Pagan Dating (Revisited)

[Occams Barber]

Pagan Dating (Revisited)
or
So You Thought Christmas was Pagan

So here we are, a couple of weeks out from Christmas, and the complaints have started. (Modern day Christmas has turned into Joke)

Like clockwork, at this time of year, we get a flurry of CF threads bemoaning the pagan origins of Christmas or the heresy implicit in Yule logs, Christmas trees and Santa’s little elvish helpers. The fear of course is that vague pagan connections to sacred Christian dates and symbols will contaminate Christian faith consigning Christian Christmas celebrants to an eternity of paddling a copper-bottomed canoe across an endless lake of fire.

A year and a half ago I penned a post pointing out where the real danger lies. A far, far greater evil resides among us, hiding in plain sight on our walls or the fridge door, in our diaries and even festering away in the bottom right hand corner of your computer screen. As we head into Christmas it seems timely to repeat the warning.

I am, of course, referring to - the Calendar. If a potentially pagan Christmas worries you, then the paganicity of the Calendar should be positively terrifying.

Let me explain.

Look at your Calendar.

January, the first month, belongs to Janus, the two-faced Roman god of gates and portals. You have just crossed the threshold and taken your first tentative step into a pagan world.
February, the second month, comes from februarius mensis – the Roman month celebrating purification by making burnt offerings. Fighting the urge to burn the budgie or cremate the cat?

It gets worse.

March. From Mars, the bloody handed Roman god of War. Anyone up for a bit of Slaughter and Pillage before lunch?
April. While the exact origins of April are buried in the mists of time, one version has it that the name comes from Apru, the Etruscan Aphrodite, the Goddess of Love. Beware the pagan lust.
May. From Maia, Roman Earth Goddess. The lust continues.
June. From Juno, Roman Goddess of Adult Women and Marriage. She’s married so at least the lust is now legit.
July and August after Julius and Augustus Caesar. Finally, free from the influence of pagan gods? Not quite. Both were deified. Time to render unto Caesar.

From here on you’re pretty safe. September, October November and December are named for (what once were) the seventh, eighth, ninth and tenth months. Mathematically confusing but at least you’re out of the dark woods.

Or are you?

If you thought the calendar months were a hotbed of heresy and temptation then consider the calendar days.

In the 5th century marauding Germanic tribes invaded Britain bringing their language and their pantheon of deities. We still speak the language and, without realizing it, we still bow down to their pagan gods every day of the week.

On Tuesday (Old English Tīwesdæg) you are celebrating the evil influence of Tiwes or Tiu, an ancient Germanic Sky god and sometime God of War.
Wednesday (Wodnesdæg). On Woden’s day remember Woden, allfather, boss of the gods, wanderer, healer, god of death and frenzy.
Thursday (Thunresdæg). From Thor, the hammer wielding god of thunder, lightning and a Marvel franchise.
Friday (Frīġedæġ). From Frigga Germanic Goddess of Married Love and Wives. Who says pagan gods can’t be nice?
Saturday (Sætern(es)dæg). Borrowed from the Roman Saturni dies ‘day of Saturn’, the ancient Roman god of agriculture. Gardening anyone?
Sunday (Sunnandæg). Another Roman concept borrowed and linked to the Germanic sun god.
Monday (Mōnandæg) Named after Máni, the Norse personification of the moon

So, there you have it.

While you were worrying about Christmas your calendar was quietly insinuating a pagan pantheon into your everyday existence.

What to do?

Just ignore it.

Sacrifice a Virgin and carry on like normal.

OB
(with thanks to @Quid est Veritas? for past historical correctional nit-picking)

 

[jayem]

What a spoil sport.

Next you're gonna tell us that the Irish don't really eat corned beef, or drink green beer on St. Patrick's Day.

 

[Tolworth John]

Just ignore it.
Sacrifice a Virgin and carry on like normal.

Sorry my daughter is far to precious to me for that.

A better idea is to not be normal and invite family friends, neighbours, work collegues to carol concerts, nativity plays, to come round for carols and festive food and to talk about the meaning of Christmas.

Many people will happily attend church to hear carols or see a nativity play, just ensure that you know your minister can and will give a simple gospel message.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Let us not let the tradition of nitpicking die:

January, the first month, belongs to Janus, the two-faced Roman god of gates and portals. You have just crossed the threshold and taken your first tentative step into a pagan world.

