Reducing the Abortion Rate

[Archivist]

Studies have shown that the abortion rate can be greatly reduced. Providing access to free contraceptives or low-cost long-term reversible contraceptives, comprehensive sex education in schools (not just telling students to "just say no"), paid maternity leave and improved subsidized medical care have all been shown to significantly reduce the abortion rate. The following articles explain some of the choices in the poll; ironically one thing that does not seem to work in reducing the abortion rate is outlawing abortion:

Access to free birth control reduces abortion rates | Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis

We Already Know How To Safely Reduce Abortion Rates

https://www.usnews.com/news/data-mi...1/abortion-rates-where-and-why-theyre-falling

In your comments please identify whether you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life, and explain why you would or would not support the responses mentioned in the poll.

Keep any and all discussion civil or I will ask the mods to close the thread.

 

[SPF]

Pro-Life

Assuming the birth control methods don't kill already fertilized eggs, I would support everything you put in the poll.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Birth control usually means preventing fertilization from happening. The exception is Plan B, the so-called "morning-after pill." However, they do not always work and even if both partners are using contraceptiion the woman can get pregnant.

I am a big fan of more sex education. During grades 8 and 9 I learned about contraception methods: how effective they are, what they are, and the fact that because of "human error" none of them are perfect. It is not good enough to just teach those two words without explaining why. What human errors cause IUDs and condoms to fail? Is the fact that birth control pills are not 100% effective mainly because of mistakes by patients, drug makers, or doctors? How should women decide which contraceptive is the best for them if they choose to have sex? And for God's sake first trimester abortion needs to be included!

 

[dzheremi]

Simply outlawing abortion and expecting that to end or even drastically reduce the abortion rate is like expecting the fact that homicide is illegal to be the cause of reduced homicide rates. As if any murderer ever shows up to a police station and just blurts out "Gee, officer -- I didn't know you can't do that!"

I'm for all of the things in the poll, though obviously the particulars are much more difficult to hash out to everyone's satisfaction (basically impossible). I think the trope of "teaching kids about it will encourage them to do it" is one of those things that seems to make sense but is probably wrong (I was taught about drugs from a young age back in the 1980s/early 1990s with the D.A.R.E. program, and it never made me want to do them) when you consider how sexualized the general culture of the U.S. is. More than likely, their own hormones mixed together with peer pressure from their friends and media (both explicit pornography and the seemingly endless stream of "four friends make a pact to lose their virginity before college so that they won't be losers"-type movies aimed at teenagers who already have those exact anxieties that everyone but them is 'in the know') takes care of that job. If anything sex education -- when treated responsibly, with information rather than advocacy in mind ("this is a condom; this is their failure rate; here are some myths you may have heard about wearing them and why those myths are wrong/dangerous, etc.") -- can do a little bit to counteract the less-than-reliable messaging they're likely getting elsewhere.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Simply outlawing abortion and expecting that to end or even drastically reduce the abortion rate is like expecting the fact that homicide is illegal to be the cause of reduced homicide rates. As if any murderer ever shows up to a police station and just blurts out "Gee, officer -- I didn't know you can't do that!"

This is important. I read some people go to other states for abortions, so without a Supreme Court ruling, nothing will stop pregnant women from scheduling appointments. As it stands now, most experts think no action will be taken by the SCOTUS before the end of the Trump adminstration.

 

[visionary]

 

[GodLovesCats]

"If you controlled them a little better . . ." than what? It is not a woman's fault if a conctraception method fails. Some women who get abortions were using contraception when they got pregnant.

 

[Archivist]

"If you controlled them a little better . . ." than what? It is not a woman's fault if a conctraception method fails. Some women who get abortions were using contraception when they got pregnant.

Well said. And what about men controlling their bodies?

 

[GodLovesCats]

Well said. And what about men controlling their bodies?

If a woman uses contraception and the man does not, you have to criticize him first.

