Liberal vs Conservative TWO THREADS REQUIRED.

[Mustaphile]

I would like to propose a way of dealing with the deep conflict amongst believers on matters relating to divorce.

We have two different schools of thought, that I can see. If you can see any other groupings then feel free to suggest them.

Whenever a thread is started on the issue of divorce, all we ever achieve is a slanging match between the different proponents of the different schools of thought.

I would like to suggest we start two threads, which can be stickied to show the differing veiwpoints, which are moderated threads in which the conservatives can discuss their views without liberal comment and the liberals can discuss thier own without conservative comment.

I would hope this thread can serve as a basis for developing an idea on what seperates the two different groups.

Ideally it would be better to have two seperate forums on the issue as the when it comes to Liberal vs Conservative nothing throws us into more stark contrast than the issue relating to marriage. By throwing the two groups together in one area, we are creating an atmosphere of contention and strife. Many people will visit this forum seeking answers to quite difficult situations, but instead of answers they find two groups at each others throats in a direct parallel to their own lives. If this forum is to be a practical method of people finding answers to difficult questions then improvements have to be made in how the information is presented.

I would like to see an more elaborate declaration on both sides in TWO SEPERATE THREADS as to how they come to their viewpoint and how they seek to apply that.

Can anyone else see the need for some order in this issue?

 

[E-beth]

In an ideal setting, we would realize that we are all CHRISTIANS and we wouldn't need to divide into groups. However, we are not in an ideal world.

The purpose of the divorced or separated forum is to be a forum of ministry where people of like circumstance can aid one another and help each other renew in spirit and heal. When one posts, you cannot guarantee that you will agree with the views of every other poster. There is nothing wrong with disagreement, but when one person disagrees to the point of being hurtful or flaming, then the threads will be closed or edited.

I think if we all try we can agree to disagree for the purpose of the ministry. This forum is not a debate form and debate will not be allowed. But the suggestion will remain and if the need comes we will certainly look into the possibility.

What does everyone think? Do you think that divorce is an issue that liberals and conservatives can never see eye to eye on?

 

[seebs]

I don't think calling it "liberals" and "conservatives" helps much - and I don't think the divisions are as simple or as cut and dried as they have been made out to be.

I think what's called for here is simply that we try to uphold Christian ideals of behavior. We should act more out of compassion, and less out of a desire to convince others of our doctrinal positions. I think it is reasonably safe to guess that people who are going through divorces, or troubled marriages, are suffering. Shouldn't that guide us in our responses to them?

 

[Mustaphile]

I don't think calling it "liberals" and "conservatives" helps much - and I don't think the divisions are as simple or as cut and dried as they have been made out to be.

I think what's called for here is simply that we try to uphold Christian ideals of behavior. We should act more out of compassion, and less out of a desire to convince others of our doctrinal positions. I think it is reasonably safe to guess that people who are going through divorces, or troubled marriages, are suffering. Shouldn't that guide us in our responses to them?

I think the titles Liberal and Conservative apply, well.

What is a conservative?

They believe in the maintenance of the status quo and respect for established belief. The belief we have now is the belief we should adhere to. Change is not welcome in the conservative veiwpoint. The rules we have now are ok.

What is a liberal?

The believe in progresion and developing new understandings of belief. No hard and fast rules exist for every principle of God and we must seek to adapt to changing times and circumstances. Change is welcome in the liberal viewpoint. The rules we have now are not ok.


In that context of competing forces for change, which as I said earlier is no more starkly contrasted than in the beliefs about marriage and divorce.

In my opinion, we need one statement of conservative values and one statement of liberal values, both being offered as two ways of dealing with the situation.

What use is there in a conservative counselling a liberal on divorce?

The reverse applies...

What use is there in a liberal counselling a conserative on divorce?

One believes in progressive thinking and another believes in staunch defense of the status quo.

This is further confused by the fact that the majority of christians are not biblical scholars, they have an understanding of the basics, but they are not at the forefront of debate. Why is this point important? I assume this forum is designed to give some broad guidance and interaction between people who are going through divorce and separation. Someone seeking guidance needs both empathy and answers, and preferably in a short time frame. They don't have time to wade through fifty threads and quietly contemplate the answers over a glass of wine. They are in distress and confused. They don't have the time to becomce biblical scholars overnight and assess who' version of the story is correct. They need to be able to go directly to an information source that presents each side of the argument in isolation and then develop their own veiwpoint quickly so that they are not further confused and torn, in an already difficult situation.

So again, I would suggest two stickied threads in which one outlines the liberal view and one outlines the conservative view to allow for quick answers presented in a clear and concise fashion.

Currently if someone wanders in and asks the question, "Am I right to get divorced?", what they are presented with is rhetorical diatribe of both sides of the argument. Not always in a loving and compassionate spirit.

If we had two threads in which the two viewpoints could be seperated then we could avoid such confusion by pointing them to the threads.

The only real question that needs to be answered is what is that conservative viewpoint. As this is the standard from which all liberalism departs.

The conservative option would perhaps say.

Divorce is a sin. (accompanying scriptures)
Some say divorce is ok in cases of fornication/adultery (accompanying scriputure)
blah
blah
blah..

end of conservative view with discussion following perhaps.

Then you have a liberal thread in which viewpoints are presented that depart from conservative views only and what reasons people put forward for justifying that departure.

Abuse is justification for departing from conservative belief..(blah blah..reasons given)

Gambling is justification for departing from conservative views...(blah blah reasons given)


Perhaps if we could get the conservatives to step forward and show us the full gamut of conservative views bases soley on scripture and current conservative doctrine we could establish a guideline.

If perhaps no-one has the time or inclination to develop these sticky threads then perhaps we can come to an agreement on some websites off site that we can point people to that do give clear and concise answers. One sticky thread listing conservate websites and one sticky thread listing liberal websites.

The rest of the forum can then just carry on as normal. It's the need for quick reference guidelines that I think is the important issue.

 

[Desert Walker]

One thought, if you seperate into two views, will this really help people? For instance, depending on where we would like to be guided could draw us closer to one view point or the other. If we want to hear a certain view point, then it is possible to drift towards areas that agree with what we want to hear as opposed to what God actually wants us to hear. I'm not sure if splitting up into two camps would be a good idea. In a sense the question about divorce and separation is actually taking place in this question; Should this thread be separated into two areas - Conservative and Liberal? An irony of sorts. Just a thought I had.