Man behind Dobbs decision now complains women being left to 'back-alley abortion butchers'

[RestoreTheJoy]

That strikes me as trying to control women. YMMV.

The reason women choose abortion are neither noble nor ignoble. They are personal to reach and generally center around resources or the lack the of.

But I'm curious about your response to my question about natural abortions. If, as you claim, pro life is focused on the right to life why are they not addressing natural abortions?

You are aware there were many women who advocated not voting as well? This wasn't about control. It was about the method of influence actually (in that day).

Abortion kills a baby that is growing in utero. That's just a given, no matter how many euphemisms are used. Some believe that's just fine, that mom's needs are paramount, because the baby has to grow in mom. Others believe a baby once conceived should get a chance to live, and if you don't want that, prevent it, which is really easy today - and if you can't be bothered, there is still Plan B.

What do you mean by natural abortions? Define your terms. Do you mean miscarriage?

 

[Belk]

You are aware there were many women who advocated not voting as well? This wasn't about control. It was about the method of influence actually (in that day).

I disagree.

Abortion kills a baby that is growing in utero. That's just a given, no matter how many euphemisms are used. Some believe that's just fine, that mom's needs are paramount, because the baby has to grow in mom. Others believe a baby once conceived should get a chance to live, and if you don't want that, prevent it, which is really easy today - and if you can't be bothered, there is still Plan B.

What do you mean by natural abortions? Define your terms. Do you mean miscarriage?

Yes a miscarriage, also known as a spontaneous abortion. About 10% - 20% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion. Likely the number is higher as many women have them prior to knowing they are pregnant.

Miscarriage - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

If the focus is that every conception should get a chance to live why is there not a huge focus on treating these issues? If I told you my focus was fighting cancer but the only action I took was trying to outlaw cigarettes you would rightly call my focus into question.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I disagree.

Yes a miscarriage, also known as a spontaneous abortion. About 10% - 20% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion. Likely the number is higher as many women have them prior to knowing they are pregnant.

Miscarriage - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

If the focus is that every conception should get a chance to live why is there not a huge focus on treating these issues? If I told you my focus was fighting cancer but the only action I took was trying to outlaw cigarettes you would rightly call my focus into question.

So ....what about it? Miscarriages happen spontaneously. They aren't an intentional act on the baby growing in utero. Not the same at all, as intentionally eliminating your own baby. They are "treated".

 

[Belk]

So ....what about it? Miscarriages happen spontaneously. They aren't an intentional act on the baby growing in utero. Not the same at all, as intentionally eliminating your own baby. They are "treated".

So the whole "believe a baby once conceived should get a chance to live" does not apply if it is spontaneous?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

So the whole "believe a baby once conceived should get a chance to live" does not apply if it is spontaneous?

Well, sure it should get a chance to live, but if the body is REJECTING it for one of a million reasons, it's not like one can do anything about that.

 

[Belk]

Well, sure it should get a chance to live, but if the body is REJECTING it for one of a million reasons, it's not like one can do anything about that.

Yeah. Nothing to be done. To bad so sad. Not like medical science is a thing.

It would appear my position is validated.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Yeah. Nothing to be done. To bad so sad. Not like medical science is a thing.

It would appear my position is validated.

So you have a solution to stop miscarriages? Let's hear it.

 

[Belk]

So you have a solution to stop miscarriages? Let's hear it.

Fund research into why they happen so that the number can be reduced.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Fund research into why they happen so that the number can be reduced.

Ok. Is anyone arguing against this?

 

[Belk]

Ok. Is anyone arguing against this?

Is anyone on the pro-life side exhorting people to do this? Do you understand the point people are making when they bring things like this up?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Is anyone on the pro-life side exhorting people to do this? Do you understand the point people are making when they bring things like this up?

You said and I quote: "Fund research into why they (miscarriages) happen so that the number can be reduced."

