Jesus's "half-siblings"

Soulx3

Active Member
Feb 22, 2024
170
22
35
PNW
✟3,786.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Im not going to go down rabbit holes in order for you to try and justify your denominational thinking, by trying to overturn the plain words of Christ

"I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he" (Lk. 7:28)

If the meaning of Jesus's words in Lk. 7:28 is plain and you understand it as you claim, then explain why of those born of women there is no one greater than John, as well as name those who are the least in the kingdom of God and are greater than John.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

simplefaith

Active Member
Mar 28, 2024
84
14
69
malvern
✟762.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
"I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he" (Lk. 7:28)

If the meaning of Jesus's words is plain as you claim, then you should be able to explain why of those born of women there is no one greater than John, as well as name those who are the least in the kingdom of God and are greater than John.
The second part of your question is nonsense, as I'm sure anyone reading this would know. Why should I aid you in trying to overturn the plain words of Christ? Anyone who fore sakes themselves completely to do the work of God such as John did, is, in God's eyes the best of humanity, or the greatest if you like. Who can claim to be greater than that?
 
Upvote 0

Soulx3

Active Member
Feb 22, 2024
170
22
35
PNW
✟3,786.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Anyone who fore sakes themselves completely to do the work of God such as John did, is, in God's eyes the best of humanity, or the greatest if you like. Who can claim to be greater than that?

Jesus said the one who is least in the Kingdom of God is greater than John. So, who do you understand to be "the least?"
 
Upvote 0

simplefaith

Active Member
Mar 28, 2024
84
14
69
malvern
✟762.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Jesus said the least in the Kingdom of God is greater than John. So, who do you understand to be "the least?"
You are only asking questions, not answering any. Though your question is simple to answer, address what I have just written to you. Debate must be two way. Who is greater than someone who completely foresakes themself to live for only doing the will of God?
 
Upvote 0

Soulx3

Active Member
Feb 22, 2024
170
22
35
PNW
✟3,786.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
You are only asking questions, not answering any. Though your question is simple to answer, address what I have just written to you. Debate must be two way. Who is greater than someone who completely foresakes themself to live for only doing the will of God?

Actually, I asked you that question first in post #41, the same question you called "nonsense." If the question is simple to answer, then why didn't you just include your answer in that post? I wouldn't wait for someone else to answer first. I'd just answer if I know the answer. Do you need me to answer it first?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

simplefaith

Active Member
Mar 28, 2024
84
14
69
malvern
✟762.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
If the question is simple to answer, then why didn't you just include your answer in that post? I wouldn't wait for someone else to answer first. I'd just answer if I know the answer. Do you need me to answer it first?
So you cannot refute either post given to you, neither respond to an answer given upon request, only keep asking questions. We can let the independant observer decide who is more forthcoming here than the other
 
Upvote 0

Soulx3

Active Member
Feb 22, 2024
170
22
35
PNW
✟3,786.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
So you cannot refute either post given to you, neither respond to an answer given upon request, only keep asking questions. We can let the independant observer decide who is more forthcoming here than the other

I guess that's a yes you do need me to answer first. Ok, I'll answer first if that helps you. Jesus said that among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. So, who is the least in the Kingdom of Heaven greater than John? It's Jesus because He is a son of God not of woman.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

simplefaith

Active Member
Mar 28, 2024
84
14
69
malvern
✟762.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I guess that's a yes you do need me to answer first. Ok, I'll answer first if that helps you. Jesus said that among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. So, who is the least in the Kingdom of Heaven greater than John? It's Jesus because He is a son of God not of woman.
That's the incorrect answer. However, I note you cannot tell me who is greater than someone who completely abandons self in order to do the will of God. Someone who's food for example was locusts and wild honey, someone on whom the Spirit was upon from his birth
 
Upvote 0

simplefaith

Active Member
Mar 28, 2024
84
14
69
malvern
✟762.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I guess that's a yes you do need me to answer first. Ok, I'll answer first if that helps you. Jesus said, "among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. So, who is the least in the Kingdom of Heaven greater than John? It's Jesus because He is a Son of God not of woman.
In the third example of the parable of the sower, people kept getting sidetracked from the path they should have been on by worldly things. Jesus did not say they walked away, unlike those in the second example, only they did not mature. You mature by evermore practicing right from wrong

The people in the fourth example stay on the right path, they persevere and produce a crop unto a hundred times what is planted. Both sets of people make it to heaven, but there are rewards for how we have lived on earth. So, who is considered the greater in heaven, those in the third or fourth examples of the parable?
 