You worded that very carefully, didn't you? Just to reiterate, not named for Janus though, but it was considered his sacred month.

February, the second month, comes from februarius mensis – the Roman month celebrating purification by making burnt offerings. Fighting the urge to burn the budgie or cremate the cat?

Mistake here. It is named for purification, yes, but not through burnt offerings. It comes from the Lupercalia festival, where februa were used to purify. This entailed slitting the throut of a goat and anointing two children with its blood at a fig tree, thus reenacting Romulus and Remus. Then the two colleges of priests would run through Rome in wolfskins and beat woman with thongs of leather, the februa, to purify the town and to help fertility. No burnt offerings here. Just some light beatings. This is the same festival where Marc Anthony offered Caesar a crown by the way, so was rich with symbolism of purging the state and a new beginning.

April. While the exact origins of April are buried in the mists of time, one version has it that the name comes from Apru, the Etruscan Aphrodite, the Goddess of Love. Beware the pagan lust.
May. From Maia, Roman Earth Goddess. The lust continues.
June. From Juno, Roman Goddess of Adult Women and Marriage. She’s married so at least the lust is now legit.

As I said last year: April is unlikely named for a goddess, as even in Roman times this etymology was doubted. Most likely for aperire, for opening of flowers and such. May and June might be for goddesses, but more likely for the Elderly and the Youth, respectively.
Thing is, Romans had many gods, but didn't name their last 6 months after any, just keeping numbers (till August and July replaced two of them), so naming months after gods is really not something they usually did. The only unequivocal one is March, and this is likely to do with it being the start of campaigning season, and the Romans were quite martial people (pun intended).

Sacrifice a Virgin and carry on like normal.

Very unRoman. They were appalled by the idea of virgin sacrifice, which is why Iphigenia's was considered such an evil act in the Trojan wars; or child sacrifice by Carthaginians. In fact, when Sejanus' daughter was to be killed, they made sure her executioner raped her, before killing her and throwing her down the Gemonian steps - you know, so the gods wouldn't be offended.


One you should add is the hours of the day. This was named for the 12 Horae (sometimes 10), goddesses that looked over the period of daylight. Hence the daytime was divided into 12 hours and this later extended to the night, giving 24 hours in all.

 

[Occams Barber]

Let us not let the tradition of obsession with nit-picking die:

You worded that very carefully, didn't you? Just to reiterate, not named for Janus though, but it was considered his sacred month.

So, this is the long way of saying I’m right – yes?

Mistake here. It is named for purification, yes, but not through burnt offerings. It comes from the Lupercalia festival, where februa were used to purify. This entailed slitting the throut of a goat and anointing two children with its blood at a fig tree, thus reenacting Romulus and Remus. Then the two colleges of priests would run through Rome in wolfskins and beat woman with thongs of leather, the februa, to purify the town and to help fertility. No burnt offerings here. Just some light beatings. This is the same festival where Marc Anthony offered Caesar a crown by the way, so was rich with symbolism of purging the state and a new beginning.

I’m gonna give you this one since I’d hate to see you lose everything. I picked up the burnt offering bit from a too-hasty reading of the Online Etymological Dictionary (OED) entry for February where it mentions an association between the PIE origin of february and purification by smoke or a burnt offering. Turns out it's really goat throat slitting and running around naked whacking women with whips. Charming.

As I said last year: April is an unlikely named for a goddess, as even in Roman times this etymology was doubted. Most likely for aperire, for opening of flowers and such.

Sorry
Exhibit A: From the OED

1. Perhaps based on Apru, an Etruscan borrowing of Greek Aphrodite.
2. Old folk etymology connected it with Latin aperire "to open."

Exhibit B: From Wiktionary

1. ‘perhaps based on Etruscan (Apru), from Ancient Greek Αφροδίτη (Aphrodítē, “Venus”).’
2. No mention of aperire.

Exhibit C: From Wikipedia

1. Describes aperire origin as ‘traditional etymology’ (i.e. 'folk' - OB)
2. Links April to Aphrodite or Etruscan Apru

That’s three sources accepting that the Etruscan 'apru' link may be right and three sources ignoring or doubting your ‘aperire’ origin.

