenient grace is not salvic in the strict sense of the term. Whereas for Calvinists, prevenient grace is salvic because it is only given to the Elect.
?

Prevenient grace - Wikipedia.

[/QUOTE]

 

[spiritfilledjm]

So, if I understand the article correctly, because Arminians teach that prevenient grace is universal, but not everyone will come to faith, prevenient grace is not salvic in the strict sense of the term. Whereas for Calvinists, prevenient grace is salvic because it is only given to the Elect.
?

[/QUOTE]

I do not know, nor am I Presbyterian, I just posted that in fellowship because it seemed that the one I was responding to was unsure of what it meant or if it was even a thing lol.

 

[Not David]

I recently read an argument by a Reform author wherein he accused the Arminians (Wesleyans, E. Orthodox) of Semi-Pelagianism because they held to prevenient grace instead of saving grace (his term).

Eastern Orthodox are not Arminians

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Interesting. So repentance is not a part of justification?

John B baptized unto repentance, but the spirit is represented as both water and fire, not sure if that’s ot/nt thing. Hebrews 6 outlines it as a type of string balance .. this is what I found searching for it, not the part of the meaowdow.
The Basket of Ripe Fruit
…4Hear this, you who trample the needy, who do away with the poor of the land, 5asking, “Whenwill the New Moon be over, that we may sellgrain? When will the Sabbath end, that we may market wheat? Let us reduce the ephah and increase the shekel; let us cheat with dishonestscales. 6Let us buy the poor with silver and the needy for a pair of sandals, selling even the chaff with the wheat!”…

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I don't think so either. But trying to find anything like a universal catechism is difficult, so double-checking claims made by individual Orthodox, is a headache. I know of one convert now E.O. priest who believes that his E.O. soteriological is essentially the same as what he was taught as a Methodist growing up. And at least one bookstore (I believe St. Vlad's has published a book on Orthodoxy and Methodists 'together', as it were). In trying to find out more, I was led down the trail of being told that Wesley was heavily influenced by the East.
The article by the Reform guy, lumped them in together, so I did as well.

Eastern Orthodox are not Arminians

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Eastern Orthodox are not Arminians

Would you mind explaining from your pov, the differences between Arminians and E. Orthodox as well as expounding on E. Orthodox soteriology in general (on the EO forum)?
Tag me.
Thanks.

 

[Clare73]

Greetings my Presbyterian brothers and sisters!
I have a question for you.

From the Reform perspective, is there a difference between prevenient grace (as taught by Wesleyans) and saving grace?

Thanks.

Absolutely! Saving grace is 100% effective.

 

[Not David]

Would you mind explaining from your pov, the differences between Arminians and E. Orthodox as well as expounding on E. Orthodox soteriology in general (on the EO forum)?
Tag me.
Thanks.

I'm currently at work so I cannot go into details but you should ask on the EO forum.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Absolutely! Saving grace is 100% effective.

Thank you. This is what I am looking for!

 

[hedrick]

The description in the Wikipedia article seems pretty OK. It’s just that from a Reformed perspective if God enables you to respond to the Gospel, you do. The good part of the definition is that it clarifies that God doesn’t force people to be saved or damned. He enables them to make responsible decisions. A lot of people don’t really understand the concept of compatibilism. However, as Clare73 says, when God saves us from the total depravity that Arminius agrees we have without God, we then actually do respond as saved people.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Can you expound?

Here is a good article for you that perhaps expounds on the issue more clearly:

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/grace-cooperative

As far as websites go, Ligonier ministries is an excellent resource. If you need more insight after reading the article I linked you to, just holler and I'll help out.