Racism and Antisemitism and personal opinion

[Ken-1122]

Race - maybe the only pure race. This means genetic or DNA.

I disagree. Judaism is a religion, but it is also a culture (many religions are cultures), not a race. Race-wise, Jews of Israel are no different than all the other Arabs of that region; they are all Semites originating from the Caucasus of of Southern Russia AKA Caucasian.

Science does not use the word race anymore because there is so little purity.

No; science does not use race because it is a social construct; a completely made-up label.

They go by the one-drop rule, which goes back to the ‎Antebellum era and was even law at one time.

NOBODY goes by the one drop rule, that was completely made up as well during slavery as a way to determine who can legally be enslaved.

 

[RDKirk]

Race - maybe the only pure race.

That may be true of Sephardic Jews, but not the Ashkenazi Jews that were in Germany.

 

[RDKirk]

NOBODY goes by the one drop rule, that was completely made up as well during slavery as a way to determine who can legally be enslaved.

I agree with the bulk of your post, except that there is a new salient among young black people that reverses the one-drop rule to a degree. They dispute anyone calling themselves "black" if they have any visually identifiable degree of genetic whiteness, even if the white ancestor was generations back.

There idea--mostly mistaken, but with some element of truth--is that anyone who doesn't look purely African has a color advantage in the US. That's a little true, but not wholly true, and it's dying out with the Boomer and older generations.

 

[Diamond7]

That may be true of Sephardic Jews, but not the Ashkenazi Jews that were in Germany.

There is a lot of inbreeding because of their lack of genetic diversity.

 

[jacks]

Commercial DNA tests (Like My Heritage) may very well come back saying you are a Jew. I believe in Israel whether you are Jewish or not depends on if your mother was. So it appears it isn't clear if it is a believe, hereditary or genetic. That's probably why it is confusing.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

That may be true of Sephardic Jews, but not the Ashkenazi Jews that were in Germany.

That's not necessarily true, I'm Sephardic and look like my Western European neighbors. Back when I cared I had our family geology going back to the early 900s in Spain. I couldn't get back to the foot of Moun Sani with Moses and Aaron like a lot of Jews I know. But then, just about every veteran I meet was a SEAL, Ranger, Green Beret, Marine Force Recon, or some other high speed tactical operator. So I'm not sure about how accurate the genealogies are.

And the Ashkenazi are from more than just Germany. France all the way to the Russian Far East and every thing in between, sometimes even coexisting with Sephardic communities.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't think Jewism is a race but a culture/ ethnicity; as well as a religion (like many religions). Race is about physical characteristics, ethnicity is something often anybody can join.

Actually race can pertain to any characteristics....like immorality or sexual proclivity.

And it only means whatever gets mapped onto it...to those people who hold racist beliefs.

As for the jews....it's socially constructed, they can identify as they please. There's no "factual" understanding of race anyone can have.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Whoopi's detractors about that particular issue raise a question that nobody is stepping in to answer:

Does "Jew" designate a race or a religion?

That's because we know the answer....it's "yes".


I would imagine those around Whoopi didn't feel comfortable explaining it to her. Lots of talk about what sort of subject matter you can speak about these days.

For sure, the Nazis characterized "Jew" as a racial distinction.

Right.

But they also characterized Poles and Slavs as racial distinctions.

Yup.

At the time Hitler was creating his politics, most Europeans still considered Europe to be comprised by different "races," even though they were all "white."

Correct.

Yet, most of her detractors (for that statement) presented Nazi statements as "proof" that the Holocaust was a matter of "race."

Well Nazi statements would be the place to look....

Whoopi asserted, explicitly, that it's stupid to use the Nazi definitions of "race," because their definition was politically crafted specifically to designate ethnic groups they intended to enslave or exterminate. Why would we continue to use Nazi definitions of anything?

Because we are examining Nazi motives for genocide?

Seems like a pretty good reason.

One article quoted Whoopi having said, that German Jews couldn't be distinguished from other Germans on the street, to which the article writer responed--unironically, in her mind--"Of course they could...they were required to wear arm bands!"

I'm sure plenty of people knew who was Jewish.

Whoopi certainly did not deny the Holocaust, only that the Nazis were driven by hatred of many groups rather than simple racism.

Well it was more complicated than mere racial hatred I think....but racist motivation was there for certain.

 

[RDKirk]

That's because we know the answer....it's "yes".


I would imagine those around Whoopi didn't feel comfortable explaining it to her. Lots of talk about what sort of subject matter you can speak about these days.




Right.




Yup.





Correct.




Well Nazi statements would be the place to look....




