Parallels with the Nazi-era Christian church

[Cymbal glow]

Consider that the Christian church in the Nazi era did and said nothing when confronted with the horrors of the holocaust and the eugenics movement. The Swastika was displayed side by side with the cross.

Today's church displays the emblems of Western government side by side with the cross, silent to the horrors of child labour, occupations, genocides and imperialism.

We view the Nazi-era church with repugnance. How will we be viewed?

 

[Mr. M]

Consider that the Christian church in the Nazi era

Consider it a major fail.
Romans 11:
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.

There may not be enough history left to look back on this generation and take the full measure
of it's failure.

 

[pescador]

Consider that the Christian church in the Nazi era did and said nothing when confronted with the horrors of the holocaust and the eugenics movement. The Swastika was displayed side by side with the cross.

Today's church displays the emblems of Western government side by side with the cross, silent to the horrors of child labour, occupations, genocides and imperialism.

We view the Nazi-era church with repugnance. How will we be viewed?

We are NOT nazis!! Your comparison is totally unwarranted!

 

[public hermit]

Consider that the Christian church in the Nazi era did and said nothing when confronted with the horrors of the holocaust and the eugenics movement. The Swastika was displayed side by side with the cross.

Today's church displays the emblems of Western government side by side with the cross, silent to the horrors of child labour, occupations, genocides and imperialism.

We view the Nazi-era church with repugnance. How will we be viewed?

It is good to remember those who said nothing and consider our own culpability for today. And, perhaps it is also good to remember and reflect on those Christians who did speak out against the Nazi party.

Barmen Declaration - Wikipedia

 

[Silverback]

Consider that the Christian church in the Nazi era did and said nothing when confronted with the horrors of the holocaust and the eugenics movement. The Swastika was displayed side by side with the cross.

Today's church displays the emblems of Western government side by side with the cross, silent to the horrors of child labour, occupations, genocides and imperialism.

We view the Nazi-era church with repugnance. How will we be viewed?

Their were churches, and Clergy that openly opposed the Nazi Government... Dietrich Bonnhoffer comes to mind.

Most ended up in concentration camps, some survived, others like Bonnhoffer was hung on a meat hook slow!y over 12 hours. This was filmed for Hitler's personal viewing. During the last hanging session while still conscious his pants an underwater were pulled down to his ankles, so as to humiliate him just before he died.

Some clergy openly collaborated, some did what they had to do to stay open and continue to provide pastoral care to their congregation.

And some resisted...you know the story.

I would like to think I would be in the resistance group, but know one knows for sure how they would act after seeing Jews killed in the street, midnight raids as people listened to the BBC, public hangings, and school children being told to turn in their parents for anything and everything.

Takes a strong person to resist in that environment, If it was me, I would have locked the door to the church, and headed to the woods, and joined a partisan unit, and continued my calling by providing pastoral care to the partisans... and hopefully survive the war.

 

[chevyontheriver]

It is good to remember those who said nothing and consider our own culpability for today. And, perhaps it is also good to remember and reflect on those Christians who did speak out against the Nazi party.

Barmen Declaration - Wikipedia

There were 2720 clergy sent to Dachau. As prisoners.

 

[Cymbal glow]

Their were churches, and Clergy that openly opposed the Nazi Government... Dietrich Bonnhoffer comes to mind.

Most ended up in concentration camps, some survived, others like Bonnhoffer was hung on a meat hook slow!y over 12 hours. This was filmed for Hitler's personal viewing. During the last hanging session while still conscious his pants an underwater were pulled down to his ankles, so as to humiliate him just before he died.

Some clergy openly collaborated, some did what they had to do to stay open and continue to provide pastoral care to their congregation.

And some resisted...you know the story.

I would like to think I would be in the resistance group, but know one knows for sure how they would act after seeing Jews killed in the street, midnight raids as people listened to the BBC, public hangings, and school children being told to turn in their parents for anything and everything.

Takes a strong person to resist in that environment, If it was me, I would have locked the door to the church, and headed to the woods, and joined a partisan unit, and continued my calling by providing pastoral care to the partisans... and hopefully survive the war.

Thank you, yes they need to be celebrated. Sadly most of Germany was Christian, and most welcomed the antisemitic rhetoric because it was placed in an apparently Christian-affirming context.

Bonhoeffer Niemoller, and the Confessing church were instrumental in the domestic fight against Nazism, but much of the Confessing church was locked in administrative and ecclesial concern.

Sadly there are distinct and vivid parallels between the modern west and the Nazis. We have just become quite adept at concealment and whitewashing. The scale, breadth and depth of America's crimes alone eclipses the Nazis. This in terms of body count and use of terror, shock and awe.

 

[Not David]

German National Socialism was hostile to Christianity

 

[Petros2015]

The scale, breadth and depth of America's crimes alone eclipses the Nazis. This in terms of body count and use of terror, shock and awe.

No, I don't think so.
BUT. We could, if we weren't careful.
And we would call ourselves Christian all the way, just like they did, as we did it.
Food for thought.

The German Churches and the Nazi State

 

[Cymbal glow]

It is good to remember those who said nothing and consider our own culpability for today. And, perhaps it is also good to remember and reflect on those Christians who did speak out against the Nazi party.

Barmen Declaration - Wikipedia

Wow. The Barmen Declaration needs to be revived.

No, I don't think so.
BUT. We could, if we weren't careful.
And we would call ourselves Christian all the way, just like they did, as we did it.
Food for thought.

