question for those who pray to Saints, Mary, etc..

[christianmomof3]

Hi, I have a question for those of you who pray to or thorough people who are physically dead.
I have read enough to know that you think they are not dead, but still, they are physically dead and I don't know what else you call them. Do you have another term for them if you don't call them dead? (No offense intended, I just have no idea what you call physically dead people since I have seen on many threads that many people insist they are not dead.)

I also have seen replies that to you it is like asking another living person to pray for you.

What I want to know is, do these physically dead people reply or respond to you? How do you know they hear your prayers?

If I speak to a living person and ask them to pray for something, they answer me and so I know they have heard my request and will join me in prayer.

When I pray to God, I touch Him in my spirit and I know that He is hearing my prayers because I can contact Him because He is God. I have a response from Him. He witnesses with my spirit.

So, if you pray to people who are not physically alive, do they talk or respond to you?
I do not mean to offend anyone's beliefs by this question, but I have been thinking about it since I have read so many threads on here about people praying to people who are not physically alive and I have been wondering why you would want to do that since you can pray directly to God and the answer that I have seen is that it is like asking living people to pray, but with living people there is a response involved.
So, I am still trying to figure out why people would do that.
Thank you for your kind and considerate responses in advance.

 

[gzt]

Well, frankly, I don't get much of a response from God these days, either.

 

[Assisi]

Hi!

I ask saints to pray for me sometimes when I know that in their life they were in a similar position to one I am in at the time. I never hear a response from them, but I do see in my life that my petitions are answered.

One time my husband and I prayed for the youth at our church who were on a spiritual retreat and we ended with the litany of the saints, which is basically, 'saint Peter, pray for us, Saint Paul, pray for us' etc. It goes through a whole lot of famous saints. It felt wonderful to be praying with a community of people so in love with God! The communion of saints! I could almost see our prayers 'rising like incence before God's altar' like in revelation. It was a powerful moment of prayer for me. I felt that God was letting me know that my husband and I were not alone in our prayers for the youth.

In answer to your other questions:

We call those who have died in Christ, those who are with God in heaven, the saints. And that is how we refer to them when we are praying with them.

As to why we ask them to pray for us, I would say it's because they are righteous people. And the Bible talks about the efficacy of the prayer of a righteous man. We only ask those in heaven to pray for us. Those in heaven are perfected in Christ so they're pretty righteous. I guess we believe that they are powerful prayerful people, so it's good to ask them to pray for us. Also, I think it shows God that we love our brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also think that we are only able to do this because God lets us. It is through God that we are able to ask saints to pray for us.

Thanks for your question. It really wasn't offensive, I hope my reply isn't either! If any of it is, I didn't mean it to be!

 

[stivvy]

.....It felt wonderful to be praying with a community of people so in love with God! The communion of saints! I could almost see our prayers 'rising like incence before God's altar' like in revelation. It was a powerful moment of prayer for me. I felt that God was letting me know that my husband and I were not alone in our prayers for the youth....

I feel the same thing many times when in deep prayer. And your soul leep inside you and you can definately feel the spirit of the saints responding to your very spirit.

Try it, if you are sincere, you will feel it too.

 

[Asinner]

Blessings Christianmomof3

This is a good article with many patristics, including Athanasius.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/invocationofsaints.aspx

 

[Peaceful Dove]

Thank you for asking in the beautiful Spirit that you did.
It is rare that you ask this question without a hint of judgement and I really do love you for it.