Upvote 0

Soulx3

Active Member
Feb 22, 2024
170
22
35
PNW
✟3,786.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
However, I note you cannot tell me who is greater than someone who completely abandons self in order to do the will of God. Someone who's food for example was locusts and wild honey, someone on whom the Spirit was upon from his birth

What do you mean I cannot tell you? You asked for my answer to the question: "Who is the least in the Kingdom of Heaven that is greater than John?" and in post #47 I told you it's Jesus. Below is the reason why:

John is more than a prophet. He is more than many saints, because he is the one of whom it is written: "Look, I am going to send my angel to prepare Your way before You" (Malachi: 3:1) Angel. Consider this. You know that the angels are pure spirits created by God to His spiritual likeness and placed as a link between man, the perfection of the visible and material creation, and God, the Perfection of Heaven and Earth, Creator of the spiritual Kingdom and of the animal kingdom. Even in the holiest man there is always flesh and blood forming an abyss between him and God. And the abyss subsides under the weight of sin that weighs down also what is spiritual in man. So God created the angels, creatures reaching the summit of the creation scale, just as minerals lie at its base, minerals being the dust forming the earth and inorganic materials in general. They are clear mirrors of the Thought of God, willing flames operating out of love, ready to understand, quick in acting, free in willing as we are, but their entirely holy will ignores the rebellion and incentive of sin. That is what the angels adoring God are, His messengers to men, our protectors, who grant us the Light that shines on them and the Fire that they gather worshiping.

John is called "angel" by the prophetic word. And Jesus said: "Of all the children born of women, a greater one than John the Baptist has never been seen." Yet the least in the Kingdom of Heaven will be greater than John-man. Because one of the Kingdom of Heaven is a son of God and not of woman.

What is your answer to the question: "Who is the least in the Kingdom of Heaven that is greater than John?"

In the third example of the parable of the sower, people kept getting sidetracked from the path they should have been on by worldly things. Jesus did not say they walked away, unlike those in the second example, only they did not mature. You mature by evermore practicing right from wrong

The people in the fourth example stay on the right path, they persevere and produce a crop unto a hundred times what is planted. Both sets of people make it to heaven, but there are rewards for how we have lived on earth. So, who is considered the greater in heaven, those in the third or fourth examples of the parable?

A sower went out to sow. He owned many fields of various kinds. He had inherited some from his father, on which his carelessness had allowed thorny plants to proliferate. Other fields had been purchased by him: he had bought them from a neglectful man and he had left them as they were. In other fields there were many intersecting roads, as the man loved comfort and did not like to travel a long way when going from one place to another. Finally, there were some fields, the closest to his house, which he had looked after to have a pleasant sight in front of his house. They were free from stones, thorns, couch-grass and so on.

So the man took his sack of seed-corn of the best quality, and began to sow. The seed fell on the good soft soil, which had been ploughed, weeded, fertilized, in the fields near the house. It was spread in the fields with many roads and paths, which divided them into small portions, and caused also the fertile soil to be covered by ugly arid dust. Some of the seed fell on the fields where the foolishness of the man had allowed the thorny plants to proliferate. The plough had turned them upside down, it looked as if they were not there, but they were, because only fire, the radical destructor of weeds, prevents them from growing again. The last seed fell on the fields which he had recently bought and had left as they were, without ploughing them and without removing all the stones, which had sunk into the ground forming a hard pavement on which no plant could take root. After scattering all the seed, he went back home and said: "Very well! All I have to do is to wait for the harvest." And he was delighted because, as months went by, he saw the corn come up thick in the fields near the house and grow... oh! what a beautiful sea! and it turned gold and it sang hosannas to the sun, as one ear rubbed against another. The man said to himself: "All the fields are like these ones! Let us prepare sickles and granaries. How much bread! How much gold!" And he was delighted...