Because we are examining Nazi motives for genocide?

Seems like a pretty good reason.





I'm sure plenty of people knew who was Jewish.




Well it was more complicated than mere racial hatred I think....but racist motivation was there for certain.

And in all that is the best argument that race is just a social construct.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And in all that is the best argument that race is just a social construct.

Exactly, it's not that the Nazis had it right and we have it wrong or vice versa....it's not a category that reflects a concept that exists in our minds...

There's a group of northern Chinese with blonde hair and occasionally, blue eyes. I forget if the theory is they were related to some long lost Roman expedition....but they have blonde hair and blue eyes lol.

We mentally sort of hone in on certain features, but it's something that has no real meaning. The physical features stand out because our brains have evolved to look for patterns. The meaning we ascribe to these patterns is our own.

 

[Ken-1122]

Actually race can pertain to any characteristics....like immorality or sexual proclivity.

I disagree; race is about your physical features; not your moral characteristics.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I disagree; race is about your physical features; not your moral characteristics.

So if someone were to say that they believed black people are "sexually promiscuous/prone to criminality/lazy/etc." those wouldn't be racist beliefs to you?

 

[YeshuaFollower]

Part of the tragic silliness is that to assert that Jews form a race, progressives must use the Nazi definitions of race and the Nazi declaration that Jews are a race.

Why would we want to accept the Nazi definitions of race? Why would we want to accept any Nazi declaration of race? The Nazis also declared that Slavs and Poles are separate races...are we accepting that?

There is only ONE human race no more. Variations in skin color to for me is like people with different hair color no more. In my opinion we have to stop using color and point fingers we are all human from the ONE creator. As for Jews it is the same problem , this time we identify people as Jews because of their religion? this is wrong we are all the same under the sun period. the criminal minds of the nazi movement was wrong and is plainly and totally the work of Satan.

I love you all.

Blessings

JFF

 

[Ken-1122]

So if someone were to say that they believed black people are "sexually promiscuous/prone to criminality/lazy/etc." those wouldn't be racist beliefs to you?

It would.

 

[RDKirk]

So if someone were to say that they believed black people are "sexually promiscuous/prone to criminality/lazy/etc." those wouldn't be racist beliefs to you?

I disagree; race is about your physical features; not your moral characteristics.

What we see here is the difference between aesthetics and race.

Two thousand years ago, people distinguished between aesthetic differences and ethnic differences, and did not attribute personality characteristics specifically to aesthetic qualities.

Or when they did, they did it across the board. A man with narrow-set eyes might be considered untrustworthy regardless of skin color.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What we see here is the difference between aesthetics and race.

I don't know what you think the whole racial thing was about....but it involved less tangible qualities than you might think.

Two thousand years ago,

2000 years ago 99% of people never saw anyone who didn't look a lot themselves.

people distinguished between aesthetic differences and ethnic differences,

Well I think they'd call them tribal differences.

and did not attribute personality characteristics specifically to aesthetic qualities.

Not true....it's just a narrower range of characteristics.

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Or when they did, they did it across the board. A man with narrow-set eyes might be considered untrustworthy regardless of skin color.

You're focusing in on skin color....


What's the difference between saying men with narrow set eyes are treacherous and men with dark skin are treacherous?

 

[Ana the Ist]

What we see here is the difference between aesthetics and race.

Two thousand years ago, people distinguished between aesthetic differences and ethnic differences, and did not attribute personality characteristics specifically to aesthetic qualities.

Or when they did, they did it across the board. A man with narrow-set eyes might be considered untrustworthy regardless of skin color.

Let me put it this way....when you think of the "Asian race" do you still think of a skin color difference? Or are you sort of mentally mapping out a different set of characteristics that include lidded eyes, dark hair, and maybe low nose bridges?

Do you have a very common non-physical characteristic you map onto them as well? Maybe intelligence or passivity?

 

[Ken-1122]

Let me put it this way....when you think of the "Asian race" do you still think of a skin color difference? Or are you sort of mentally mapping out a different set of characteristics that include lidded eyes, dark hair, and maybe low nose bridges?

I never think of “Asian” as a race, when I think of Asian, I think of anybody from the Continent of Asia; not just far East Asia, any part of Asia. That pretty much includes anybody except Sub Saharan African looking people. It not only includes light skinned dark hair people from far East Asia (Orient) (Japan, Korea, China, etc). but it also includes brown skinned dark haired people from Middle East Asia, (Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc.) or white looking people from Russia. Of course many ignorant Americans only look at one small part of Asia (far east) and only think of that as Asia.