I can't add very much to what has been said. I can say I have seen some miracles in my life that confirm to me that the Lord blessed my prayer for intercession.
I will mention the biggest one.
There was a time in my life, a very low time. As I have mentioned, I love babies. I wanted up to 10 if God would bless us with them.
I had my oldest son and then I didn't get pregnant again for 6 years and then I lost my baby at almost 5 months, a little boy I ended up naming Michael.
After 10 years of marriage, my husband lost a job he really liked. It was devestating to him.
I prayed and prayed and then asked St Martin de Porres to pray for me that God would do something to lift his spirits.
I don't know why I picked St Martin de Porres, I think I had read about him and his humble life impressed me.
The next thing I knew I was pregnant. My husband just shook his head. He was going to be without insurance. No job and I had very bad pregnancies, my doctor and other doctors said I could not carry another child. It looked like a disaster but I had the urge to have faith. As it turned out, our insurance was good for only 9 months after the last day of Al's termination. Well, the doctor was so sure I would not go to term, he told me I could do anything except roller skate, for fear of a fall. We had horses then so I continued to ride up until 8 months. In the meantime Al did get another job but had to be there for a year before we had insurance.
I went full term, had a very easy pregnancy and my son Kevin Martin was born 9 months to the day from the date of termination, on the Feast day of St. Martin de Porres.
The entire pregnancy and delivery was covered by the old insurance policy. I had a healthy, wonderful baby boy.
I lost another one 10 yrs later and at that time, the doctors all but insisted on a hysterectomy. They could not understand how I maintained a full term pregnancy with Kevin.
2 1/2 years ago, when I lay on a radiation table receiving treatments for Lung Cancer, I asked St Martin de Porres again to pray for me. I spoke to other saints too but I also asked my little infant Michael to pray for me and also the other babe in Heaven, we never knew if it was a boy or girl so we named it Pat. I asked both of them to pray too. I would believe they love me and would intercede for me.
God allowed me to be healed of this terrible cancer. Did those prayers help? Only God knows.

 

[Asinner]

I went full term, had a very easy pregnancy and my son Kevin Martin was born 9 months to the day from the date of termination, on the Feast day of St. Martin de Porres.

Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever!

Thank you for sharing that, Peace. God is so good.

 

[vrunca]

Hi, I have a question for those of you who pray to or thorough people who are physically dead.
I have read enough to know that you think they are not dead, but still, they are physically dead and I don't know what else you call them. Do you have another term for them if you don't call them dead? (No offense intended, I just have no idea what you call physically dead people since I have seen on many threads that many people insist they are not dead.)

I hear what you are saying...in fact I think I have even answered you, that they aren't dead before! I still say that they are dead, but alive in Christ. I know that sounds kind of contradictory...but it gets to complicated when I am talking about someone, like for instance my dad, who died 30 years ago, he is no longer alive on earth, but I believe him to be alive in Christ, which is a much better way to live than here on earth. I guess what it is, is that no, we don't pray to dead people, a dead person is buried and in a casket...but their soul is (God willing) in heaven with Christ. So, when someone asks me why I pray to dead people, I assume they picture me praying to my dad's dead body, buried in a casket. Where I don't, I pray to my dad's soul which I believe to be in Heaven with Christ, more alive than I am right now. I hope this makes sense...I tried!!

I also have seen replies that to you it is like asking another living person to pray for you.

What I want to know is, do these physically dead people reply or respond to you? How do you know they hear your prayers?

If I speak to a living person and ask them to pray for something, they answer me and so I know they have heard my request and will join me in prayer.

Ok, if you ask me to pray for you and I say yes, how do you know that I will? Even if I am standing right next to you and praying out loud, how do you know that I am not just repeating some words, that my mind and heart isn't somewhere else? If I asked you to pray for me, I believe you would do it, because I believe in a Communion of Saints, that we will pray for one another and our prayers of all the saints on earth as well as in Heaven will be joined together and brought before God.

When I pray to God, I touch Him in my spirit and I know that He is hearing my prayers because I can contact Him because He is God. I have a response from Him. He witnesses with my spirit.

So, if you pray to people who are not physically alive, do they talk or respond to you?

Some people say they do. I personally have not actually heard a verbal response from a Saint...but when I lose something, one of my favorite prayers goes like this: "Dear Saint Anthony, please look around, something is lost and must be found." And I believe he prays with me to find whatever it is that I have lost....and I can't tell you how many times I am directed right to that item! Do I believe Saint Anthony caused this miracle to happen? No...but I believed he prayed for me. That is just an example. (St. Anthony is the Patron Saint of lost items). There are many examples of things that happen when praying to the Saints. And a lot of people will just say that it is because of God and not the Saint...which is true, but it helps to have others praying for me to God the Father along with me.

I do not mean to offend anyone's beliefs by this question, but I have been thinking about it since I have read so many threads on here about people praying to people who are not physically alive and I have been wondering why you would want to do that since you can pray directly to God and the answer that I have seen is that it is like asking living people to pray, but with living people there is a response involved.