NB: in a stub article Britannica mentions a probable connection to ‘aperire’ but what would they know.

You lose. I win.

May and June might be for goddesses, but more likely for the Elderly and the Youth, respectively.

So, I was right? Again

Thing is, Romans had many gods, but didn't name their last 6 months after any, just keeping numbers (till August and July replaced two of them), so naming months after gods is really not something they usually did. The only unequivocal one is March, and this is likely to do with it being the start of campaigning season, and the Romans were quite martial people (pun intended).

Now you’re just showing off.

Very unRoman. They were appalled by the idea of virgin sacrifice, which is why Iphigenia's was considered such an evil act in the Trojan wars; or child sacrifice by Carthaginians. In fact, when Sejanus' daughter was to be killed, they made sure her executioner raped her, before killing her and throwing her down the Gemonian steps - you know, so the gods wouldn't be offended.

Did I mention Romans sacrificing virgins? Maybe I meant Saxons or Norsemen since I was also talking about their gods? Or maybe I meant virgins as sacrificed by your stereotypical run-of-the-mill pagans? Actually it was a humorous juxtaposition of the ‘sacrificing a virgin meme’ with your generic pagan habit of sacrificing virgins. I’d give you the 'sacrificing virgins' meme link but CF matrons would get the vapours from the content.

One you should add is the hours of the day. This was named for the 12 Horae (sometimes 10), goddesses that looked over the period of daylight. Hence the daytime was divided into 12 hours and this later extended to the night, giving 24 hours in all.

Look Quid. You may have a thing for old dead Italians but the rest of us have lives. I don't want to seem ungrateful, but if I ever republish this masterwork, I’ll give your bit of trivia serious consideration.
OB

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Sorry
Exhibit A: From the OED

1. Perhaps based on Apru, an Etruscan borrowing of Greek Aphrodite.
2. Old folk etymology connected it with Latin aperire "to open."

Exhibit B: From Wiktionary

1. ‘perhaps based on Etruscan (Apru), from Ancient Greek Αφροδίτη (Aphrodítē, “Venus”).’
2. No mention of aperire.

Exhibit C: From Wikipedia

1. Describes aperire origin as ‘traditional etymology’ (i.e. 'folk' - OB)
2. Links April to Aphrodite or Etruscan Apru

That’s three sources accepting that the Etruscan 'apru' link may be right and three sources ignoring or doubting your ‘aperire’ origin.

NB: in a stub article Britannica mentions a probable connection to ‘aperire’ but what would they know.

You lose. I win.

The Roman name of the goddess is Venus.
The Greek name for the equivalent month is Anixi, which clearly means something similar to the traditional Roman one of 'opening (of flowers)'.
The Etruscan name of the month is Cabreas, not a hypothetical Apru form.

So we have to assume the Romans using a foreign name for the goddess of the Veneralia, then adopt this foreign name for the month when their own Etruscan teachers never used it so, or assume a non-extant Etruscan month form similar to it, in preference to their own native form, and ignore other similar etymology names for such a month. Further, Roman paedagogues and antiquarians like Varro, rejected an Aphrodite/Apru derivation as unlikely.

Sorry, this derivation requires ludicrous amounts of special pleading. Frankly a bit silly. Besides, the primary archaic triad of Rome was Jupiter, Mars and Quirinius in Numa Pompilius' day. Thereafter, under Etruscan influence from Tarquinius Priscus, it shifted to the Capitoline triad of Jupiter, Juno and Minerva. Venus' prominence is a later thing, much after the period of the kings in which the month names became established. It had more to do with the myth of Aeneas founding the Alba Longa kings and therefore in a roundabout way, the predecessor of Rome, Aeneas being a child of Venus by Anchises. This is a later myth, not the primary Roman foundation one, of the twin sons of Mars.

The entire thing seems far-fetched in the extreme.

 

[Occams Barber]

The Roman name of the goddess is Venus.
The Greek name for the equivalent month is Anixi, which clearly means something similar to the traditional Roman one of 'opening (of flowers)'.
The Etruscan name of the month is Cabreas, not a hypothetical Apru form.

