LDS LDS: The JST ... Smith Spin & Bible Mangling

drstevej

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So you can compare them.

Contrary to the picture Steve keeps trying to paint, the Mormon Bible is the standard KJV, word for word. JS did not do some massive re-write.

I never said he did a massive rewrite.
But if what Mormons claim is true the KJV needs JST-ing.

But, as it is, the LDS can say:

The KJV is our Bible and appeal to non-LDS

while

Embracing the changes of Joe Smith which "handle" inconvenient truths (ex Romans 8:30)
 
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fatboys

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I never said he did a massive rewrite.
But if what Mormons claim is true the KJV needs JST-ing.

But, as it is, the LDS can say:

The KJV is our Bible and appeal to non-LDS

while

Embracing the changes of Joe Smith which "handle" inconvenient truths (ex Romans 8:30)
First off Joseph Smith wasn't able to complete the Revision. He was murdered at the hands of mobbers. Second perhaps had he finished it we would have it as our primary but even so his revision brings much light and understanding to the KJV.
 
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Hammster

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First off Joseph Smith wasn't able to complete the Revision. He was murdered at the hands of mobbers. Second perhaps had he finished it we would have it as our primary but even so his revision brings much light and understanding to the KJV.
God kinda dropped the ball on that one.
 
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drstevej

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First off Joseph Smith wasn't able to complete the Revision. He was murdered at the hands of mobbers. Second perhaps had he finished it we would have it as our primary but even so his revision brings much light and understanding to the KJV.

So God can't keep JS alive long enough to do the job?
He couldn't get BY to finish the task?
 
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Hammster

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So God can't keep JS alive long enough to do the job?
He couldn't get BY to finish the task?
Right. It's one thing to let Smith die. It's another to say He could not raise someone up to finish the job.
 
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Ironhold

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God kinda dropped the ball on that one.

Nope.

Humanity did.

There's a rather extensive - and unfortunate - history of scholars, scientists, religious leaders, and other such individuals being killed by people before they can finish whatever they were working on, in the process costing the world precious knowledge and insight, no matter how controversial.

This goes at least as far back as Archimedes, who was cut down by a random soldier.
 
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drstevej

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Nope.

Humanity did.

There's a rather extensive - and unfortunate - history of scholars, scientists, religious leaders, and other such individuals being killed by people before they can finish whatever they were working on, in the process costing the world precious knowledge and insight, no matter how controversial.

This goes at least as far back as Archimedes, who was cut down by a random soldier.

If this was a Joseph project his death ends it.
If it was a God project, Joe can be replaced.
 
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Hammster

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Nope.

Humanity did.

There's a rather extensive - and unfortunate - history of scholars, scientists, religious leaders, and other such individuals being killed by people before they can finish whatever they were working on, in the process costing the world precious knowledge and insight, no matter how controversial.

This goes at least as far back as Archimedes, who was cut down by a random soldier.
So his death stopped something that God wanted to happen?
 
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drstevej

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Perhaps his death was a judgment for changing (adding and subtracting) from God's Word.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Rev 22)
 
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Jane_Doe

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Perhaps his death was a judgment for changing (adding and subtracting) from God's Word.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Rev 22)

You know perfectly well that this verse refers to the book of Revelation.
 
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Hammster

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So if I understand this correctly, we have two versions because one wasn't completed, or at least it's assumed that it wasn't. So if it wasn't completed, how can we be sure that what was already revised wouldn't be revised even more?
 
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Jane_Doe

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So if I understand this correctly, we have two versions because one wasn't completed, or at least it's assumed that it wasn't. So if it wasn't completed, how can we be sure that what was already revised wouldn't be revised even more?

You spend a lot of time worrying about things no Mormon does.

When additional revelation of any type comes, then we'll welcome it when it does-- on God's time table.
 
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Hammster

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You spend a lot of time worrying about things no Mormon does.

When additional revelation of any type comes, then we'll welcome it when it does-- on God's time table.
I don't worry at all about what Mormon's do. I am concerned about what you believe because what you believe leads to death.

So how do you determine which version to use to determine doctrine?
 
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Jane_Doe

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I don't worry at all about what Mormon's do. I am concerned about what you believe because what you believe leads to death.

I respectfully disagree. And if you're trying to save me, should you spend your time trying to share your views with me? You don't do a lot of that.

So how do you determine which version to use to determine doctrine?

You've had this answered before. I'm tired of repeating myself.
 
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Lulav

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You know perfectly well that this verse refers to the book of Revelation.
But it is not only there at the end, but also at the beginning.

Deuteronomy 4:2 "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 "Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.
 
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Hammster

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I respectfully disagree. And if you're trying to save me, should you spend your time trying to share your views with me? You don't do a lot of that.