He cut the corn in the nearest fields and after that he went to the ones which he had inherited from his father and which he had left in a wild state. And he was taken aback. The corn had come up, because the fields were good and the soil cultivated by the father was rich and fertile. But its fertility had affected also the thorny plants which had been overturned but not destroyed. They had grown again and had formed a really thick ceiling of bramble, through which the corn had not been able to emerge, with the exception of a few ears, and it was completely suffocated.

The man said: "I neglected this place. But there was no bramble in the other fields, so it should be all right." And he went to the fields which he had purchased shortly before. His surprise and grief were greater. The thin withered corn leaves were strewn all over like dry hay. Nothing but dry hay. "How come?" moaned the man. "And yet there are no thorns here! And it was the same seed! And it had come up thick and beautiful. It can be seen by the well formed and numerous leaves. Why then did it all wither before coming into ear?" And with real regret he began to dig the ground to see whether there were any mole burrows or other pests. There were no insects or rodents. But how many stones! A stone-pit! The fields were literally paved with chips of stone and the scanty earth covering them was deceiving. Oh! if he had ploughed deep at the right time! Oh! if he had dug the ground before accepting the fields and buying them as good ones! Oh! if, after the mistake he had made in buying what he had been offered without making sure of its goodness, if at least he had improved them by working hard! It was now too late and all regret was useless.

The man stood up, and, downhearted as he was, he went to the fields where he had built many roads for his comfort... and mad with grief he tore off his clothes. There was absolutely nothing there... The dark soil of the field was covered with a thin layer of white dust... The man collapsed to the ground moaning: "But why here? There are no stones, no bramble here, because these are our fields. My grandfather, my father and I have always owned them and in many many years we made them fertile. I built the roads, I have taken some of the earth away, but that could not make them so sterile... " He was still weeping when he received the answer to his grief from a swarm of birds which flew eagerly from the paths to the field and back to the paths in search of seeds... The field, which had been turned into a network of paths, on the edges of which the corn had fallen, had attracted many birds, which first had eaten the corn on the paths and then the seeds in the field, down to the last grain.

So the same seed, sown in all the fields, had yielded one hundred to one in some, sixty, thirty, nothing in others. The seed is the Word: the same for everybody. The places where the seed fell: our hearts.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

simplefaith

Active Member
Mar 28, 2024
84
14
69
malvern
✟762.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
What do you mean I cannot tell you? You asked for my answer to the question: "Who is the least in the Kingdom of Heaven that is greater than John?" and in post #47 I told you it's Jesus. Below is the reason why:

John is more than a prophet. He is more than many saints, because he is the one of whom it is written: "Look, I am going to send my angel to prepare Your way before You" (Malachi: 3:1) Angel. Consider this. You know that the angels are pure spirits created by God to His spiritual likeness and placed as a link between man, the perfection of the visible and material creation, and God, the Perfection of Heaven and Earth, Creator of the spiritual Kingdom and of the animal kingdom. Even in the holiest man there is always flesh and blood forming an abyss between him and God. And the abyss subsides under the weight of sin that weighs down also what is spiritual in man. So God created the angels, creatures reaching the summit of the creation scale, just as minerals lie at its base, minerals being the dust forming the earth and inorganic materials in general. They are clear mirrors of the Thought of God, willing flames operating out of love, ready to understand, quick in acting, free in willing as we are, but their entirely holy will ignores the rebellion and incentive of sin. That is what the angels adoring God are, His messengers to men, our protectors, who grant us the Light that shines on them and the Fire that they gather worshiping.