You are not offending in any way, this is a good question, the way you took the time to word it, shows that you are asking an honest question, to find out why some people do this! You are very thoughtful and kind, thank you!!!

And again, there is a response from someone who can stand in front of you and speak, but we still don't know what is in another persons heart. We have faith they will follow through with what they say and I have faith the Saints will also, because we are a Communion of Saints.

Thank you for asking this in such a kind and loving way!!

 

[Trento]

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Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever!

Thank you for sharing that, Peace. God is so good.

Hi, I have a question for those of you who pray to or thorough people who are physically dead.

What I want to know is, do these physically dead people reply or respond to you? How do you know they hear your prayers?

.

I will give you one example if you need more let me know.


In March 1981, Maureen Digan, of Roslindale, Massachusetts, her husband, son, and Fr. Seraphim Michalenko, MIC (a priest of the Congregation of Marians of the Immaculate Conception), traveled to St. Faustina's tomb at the Shrine of The Divine Mercy outside of Krakow, Poland.
From her early teens, Maureen suffered from an incurable illness -- and she had all but given up hope that she could ever be rid of it. Milroy's Disease, a form of lymphedema, had already claimed one of her legs and doctors recommended amputating the other.
At Faustina's tomb, Maureen prayed for St. Faustina's intercession and immediately felt the pain leave her and the swelling in her leg going down. In fact, Maureen later said she thought she was losing her mind. But upon the doctors' examination, they stated that Maureen's incurable ailment had disappeared. After exhaustive examination by medical professionals, the Church declared the healing a miracle through Faustina's intercession.

 

[christianmomof3]

Well, frankly, I don't get much of a response from God these days, either.

I am sorry. Sometimes we all feel disconnected from God. I will pray that He will draw you to Him in His love and that you will enjoy His peace, and His presence.

 

[christianmomof3]

Blessings Christianmomof3

This is a good article with many patristics, including Athanasius.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/invocationofsaints.aspx

Thank you - I do not have time to read it now - we got a new interned provider today and my dh is still updating things or doing some other computer type stuff. But, I look forward to reading it soon.

 

[christianmomof3]

Hi!

I ask saints to pray for me sometimes when I know that in their life they were in a similar position to one I am in at the time. I never hear a response from them, but I do see in my life that my petitions are answered.

I can understand that, but Christ does understand every single thing that we are going through.

One time my husband and I prayed for the youth at our church who were on a spiritual retreat and we ended with the litany of the saints, which is basically, 'saint Peter, pray for us, Saint Paul, pray for us' etc. It goes through a whole lot of famous saints. It felt wonderful to be praying with a community of people so in love with God! The communion of saints! I could almost see our prayers 'rising like incence before God's altar' like in revelation. It was a powerful moment of prayer for me. I felt that God was letting me know that my husband and I were not alone in our prayers for the youth.

That sounds like an enjoyable experience.

In answer to your other questions:

We call those who have died in Christ, those who are with God in heaven, the saints. And that is how we refer to them when we are praying with them.

Ok, I am still confused on terminology here. In the Bible, the word saints refers to all believers. I have learned that capital "S" Saints referrs to dead believers whom the church voted on to be cannonized because they performed miracles. (please correct me if I am wrong here). So, do you use the word saints only for dead saints or both living and dead and is "S" Saints only the ones voted in?

As to why we ask them to pray for us, I would say it's because they are righteous people. And the Bible talks about the efficacy of the prayer of a righteous man. We only ask those in heaven to pray for us. Those in heaven are perfected in Christ so they're pretty righteous. I guess we believe that they are powerful prayerful people, so it's good to ask them to pray for us. Also, I think it shows God that we love our brothers and sisters in Christ.

So, are living saints not righteous? Don't ya'll ask living people to pray for you or pray with you too?

I also think that we are only able to do this because God lets us. It is through God that we are able to ask saints to pray for us.

Thanks for your question. It really wasn't offensive, I hope my reply isn't either! If any of it is, I didn't mean it to be

Thank you for your thoughtful answer. I am enjoying learning about the different beliefs of the different Christians.

 

[christianmomof3]

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Where I don't, I pray to my dad's soul which I believe to be in Heaven with Christ, more alive than I am right now. I hope this makes sense...I tried!!