You've had this answered before. I'm tired of repeating myself.
I've not asked that question. So it hasn't been answered.

I'm not sure why you are getting upset. I'm giving you guys the opportunity to defend what you believe. I haven't mocked your beliefs. I've used your own words. There's been no malice on my part.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The JST (Joseph Smith Translation) purports to restore the original intent of the Bible via prophetic insight. Often there is no manuscript support for the JST rendering, This thread will provide a number of examples of Joseph Smith writing his views in and claiming prophet's license.

Illustration #1

John 6:44 (JST)


44 No man can come unto me, except he doeth the will of my Father who hath sent me. And this is the will of him who hath sent me, that ye receive the Son; for the Father beareth record of him; and he who receiveth the testimony, and doeth the will of him who sent me, I will raise up in the resurrection of the just.

John 6:44 (KJV)


44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 (Greek Text)

44 ουδεις δυναται ελθειν προς με εαν μη ο πατηρ ο πεμψας με ελκυση αυτον καγω αναστησω αυτον εν τη εσχατη ημερα

No manuscript contains the JST additions to the text. Shameful mangling of God's Word.
Sounds more like a paraphrase version translation of which there are a few around...I myself don't see anything really wrong with them, tho I would not use them.

Are JWs and LDSs not considered Christian?

https://www.olivetree.com/resources/bibles/paraphrasedtranslations.php

Paraphrased translations use modern lanugage and idoms to try to capture the thought and essence behind the original text. Compare Psalm 27:4 in many Bible translations.

Bible version Description
Easy-to-Read Version - ERV It is perfect for outreach, correctional ministries, and those who want a text which is easy to understand.

God's Word
An update to An American Translation (AAT), God's Word to the Nations (a form equivalence translation of sorts).

Good News Bible - GNB, Today's English Version - TEV
A new translation, (1976), which seeks to state clearly and accurately the meaning of the original texts in words and forms that are widely accepted by people who use English as a language. It attempts to set forth the Biblical content and message in a standard, everyday, natural form of English.

The Living Bible - TLB
The Living Bible is Kenneth Taylor's interpretive paraphrase of the Bible. Taylor created this paraphrase as a help for those who wanted to read the Bible to children without having to stop and explain many things. In a 1979 interview published in Christianity Today he explained that the version began in the context of his efforts to explain the biblical text to his own children during family devotions.

The Message
This translation is a unique Bible-reading experience, a paraphrase by author Eugene Peterson of the traditional Bible text. With no formal language, The Message® reads like a letter from an old friend. Because it's easier to understand, it's easier to make the connection between what you're reading and what it means for your everyday life. The Message® is not meant to replace your current version of choice. Rather, it is designed as a reading Bible that can give you a fresh perspective on a familiar phrase or passage.

http://www.learnthebible.org/paraphrase-bibles.html

A paraphrase bible is one that allows the greatest level of liberty in translation. In fact, translation is probably too strong a word for many of the paraphrase bibles out there. Among paraphrase bibles, I am most familiar with the Amplified Bible. I have called it the Multiple Choice Bible because it tends to give a string of synonymous words or phrases in order to give numerous ideas as to what the verse might be saying. Unfortunately, it tends to confuse the sincere Bible student by giving a myriad of choices.

For the creative teacher who needs evidence for his own unique doctrine, this bible is a storehouse of choices. If you do not like what the Bible says or if you simply need proof for a particular point, this paraphrase will often give you just what you need. But in reality, it makes God sound like a wishy-washy deity who must leave the real meaning of truth up to each person's whim.........
 
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Ironhold

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But it is not only there at the end, but also at the beginning.

Deuteronomy 4:2 "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 "Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

...which makes it even worse because the same literal reading of these verses would prohibit any scripture beyond the Pentateuch.

Seriously - this line of argument is dead in the water.
 
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Lulav

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...which makes it even worse because the same literal reading of these verses would prohibit any scripture beyond the Pentateuch.

Seriously - this line of argument is dead in the water.
It depends on what your definition of scripture is. What it is saying in Deut. is to not take away from anything or add to it in there, the Torah regarding G-ds directives; and anything following must not diminish his commands in any way. This includes from the Prophets which were spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 22:34-40.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Nope.

Humanity did.

There's a rather extensive - and unfortunate - history of scholars, scientists, religious leaders, and other such individuals being killed by people before they can finish whatever they were working on, in the process costing the world precious knowledge and insight, no matter how controversial.

This goes at least as far back as Archimedes, who was cut down by a random soldier.
We are talking very specifically about God and religion. What do scholars and scientists have to do with anything? Just another thing you throw out there to get us off topic. It does make me pause that you do this so regularly. Talking about other types of people when we are clearly talking about those who have been chosen by God to write holy and sacred works of faith. I see a definite pattern here.
 
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