So we have to assume the Romans using a foreign name for the goddess of the Veneralia, then adopt this foreign name for the month when their own Etruscan teachers never used it so, or assume a non-extant Etruscan month form similar to it, in preference to their own native form, and ignore other similar etymology names for such a month. Further, Roman paedagogues and antiquarians like Varro, rejected an Aphrodite/Apru derivation as unlikely.

Sorry, this derivation requires ludicrous amounts of special pleading. Frankly a bit silly. Besides, the primary archaic triad of Rome was Jupiter, Mars and Quirinius in Numa Pompilius' day. Thereafter, under Etruscan influence from Tarquinius Priscus, it shifted to the Capitoline triad of Jupiter, Juno and Minerva. Venus' prominence is a later thing, much after the period of the kings in which the month names became established. It had more to do with the myth of Aeneas founding the Alba Longa kings and therefore in a roundabout way, the predecessor of Rome, Aeneas being a child of Venus by Anchises. This is a later myth, not the primary Roman foundation one, of the twin sons of Mars.

The entire thing seems far-fetched in the extreme.

I have a lot of respect for your expertise when it comes to things Roman Quid so I'm happy to accept your version. The OED is my normal goto for things etymological. It's based on reputable sources but it looks like they've met their match in this instance.

Thanks for sorting me out. I feel suitably corrected.
OB

 

[Dave-W]

What to do?

Go by the biblical calendar.

Welcome to the month of Tevet. (started yesterday)

And to keep in line with the title of the thread: Pagan Dating (revisited)

I am not interested in dating any pagans. I am already married.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Go by the biblical calendar.

Welcome to the month of Tevet. (started yesterday)

And to keep in line with the title of the thread: Pagan Dating (revisited)

I am not interested in dating any pagans. I am already married.

That name sounds like it is a Pagan Babylonian word…

 

[Resha Caner]

I am not interested in dating any pagans. I am already married.

I guess I misinterpreted the title. I thought he was going to show pictures of pagans and we had to guess how old they were. It could be a new Christmas party idea to replace Trivial Pursuit.

 

[Joy]

MOD HAT ON

This Thread

From The Kitchen Sink
To Christianity and World Religion
This is a More Fitting Forum
for this subject
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[PloverWing]

The Quaker cemeteries near me include graves that are 200-300 years old, and most of those older gravestones say that the deceased died in, for example, "3rd month" instead of "March", exactly for this reason. Most modern Quakers go ahead and use the common names for months and days of the week, but their educational program is still called "First day school" instead of "Sunday school", a legacy of those earlier, more theologically careful times.

 

[Zoness]

Thanks for the info, I always find learning neato stuff to be fun.

Though admittedly, the pagan origins of Christmas make not much of a difference to me since I still celebrate a purely secular Christmas, even if some family members want to celebrate a more religious version. It's been thoroughly co-opted by secular society anyways.

Though I always keep these cards in my back pocket because of the Breitbart-uncles who think that every government building is a monument to Saturn or [take your pick of god]. Hooo boy its fun to stoke those fires.

Though I'm sort of happy there's still loads of pagan symbolism in society because its fun to see how symbols and meanings have carried on through time.

Here's a little side bit that feels relevant to the convo:

Happy Saturnalia.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Thanks for the info, I always find learning neato stuff to be fun.

Though admittedly, the pagan origins of Christmas make not much of a difference to me since I still celebrate a purely secular Christmas, even if some family members want to celebrate a more religious version. It's been thoroughly co-opted by secular society anyways.

Though I always keep these cards in my back pocket because of the Breitbart-uncles who think that every government building is a monument to Saturn or [take your pick of god]. Hooo boy its fun to stoke those fires.

Though I'm sort of happy there's still loads of pagan symbolism in society because its fun to see how symbols and meanings have carried on through time.

Here's a little side bit that feels relevant to the convo:

Happy Saturnalia.

You mean, Io Saturnalia!

Anyway, all that talk of obelisks as penises is ridiculous. The people erecting penis obelisks are the Hindus, with the Lingam of Shiva on occasion having this meaning.

The Egyptians weren't shy about that. One of the major Egyptian gods, as big as Anubis or Horus or Thoth, was Min. He is never depicted in popular media though, because he has a giant erect phallus. If the Egyptians wanted a penis, they'd just carve one.

 

[Zoness]

You mean, Io Saturnalia!

Good catch!

 

[Not David]

Nice try but everything is pagan but me!