No one is saying this research shouldn't' happen. Your deflection to miscarriages is not at all what the post is about - intentionally eliminating one's own offspring.

 

[Desk trauma]

You said and I quote: "Fund research into why they (miscarriages) happen so that the number can be reduced."

No one is saying this research shouldn't' happen.

If the “it’s a child from conception and must be protected as such” position was taken seriously it would be unconscionable to be wasting medical resources on anything else. Between failure to implant and miscarriage most pregnancies fail, per the child from conception position that would mean the majority of all children everywhere are being killed by this scourge. Cancer and heart disease would take a back seat to something that awful with abortion not even registering. Yet here we are with it being shrugged at by those screaming about child from conception.

 

[Belk]

You said and I quote: "Fund research into why they (miscarriages) happen so that the number can be reduced."

No one is saying this research shouldn't' happen. Your deflection to miscarriages is not at all what the post is about - intentionally eliminating one's own offspring.

That is correct. In contradiction to your assertion which prompted my first response in this thread the debate is not about

No, that is actually the entire point of the pro-life movement and their conduct supports that; babies should be allowed to live once conceived. There were occasional protests, mostly standing along roads with signs.

The conduct of the "shout your abortion" folks would demonstrate otherwise though.

Two of the T-shirts this activist organization sells:

"I will aid and abet abortion."

"God's Plan includes Abortion".

Shout Your Abortion – Normalizing abortion and elevating safe paths to access, regardless of legality.

Shout Your Abortion is normalizing abortion and elevating safe paths to access, regardless of legality.

shoutyourabortion.com

It is about abortion and controlling women so they can not have one. "Babies being allowed to live once concieved" is just a rational to that end. As I have repeatedly stated my experiences show me that the rational does not fit the actions. It is so far off your radar you seem utterly confused in why I would even bring up miscarriage and try to steer the topic back to medical abortion.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

If the “it’s a child from conception and must be protected as such” position was taken seriously it would be unconscionable to be wasting medical resources on anything else. Between failure to implant and miscarriage most pregnancies fail, per the child from conception position that would mean the majority of all children everywhere are being killed by this scourge. Cancer and heart disease would take a back seat to something that awful with abortion not even registering. Yet here we are with it being shrugged at by those screaming about child from conception.

Because bad things sometimes spontaneously occur- as does miscarriage - does not mean we should intentionally cause more babies in utero to die. That's nonsense

 

[Desk trauma]

Because bad things sometimes spontaneously occur- as does miscarriage - does not mean we should intentionally cause more babies in utero to die. That's nonsense

That’s also not something I said.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

That’s also not something I said.

You: If the “it’s a child from conception and must be protected as such” position was taken seriously it would be unconscionable to be wasting medical resources on anything else. Between failure to implant and miscarriage most pregnancies fail, per the child from conception position that would mean the majority of all children everywhere are being killed by this scourge. Cancer and heart disease would take a back seat to something that awful with abortion not even registering. Yet here we are with it being shrugged at by those screaming about child from conception.

It is what you said. You suggested that IF miscarriage were important, we would focus all resources on that.

The two are incomparable: Miscarriage is spontaneous. Abortion is intentional.

 

[Pommer]

The two are incomparable: Miscarriage is spontaneous. Abortion is intentional.

Why would “intentional miscarriage“ be “different”?

 

[Desk trauma]

You: If the “it’s a child from conception and must be protected as such” position was taken seriously it would be unconscionable to be wasting medical resources on anything else. Between failure to implant and miscarriage most pregnancies fail, per the child from conception position that would mean the majority of all children everywhere are being killed by this scourge. Cancer and heart disease would take a back seat to something that awful with abortion not even registering. Yet here we are with it being shrugged at by those screaming about child from conception.

It is what you said. You suggested that IF miscarriage were important, we would focus all resources on that.

I suggested if the position of child from conception was t be taken seriously that would be the case. Actions demonstrate it isn’t.