 

[dzheremi]

I think part of the reason mindsets like that cartoon expresses are common is because the potential of pregnancy is treated socially and politically as a strictly "woman's issue" -- i.e., if you don't have a womb, you must keep quiet on anything approaching this topic. So probably a lot of men, young and not, don't get the same strong message regarding their own responsibility in either making or preventing the pregnancy from happening, because what's most important (again, according to the social and political messaging) is that they support the woman's 'choice'.

Think about it: how many signs at abortion rallies (pro or con) do you see advocating contraception vs. "Stay out of my uterus!" or "Irresponsibility shouldn't be license to murder" or similar? It doesn't seem to be part of the conversation. It's all about the woman's womb, and much less about what goes into getting a baby into it, because again, no uterus = stay out of the conversation.

So of course the response is going to focus primary responsibility on the woman. The politics have kinda made it that way, even though women are only half of the equation.

 

[Archivist]

I think part of the reason mindsets like that cartoon expresses are common is because the potential of pregnancy is treated socially and politically as a strictly "woman's issue" -- i.e., if you don't have a womb, you must keep quiet on anything approaching this topic. So probably a lot of men, young and not, don't get the same strong message regarding their own responsibility in either making or preventing the pregnancy from happening, because what's most important (again, according to the social and political messaging) is that they support the woman's 'choice'.

Think about it: how many signs at abortion rallies (pro or con) do you see advocating contraception vs. "Stay out of my uterus!" or "Irresponsibility shouldn't be license to murder" or similar? It doesn't seem to be part of the conversation. It's all about the woman's womb, and much less about what goes into getting a baby into it, because again, no uterus = stay out of the conversation.

So of course the response is going to focus primary responsibility on the woman. The politics have kinda made it that way, even though women are only half of the equation.

Sadly you are probably right, despite the fact that men are 50% responsibile.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Actually if you look at pictures and videos of abortion ban protest rallies you will see many people holding signs are men. Of course it could be just a few men here and there but people are rallying in all 50 states so that adds up to a lot of male protesters.

 

[visionary]

Actually if you look at pictures and videos of abortion ban protest rallies you will see many people holding signs are men. Of course it could be just a few men here and there but people are rallying in all 50 states so that adds up to a lot of male protesters.

They probably want all the fun and no responsibility too.

 

[GodLovesCats]

They probably want all the fun and no responsibility too.

Most likely because men don't feel like they have a responsibility unless they are actually dads.

 

[visionary]

https://www.lifenews.com/2016/04/26...SlpCWPGbR4zSOMG4jOarZifuR0lJCCRAg9Lf5clEzhUqA

 

[SPF]

https://www.lifenews.com/2016/04/26...SlpCWPGbR4zSOMG4jOarZifuR0lJCCRAg9Lf5clEzhUqA

"Scientists said the intensity of the flash appears to indicate the egg’s quality and the embryo’s future health, and the finding could help doctors choose good eggs and embryos for in vitro fertilization. Though very young, embryos used for IVF are living human beings. Pre-selecting embryos could mean some human lives will be destroyed and never given the chance to live."

This is where I would think as Christians we should have more common ground. As Christians, we know that God created us in His Image and that all humans, regardless of age, race, and gender are morally valuable. It is nothing short of immoral to intentionally kill an innocent human being at any age.

 

[God saves]

I believe that abortion is wrong.

I would support subsidised medical care and paid maternity leave if it meant reducing the abortion rate because I think that all mothers should have access to prenatal and postnatal care for the sake of their child and for their own wellbeing.

A challenge I see with "comprehensive sex education" in schools is that schools may not necessarily take a position on abortion or may possibly tell students abortion is "acceptable", and may not necessarily instruct students in the way a Christian parent against abortion may want.

I also think that perhaps there could also be better services for infants, toddlers and young children including those with additional needs, more accessible parenting information, and better family services that parents can receive the support they need in order to properly raise and instruct their child; perhaps this could also help eliminate abortions.

 

[DennisTate]

You might find this other discussion somewhat encouraging?

Could a Basic Minimum Income for all Americans decrease abortions?