John is called "angel" by the prophetic word. And Jesus said: "Of all the children born of women, a greater one than John the Baptist has never been seen." Yet the least in the Kingdom of Heaven will be greater than John-man. Because one of the Kingdom of Heaven is a son of God and not of woman.

What is your answer to the question: "Who is the least in the Kingdom of Heaven that is greater than John?"



A sower went out to sow. He owned many fields of various kinds. He had inherited some from his father, on which his carelessness had allowed thorny plants to proliferate. Other fields had been purchased by him: he had bought them from a neglectful man and he had left them as they were. In other fields there were many intersecting roads, as the man loved comfort and did not like to travel a long way when going from one place to another. Finally, there were some fields, the closest to his house, which he had looked after to have a pleasant sight in front of his house. They were free from stones, thorns, couch-grass and so on.

So the man took his sack of seed-corn of the best quality, and began to sow. The seed fell on the good soft soil, which had been ploughed, weeded, fertilized, in the fields near the house. It was spread in the fields with many roads and paths, which divided them into small portions, and caused also the fertile soil to be covered by ugly arid dust. Some of the seed fell on the fields where the foolishness of the man had allowed the thorny plants to proliferate. The plough had turned them upside down, it looked as if they were not there, but they were, because only fire, the radical destructor of weeds, prevents them from growing again. The last seed fell on the fields which he had recently bought and had left as they were, without ploughing them and without removing all the stones, which had sunk into the ground forming a hard pavement on which no plant could take root. After scattering all the seed, he went back home and said: "Very well! All I have to do is to wait for the harvest." And he was delighted because, as months went by, he saw the corn come up thick in the fields near the house and grow... oh! what a beautiful sea! and it turned gold and it sang hosannas to the sun, as one ear rubbed against another. The man said to himself: "All the fields are like these ones! Let us prepare sickles and granaries. How much bread! How much gold!" And he was delighted...

He cut the corn in the nearest fields and after that he went to the ones which he had inherited from his father and which he had left in a wild state. And he was taken aback. The corn had come up, because the fields were good and the soil cultivated by the father was rich and fertile. But its fertility had affected also the thorny plants which had been overturned but not destroyed. They had grown again and had formed a really thick ceiling of bramble, through which the corn had not been able to emerge, with the exception of a few ears, and it was completely suffocated.

The man said: "I neglected this place. But there was no bramble in the other fields, so it should be all right." And he went to the fields which he had purchased shortly before. His surprise and grief were greater. The thin withered corn leaves were strewn all over like dry hay. Nothing but dry hay. "How come?" moaned the man. "And yet there are no thorns here! And it was the same seed! And it had come up thick and beautiful. It can be seen by the well formed and numerous leaves. Why then did it all wither before coming into ear?" And with real regret he began to dig the ground to see whether there were any mole burrows or other pests. There were no insects or rodents. But how many stones! A stone-pit! The fields were literally paved with chips of stone and the scanty earth covering them was deceiving. Oh! if he had ploughed deep at the right time! Oh! if he had dug the ground before accepting the fields and buying them as good ones! Oh! if, after the mistake he had made in buying what he had been offered without making sure of its goodness, if at least he had improved them by working hard! It was now too late and all regret was useless.

The man stood up, and, downhearted as he was, he went to the fields where he had built many roads for his comfort... and mad with grief he tore off his clothes. There was absolutely nothing there... The dark soil of the field was covered with a thin layer of white dust... The man collapsed to the ground moaning: "But why here? There are no stones, no bramble here, because these are our fields. My grandfather, my father and I have always owned them and in many many years we made them fertile. I built the roads, I have taken some of the earth away, but that could not make them so sterile... " He was still weeping when he received the answer to his grief from a swarm of birds which flew eagerly from the paths to the field and back to the paths in search of seeds... The field, which had been turned into a network of paths, on the edges of which the corn had fallen, had attracted many birds, which first had eaten the corn on the paths and then the seeds in the field, down to the last grain.