The genocide of the Native Americans
Slavery and Jim Crow
The Iraq War
The Vietnam War
The Korean War
The Yemen War
Latin American regime change
African regime change

The major difference is intent. The Nazis expressed their intentions far more openly. The west are far less overt. There is a thicker smear of civilisation over the crimes.

We are not Nazi Germany. That was unique. The evil of this age is different. It is far more sophisticated and decentralised. It thus appears to be far milder. America's crimes are distributed through time and geography.

 

[renniks]

Wow. The Barmen Declaration needs to be revived.


The genocide of the Native Americans
Slavery and Jim Crow
The Iraq War
The Vietnam War
The Korean War
The Yemen War
Latin American regime change
African regime change

The major difference is intent. The Nazis expressed their intentions far more openly. The west are far less overt. There is a thicker smear of civilisation over the crimes.

We are not Nazi Germany. That was unique. The evil of this age is different. It is far more sophisticated and decentralised.

Good grief. How about focusing on some positives, like we abolished slavery, we have fought for democracy multiple times and we have not sent millions to die in concentration camps. I think you are more than stretching, I think your comparisons are absurd.

 

[Silverback]

Thank you, yes they need to be celebrated. Sadly most of Germany was Christian, and most welcomed the antisemitic rhetoric because it was placed in an apparently Christian-affirming context.

Bonhoeffer Niemoller, and the Confessing church were instrumental in the domestic fight against Nazism, but much of the Confessing church was locked in administrative and ecclesial concern.

Sadly there are distinct and vivid parallels between the modern west and the Nazis. We have just become quite adept at concealment and whitewashing. The scale, breadth and depth of America's crimes alone eclipses the Nazis. This in terms of body count and use of terror, shock and awe.

All of continental Europe, has a problem with anti semitizm, even today in 2021. Then there are the gypsies, and the Saami.

After a career in the US Military, I would not agree with your comparison of the United States to Nazi Germany.

 

[Petros2015]

America's crimes are distributed through time and geography.

Well yes, that is something like 250 years of history. The Nazi's only had about... 15? I feel like they would have pulled ahead a bit. They were fully accelerating in an evil bent. We have our own velocity along those lines, but overall, I think we apply more brakes than gas. We do have to work to keep it that way though.

 

[Cymbal glow]

The west is redeemed by freedoms which allow people of conscience to speak against its crimes.The Christian church is meant to be a light to the nations. We are wedded to power however. It feels like the minority have any concern for oppression and tyranny. The Christian church has the power to become a refuge for the persecuted and victimised. We are however contributing to their suffering.
Tragically, much of the church has very little concern for persecuted Christians.What has happened to us? Some quarters of the church are driven solely by ego, gain, greed and exhilaration on Sunday. It's all for the taking beyond the eschaton. Sadly we don't care if this world is reduced to ashes. We forget that the New Jerusalem will descend and revitalise the Earth. We will be asked to give an account of what we did with the gifts of soil, sinew, stone and sky.
Too many of us have grown fat and lazy - myself included. It's hard to speak out against injustice on a full and bloated stomach.

I'm not advocating violent insurrection. We can save the most lives with peaceful but persistent and uncompromising protest.

 

[Rescued One]

Not everyone who attends church is a Christian. By their fruits and their doctrine you will know them.

 

[Petros2015]

We can save the most lives with peaceful but persistent and uncompromising protest.

Lives are saved by... protest...?

Did God so love the world that he sent his only son to protest that whomsoever should picket with him will be saved?

Lives are saved by sacrifice (and not by sacrificing our enemies, though it is tempting sometimes by sacrificing ourselves, time, energy, finances, commitment, love for those that need it) One individual dedicated over a lifetime can do more and inspire more than 1,000 protestors over an hour. It's extremely easy to hold a picket sign and yell a lot, but I'm not sure our neighbors feel any more loved, or are any more loved, or are inspired to love, when we do.

 

[Cymbal glow]

Lives are saved by... protest...?

Did God so love the world that he sent his only son to protest that whomsoever should picket with him will be saved?

Lives are saved by sacrifice (and not by sacrificing our enemies, though it is tempting sometimes by sacrificing ourselves, time, energy, finances, commitment, love for those that need it) One individual dedicated over a lifetime can do more and inspire more than 1,000 protestors over an hour. It's extremely easy to hold a picket sign and yell a lot, but I'm not sure our neighbors feel any more loved, or are any more loved, or are inspired to love, when we do.

Upvoted. You misread me. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

[Silverback]

Thank you, yes they need to be celebrated. Sadly most of Germany was Christian, and most welcomed the antisemitic rhetoric because it was placed in an apparently Christian-affirming context.

Bonhoeffer Niemoller, and the Confessing church were instrumental in the domestic fight against Nazism, but much of the Confessing church was locked in administrative and ecclesial concern.

Sadly there are distinct and vivid parallels between the modern west and the Nazis. We have just become quite adept at concealment and whitewashing. The scale, breadth and depth of America's crimes alone eclipses the Nazis. This in terms of body count and use of terror, shock and awe.

It seems to me that the UK has with us in every fight since the 1990-1991 Gulf War...what does that make you?...oh I know that's different.

 

[Silverback]

Well yes, that is something like 250 years of history. The Nazi's only had about... 15? I feel like they would have pulled ahead a bit. They were fully accelerating in an evil bent. We have our own velocity along those lines, but overall, I think we apply more brakes than gas. We do have to work to keep it that way though.

Look at Britains crimes...get a calculator.

 

[Petros2015]

Look at Britains crimes...get a calculator.

Heh. Well, this is probably why God gave up on nations at national levels and started going for individuals at personal ones. Seems to work better.