Thank you. I have no such assurance about my parents since they were Jewish, but, from what I have read in the Bible, I believe that when the Lord returns they will still have a chance to accept Him and I pray that they will.

Some people say they do. I personally have not actually heard a verbal response from a Saint...but when I lose something, one of my favorite prayers goes like this: "Dear Saint Anthony, please look around, something is lost and must be found." And I believe he prays with me to find whatever it is that I have lost....and I can't tell you how many times I am directed right to that item! Do I believe Saint Anthony caused this miracle to happen? No...but I believed he prayed for me. That is just an example. (St. Anthony is the Patron Saint of lost items). There are many examples of things that happen when praying to the Saints. And a lot of people will just say that it is because of God and not the Saint...which is true, but it helps to have others praying for me to God the Father along with me.

Ok, but, why would it be more effective to ask Saint Anthony to help you than it would be to ask God Himself directly? Isn't God higher and better and more effective than St. Anthony? Isn't it better to contact the Lord Himself and enjoy His peace and His presence ?

You are not offending in any way, this is a good question, the way you took the time to word it, shows that you are asking an honest question, to find out why some people do this! You are very thoughtful and kind, thank you!!!

Thank you also for your thoughtful reply. I have seen how easy it is for people to be offended on the board and that is largely because we are not face to face, but I really am trying to learn, not trying to offend and I appreciate your response.

And again, there is a response from someone who can stand in front of you and speak, but we still don't know what is in another persons heart. We have faith they will follow through with what they say and I have faith the Saints will also, because we are a Communion of Saints.

Thank you for asking this in such a kind and loving way!!

Well, if at all possible, I ask other people to pray with me right then and there rather than asking them to pray for me at some future time. And then we pray together out loud. As you said previously, it is possible that others may just say the words, but the Bible says that no one can say "Lord Jesus" unless they are in spirit - or something like that, and so when I pray with someone else, it is not necessarily them that I am trusting in, but the Lord that I am trusting in that He will work through them. (if that makes any sense).

 

[christianmomof3]

I can't add very much to what has been said. I can say I have seen some miracles in my life that confirm to me that the Lord blessed my prayer for intercession.
I prayed and prayed and then asked St Martin de Porres to pray for me that God would do something to lift his spirits.
I don't know why I picked St Martin de Porres, I think I had read about him and his humble life impressed me.
2 1/2 years ago, when I lay on a radiation table receiving treatments for Lung Cancer, I asked St Martin de Porres again to pray for me. I spoke to other saints too but I also asked my little infant Michael to pray for me and also the other babe in Heaven, we never knew if it was a boy or girl so we named it Pat. I asked both of them to pray too. I would believe they love me and would intercede for me.
God allowed me to be healed of this terrible cancer. Did those prayers help? Only God knows.

I am sorry about the babies that you lost and about your cancer. And I am glad about the children you had and that you are healthy now.
But, I still do not understand why you would want to or need to ask St. Martin de Porres to pray for you. Do you feel that asking him made your prayer be answered and that if you only prayed to God it would not have been answered?
When you pray to these saints and to the children that you lost, do they respond to you?
I guess I still think it is best to go straight to God Himself because He is the one in charge and when I pray, I contact Him.
I think that my understanding of prayer is a bit different than some.
To me, prayer is contacting God.
When we pray, we may praise God, or we may petition Him and ask for things, or we just may contact Him to enjoy His presence and to feel His peace.
When I pray and contact God, I feel His peace and it is the most wonderful thing in the world!
I cannot imagine trying to talk to deceased people and experiencing anything even close to that. Even people who I personally know are with the Lord.
In fact, to be honest, just to find out what people were talking about here, I did try to do that, but the Lord stopped me. I had no peace to even try to contact or pray to someone who I know who has passed away and is with the Lord.
The Lord just turned me to Himself and let me know that He is all I need and that He is who I should pray to.
I do not wish to negate your experience, I just do not understand it.
Thank you very much for sharing it with me though.
I pray that you will enjoy Christ and all of His riches.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

Hi, I have a question for those of you who pray to or thorough people who are physically dead.
I have read enough to know that you think they are not dead, but still, they are physically dead and I don't know what else you call them. Do you have another term for them if you don't call them dead?

Excellent question. Yes we do have another term; those who are apart from the body are called "Alive in Christ" as the Holy Scripture tells us.