So the same seed, sown in all the fields, had yielded one hundred to one in some, sixty, thirty, nothing in others. The seed is the Word: the same for everybody. The places where the seed fell: your hearts.
Nothing you have written refutes the answers I gave you. Im glad you cannot refute no one is greater than John who has naturally been born of woman. Neither can you refute why some will be greater and some less than others in the kingdom of Heaven.
 
Upvote 0

Soulx3

Active Member
Feb 22, 2024
170
22
35
PNW
✟3,786.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Nothing you have written refutes the answers I gave you. Im glad you cannot refute no one is greater than John who has naturally been born of woman. Neither can you refute why some will be greater and some less than others in the kingdom of Heaven.

You may not agree with my answers, but out of the two of us I actually gave answers. I don't see your answer to my question "Who is the least in the Kingdom of Heaven that is greater than John?"
 
Upvote 0

simplefaith

Active Member
Mar 28, 2024
84
14
69
malvern
✟762.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
You may not agree with my answers, but out of the two of us I actually gave answers.
Your answers are plainly wrong. But I understand, anything must be reasoned to defend denominational belief. No one born naturally of woman is greater than John. And, in Heaven for example those mentioned in the fourth example of the parable of the sower will be considered greater than those mentioned in the third example. To be honest, it is so simple to understand
 
Upvote 0

simplefaith

Active Member
Mar 28, 2024
84
14
69
malvern
✟762.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
You may not agree with my answers, but out of the two of us I actually gave answers. I don't see your answer to my question "Who is the least in the Kingdom of Heaven that is greater than John?"
Ah just seen what you added. John Smith say makes it to Heaven, he has done the least good works, and detoured from the path he should have been on more than any other. So, he is considered the least in the kingdom of Heaven. However, anyone dwelling in the sinless Heaven will always be considered greater than anyone walking this earth in a body of flesh.
 
Upvote 0

Soulx3

Active Member
Feb 22, 2024
170
22
35
PNW
✟3,786.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
John Smith say makes it to Heaven, he has done the least good works, and detoured from the path he should have been on more than any other. So, he is considered the least in the kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus said the one who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than John. If the one who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is one who does the least good works and has detoured from the path as you say, why are they greater than John?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

simplefaith

Active Member
Mar 28, 2024
84
14
69
malvern
✟762.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Jesus said the one who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than John. If the one who does the least good works and has detoured from the path is the least in the Kingdom of Heaven, how are they greater than John?
Please read what I wrote, that has been answered in my previous post. Reread it slowly
 
Upvote 0

John G.

Active Member
Feb 2, 2024
115
68
69
N. Ireland
✟11,697.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Divorced
The Greek word used here is αδελφοί meaning brothers. It does not mean cousins as Greek has a different word for that (εξάδελφοι).
James, Joseph, Judas and Simon; as well at least two girls, were children of Joseph and Mary.
Btw, Judas - the brother of Jesus - is not related to the disciple Judas Thaddeus. The latter was the son of someone called James / Yaakov (Luke 6:16)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: simplefaith
Upvote 0

simplefaith

Active Member
Mar 28, 2024
84
14
69
malvern
✟762.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I have. If I misunderstood, please clarify yourself.
The least in the kingdom of Heaven is dwelling in the sinless/perfect Heaven. They have jettisoned their body of flesh, for flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven(1Cor15:50) No matter how great someone is who walks this earth, they cannot be compared to anyone actually dwelling in the perfect Heaven, for they, unlike the person in Heaven still dwells in their imperfect body of flesh. And no one is perfect in the body of flesh
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Soulx3

Active Member
Feb 22, 2024
170
22
35
PNW
✟3,786.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
The least in the kingdom of Heaven is dwelling in the sinless/perfect Heaven. They have jettisoned their body of flesh, for flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven(1Cor15:50) No matter how great someone is who walks this earth, they cannot be compared to anyone actually dwelling in the perfect Heaven, for they, unlike the person in Heaven still dwells in their imperfect body of flesh. And no one is perfect in the body of flesh

That can't be the answer because Jesus said, "among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." Who is "the one," meaning a singular individual, who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven and greater than John?
 
Upvote 0