JW Myth: God Is a Trinity

[Joshua_Verum]

Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclopædia Britannica states: ““Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies.””

In fact, the God of the Bible is never described as being part of a Trinity. Note these Bible passages:

“Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”—Deuteronomy 6:4.

“You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.”—Psalm 83:18.

“This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:3.

“God is only one.”—Galatians 3:20.

Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?

What is the origin of the myth?

"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation `one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century."-New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, `of one substance with the Father.' . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination."-Encyclopædia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

What does the Bible say?

"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God's right hand. `Look! I can see heaven thrown open,' he said, `and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God.'"-Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God's active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God's right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-Émile Boismard wrote in his book À l'aube du christianisme-La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity-The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT: The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention.

Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son and the Holy Spirit is God's Power.

 

[dysert]

Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclopædia Britannica states: ““Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies.””

In fact, the God of the Bible is never described as being part of a Trinity. Note these Bible passages:

“Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”—Deuteronomy 6:4.

“You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.”—Psalm 83:18.

“This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:3.

“God is only one.”—Galatians 3:20.

Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?

What is the origin of the myth?

"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation `one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century."-New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, `of one substance with the Father.' . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination."-Encyclopædia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

What does the Bible say?

"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God's right hand. `Look! I can see heaven thrown open,' he said, `and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God.'"-Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God's active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God's right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-Émile Boismard wrote in his book À l'aube du christianisme-La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity-The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT: The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention.

Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son and the Holy Spirit is God's Power.

I think that (at a minimum) you have a terminology problem. There's "God". He is indeed one. But this One has eternally represented Himself as three distinct divine Persons. There's God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. If we can get past the terminology problem, then we can go deeper and look at some verses that support the concept of the Trinity.

 

[ChetSinger]

FACT: The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention.

Hello Joshua, and welcome to CF!

I'll dispute your assertion. The deity of the Son, for example, is recorded much earlier by such as Ignatius, Justin Martyr, and Iranaeus.

Also, the deity of the "son of man" in Daniel 7 was a Jewish belief so old it was pre-Christian. This was investigated by rabbinical scholar Alan Segal in his book "Two Powers in Heaven". Jesus called himself "the son of man" repeatedly and when he did so at his trial he was immediately convicted of blasphemy. The rabbis declared that belief heretical in the 2nd century AD after Christians applied it to Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[drstevej]

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• Debates are only between Christian members and the members of the specific non-Christian religion being challenged.

 

[Wgw]

I have desired for some time the opportunity to debate an actual open J/W on this point; I have previously triumohed over several Arians in debates, so this should be quite enjoyable.

Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclopædia Britannica states: ““Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies.””

On this point, the Encyclopedia is wrong, in that we see proto-Nicene theology clearly expressed in, for example, St. Irenaeus of Lyons. What had not been expressed were the specific verbal formulations used in the fourth century to refute Arius, Macedonius and others who dared to challenge in a novel way (based on Paul of Samosata and his disciple Lucian, the teacher of Arius) the sacred doctrine of the Church, which until then was understood and accepted but not precosely defined.

In fact, the God of the Bible is never described as being part of a Trinity. Note these Bible passages:

Actually, He is. Of course, your religion would prefer to believe otherwise, and thus intentionally mistranslated John 1:1 by interpolating the word "Like" in a transparent attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of its adherents.

Interestingly, I note you didn't even try to argue from John 1:1, which furthers my point that Trinitarianism is scriptural, non-Trinitarianism is unscriptural, and the Arian Christology of your denomination cannot be defended on Biblical terms.

Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?

Because it is the Truth; the holy Church is the Body of Christ, against which the gates of Hell cannot prevail.

What is the origin of the myth?

"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation `one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century."-New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, `of one substance with the Father.' . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination."-Encyclopædia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

This description of the Council of Nicea is grossly inaccurate. There was only one real dissenter at Nicea, Eusebius of Caesarea, who in the end did condescend to sign the creed. St. Constantine convened the council but did not actively influence the proceedings. The bulk of the work of refuting Arius was done by St. Athanasius the Great. at that time Protodeacon to St. Alexander, the Patriarch of the holy church of Alexandria and successor to St. Mark the Evangelist.

Later, St. Constantine softened to the Arians and before his death was baptized by the Arian bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia. His heir in the East, Constantius, began a decades long persecution of the Orthodox Nicene Christians which ended in the reign of St. Theodosius; however Arian trines like the Visigoths continued to terrorize Christians for centuries; many later converted to Islam.

What does the Bible say?

In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God's right hand. `Look! I can see heaven thrown open,' he said, `and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God.'"-Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God's active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God's right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being.

No, because He remained united to the Trinity according to essence, energy and will. Each prosopon of the Trinity was apparent at the Holy Theophany (the Baptism of our Lord).

There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account.

Indeed, but there is elsewhere. For example, Matthew 28:19.

Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-Émile Boismard wrote in his book À l'aube du christianisme-La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity-The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

Appeal to authority, in this cases, as a subtracted minus, an authority my church does not recognize. I would argue that even by RC standards, Fr. Boismard was incompetent and ought to have been deposed for making a demonstrably false claim about the Nicene Faith.

The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

St. Athanasius, and later, Ss. Basil, Gregory the Theologian, Gregory of Nyassa, Ephraim the Syrian, and Ambrose of Milan, among others, championed it. St. Constantine tragically seems to have been largely indifferent to it.