BTW, we don't pray through them, we ask them to pray for us as we ask all of our brothers and sisters in Christ. They are members of our family in Christ the same as those who are still on their earthly pilgrimage are.

May the Grace of Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you always.

Your brother in Christ.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

I am sorry about the babies that you lost and about your cancer. And I am glad about the children you had and that you are healthy now.
But, I still do not understand why you would want to or need to ask St. Martin de Porres to pray for you. Do you feel that asking him made your prayer be answered and that if you only prayed to God it would not have been answered?
When you pray to these saints and to the children that you lost, do they respond to you?
I guess I still think it is best to go straight to God Himself because He is the one in charge and when I pray, I contact Him.
I think that my understanding of prayer is a bit different than some.
To me, prayer is contacting God.
When we pray, we may praise God, or we may petition Him and ask for things, or we just may contact Him to enjoy His presence and to feel His peace.
When I pray and contact God, I feel His peace and it is the most wonderful thing in the world!
I cannot imagine trying to talk to deceased people and experiencing anything even close to that. Even people who I personally know are with the Lord.
In fact, to be honest, just to find out what people were talking about here, I did try to do that, but the Lord stopped me. I had no peace to even try to contact or pray to someone who I know who has passed away and is with the Lord.
The Lord just turned me to Himself and let me know that He is all I need and that He is who I should pray to.
I do not wish to negate your experience, I just do not understand it.
Thank you very much for sharing it with me though.
I pray that you will enjoy Christ and all of His riches.

Hi again,
Being a Catholic convert, I do understand your questions.

Let me say this to you. I am also a Catholic Charismatic. I am into Praise and Worship of the Lord almost continually throughout my days and of course there are the Prayer Meetings. The Lord always comes first in my life and I do go straight to Him first, always. ALWAYS.
You know, as a Charismatic, I know there are times when I don't know how to pray and I ask the Holy Spirit to pray for me and through me. At these times I might be in my prayer language.
I am also a Contemplative. There is times when that deep silent prayer is where the Lord takes me. These are indeed holy and intensely intimate prayers.
There are times when I am so full of Joy of the Lord that I clap my hands, and sing and dance before the Lord.
The Mass leads me into a different kind of worship.
There is times when I love nothing more than praying with a special prayer partner. We just take turns speaking to the Lord, praising him, thanking him and interceding for the needs of others.
Is any one of these methods of prayer greater than another? I don't think so. God is always the center of my prayer life.
When I pray with the saints here on earth, I am blessed. When I pray with the Saints in Heaven, I am blessed. When I pray with the Holy Spirit, I am blessed. When I pray with my Prayer community, I am blessed. When I pray with the Body of Christ during Mass, I am blessed. When I say Grace with my Grandchildren, I am blessed.
Am I making myself clear at all?
I do not pray with the Saints in Heaven all the time, in fact probably not as often as some, I am really pretty lax about it. Normally I am not led in that direction but when I am, thats what I do.

I cannot give you any better explanation than that. It is the best I can do.

I didn't share about my babies or about my cancer in order to get sympathy. I certainly am not at all about that. My babies are blessed. I am blessed, I am a cancer survivor. God is so good.
I am totally in love with the Lord.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Christianity is never about me, myself and God . . but about me and the body of Christ.

Our Christian faith and walk was never intended to be a one-on-one with God, though we have that one-on-one personal relationship. But we are part of a body, and as part of the body of Christ, we journey together. Those who die and go to heaven do not leave the body. They are just as much part of the body as we are, and the body is in communion.

Death does not stop that communion; it does not cause the body to be cut in half.

The body is whole, not in pieces.

Since we are part of the same body, we are not separated from those who have died in this world and live in the next. The Body of Christ spans both the physical and heavenly realms. . . . One Body. One Whole.

We are in commuion . . . it never ends or is put on hold.

Those in heaven are in communion with us through the Head which is Christ. They are the great cloud of witnesses Paul speaks of, aware of our struggles and race, becuase of the Head which is Christ. They pray for us, are aware of our prayers to them asking for their intercession, because of the Head which is Christ.

It is because of Christ we are one body, and it is because of Christ we remain one body, whether we are here in the flesh, or in heaven before the throne of God. We are all one.



Peace