The identification of St. Mary as Theotokos was challenged by Nestorius, but held up by the holy fathers at Ephesus during the reign of the august successor of St. Athanasius, St. Cyril of Alexander.

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

See also John 1:1-14, Matthew 28:19 et cetera.

FACT: The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention.

Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son and the Holy Spirit is God's Power.

I have noticed that J/Ws like to characterize subjective opinions as facts, when they are not.

It is an actual fact that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has published a bible which substitutes, without any support from manuscript evidence, "Jehovah" for the Tetragrammaton and several references to "Kyrios" in the NT. and which interpolates "like" into John 1:1 without any justification.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclopædia Britannica states: ““Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies.””

It's worth noting that the same can be said about the Bible itself. Making this argument especially ironic.

In fact, the God of the Bible is never described as being part of a Trinity. Note these Bible passages:

“Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”—Deuteronomy 6:4.

“You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.”—Psalm 83:18.

“This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:3.

“God is only one.”—Galatians 3:20.

Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?

Two points:

1) the Bible never calls God Jehovah, in fact "Jehovah" is a bastardization and corruption of the Tetragrammaton, or the four letter name of God of Yod-Hah-Vav-Hah, transcribed as YHVH or YHWH. Of which the pronunciation is generally considered to have been lost to us, though "Yahweh" is often considered the most common approximation.

2) The use of these passages which assert the unity and oneness of God as a countermeasure against Trinitarianism may sound really clever to non-Trinitarians and anti-Trinitarians who have never bothered to learn what Trinitarianism is or what it teaches or who imagine their orthodox opponents are somehow daft morons who can be easily taken advantage of. Problematic here is that Trinitarianism asserts, dogmatically, that God is one and that there is no other god save for the one and only God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

As a point of fact I have a tattoo that features both a traditional Trinitarian symbol, the triquetta and the Hebrew word אֶחָד (sans niqqud). It is symbolic of my affirmation of the declaration of God's oneness and unity in the Sh'ma as understood and comprehended in the historic Christian manner, which can be quite wonderfully summarized in the words of the Athanasian Creed, "we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence."

What is the origin of the myth?

"The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation `one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century."-New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

"The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, `of one substance with the Father.' . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination."-Encyclopædia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

Beware the selective quote mine. I can guarantee that these sources, with the included elipses, are taken not from your personal investigation into the source material quoted, but come second-hand from official Watchtower literature.

That doesn't bode well here.

What does the Bible say?

"Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God's right hand. `Look! I can see heaven thrown open,' he said, `and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God.'"-Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

What did this vision reveal? Filled with God's active force, Stephen saw Jesus "standing at God's right hand." Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-Émile Boismard wrote in his book À l'aube du christianisme-La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity-The Birth of Dogmas): "The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament."

Demonstrable ignorance of Trinitarian dogma. We do not teach that Christ ceased to be God during the Incarnation and then became God again. We confess that the one and only eternally-begotten Son and Logos who is very God of very God, begotten, not made, and homousious with the Father became, in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary true man. He is therefore confessed as the one and only God-Man, being both God of God from all eternity and man from man in time from His mother Mary. And this one and same Lord, Christ, Son, only-begotten, ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. From whence He shall come again to judge the quick and the dead and His kingdom shall have no end.

The dogma that Constantine championed

False. Constantine didn't champion the Trinitarian cause, in actual fact he rather quickly--following the Council of Nicea--took sides with Arius through the influence of some of his close friends, Eusebius of Nicomedia an Arian and Eusebius of Caesarea (the author of the Church History) who was an Arian sympathizer. Constantine, in point of fact, championed the Arian cause until his death, and on his death bed receive baptism from the Arian Eusebius of Nicomedia.

was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, "the Mother of God"?

This issue was raised due to the controversy surrounding the 5th century Patriarch of Constantinople, Nestorius. Because Nestorius argued that Mary can only be called Christotokos or Anthropotokos, but not Theotokos.

Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

FACT: The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention.

Jehovah is God, Jesus is his son and the Holy Spirit is God's Power.

"Fides autem catholica haec est: ut unum Deum in Trinitate, et Trinitatem in unitate veneremur."

-CryptoLutheran

 

[faroukfarouk]

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are affirmed strongly at the end of Matthew 28, in John's Gospel, especially chapters 13 thru 17; John's First Epistle, Romans 8, etc.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

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[Wgw]

I am disappointed, if not greatly surprised, that the OP has responded neither to myself nor ViaCrucis. I would hope we might be able to discuss this point in greater detail.

 

[drstevej]

The OP is a cut and paste from jw.org w/o a link

cf:
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2009804

 

[ewq1938]

Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclopædia Britannica states: ““Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . .

That's not true.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1Jn_5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

G5140
treis tria
trice, tree'-ah
A primary (plural) number; “three”: - three.

In scripture the Greek word for three is "treis" (pronounced as TRICE) and translated into Latin it became "trinitas" which means "the number three, a triad, three". Eventually it became "three" in English related to the prefix "Tri" which also means three from which the English word Trinity originates. Since scripture states "three that bear record in heaven" and lists the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as those three we can firmly know the Trinity is a scriptural term originating from the Greek for the word "three".

It did not originally have anything to do with "three persons" but simply "three". That is the purist meaning of the word Trinity without addition or alteration.

To coin a new word, Threenity.

 

[Wgw]

The OP is a cut and paste from jw.org w/o a link

cf:
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2009804

Unsurprising. Alas, it does bolster my not inconsiderable ego to note that I am not caught offguard by what is literally the best J/Ws can do.

 

[Hammster]

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