IYO, what is obedience to Christ?

[Rescued One]

IYO, what is obedience to Christ according to your denomination?

 

[Soyeong]

In Matthew 4:17-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Law of Moses was how audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is the way to obey Christ. Christ also set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses, so he still would have taught full obedience to it by example even if he has said nothing, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), and to be imitators of Paul as he was an imitator of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1). In other words, the Law of Moses would be the way to obey Christ even if he has said nothing. The Law of Moses is truth (Psalms 119:142), the sum of God's word is truth (Psalms 119:160), Jesus is God's word made flesh (John 1:14), and Jesus is the living embodiment of the truth (John 14:6), so obedience to the Law of Moses is the way to obey the truth. My denomination is Messianic Judaism.

 

[d taylor]

-​

Obedience to Christ, is what a believer should try to do with their life, so that they may receive a good inheritance (reward) in the life to come. Obedience to The Christ is not a requirement to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Obedience for the believer may include this (from Is Obedience Optional? – Grace Evangelical Society)

If when one asks, “Is obedience optional,” he means, “Is obedience optional in order to please God and grow in the Christian life?” the answer is a resounding no.

Many things are conditioned upon ongoing obedience for the Christian. They include: progressive sanctification, the fruit of the Spirit, present blessings, eternal rewards (including eternal treasure, rulership, special garments, special abundance of life, etc.), pleasing God, being praised by the Lord Jesus at His Judgment Seat, feeling confident and not ashamed of ourselves at His Judgment Seat, and being in fellowship with God and with committed Christians.

God commands us to obey Him and that many blessings come with obedience and many unpleasant things come with disobedience.

Free Grace Gives Better Reasons to Obey God – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Rescued One]

In Matthew 4:17-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Law of Moses was how audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is the way to obey Christ. Christ also set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses, so he still would have taught full obedience to it by example even if he has said nothing, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), and to be imitators of Paul as he was an imitator of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1). In other words, the Law of Moses would be the way to obey Christ even if he has said nothing. The Law of Moses is truth (Psalms 119:142), the sum of God's word is truth (Psalms 119:160), Jesus is God's word made flesh (John 1:14), and Jesus is the living embodiment of the truth (John 14:6), so obedience to the Law of Moses is the way to obey the truth. My denomination is Messianic Judaism.

Thank you. I wonder if Mega churches attract large numbers because people don't want rules. We'll see who responds.

 

[Soyeong]

Thank you. I wonder if Mega churches attract large numbers because people don't want rules. We'll see who responds.

You're welcome. The Psalms express an extremely positive attitude towards the Law of Moses, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct attitude towards the Law of Moses, then we will share it, as Paul did (Romans 7:22), while it is contradictory for someone to affirm the truth of everything said in the Psalms as Scripture while not wanting to obey the Law of Moses. For example, according to Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the law of the Lord and who meditate on it day on night, so we can't believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our attitude towards the Law of Moses.

 

[Rescued One]

I'm not Messianic, but I wonder how man people in various denomonations believe that conversion to Christ doesn't result in a lifestyle change. I was not raised in s Christian (or any other religious) home.

 

[Rescued One]

d taylor, can you tell me which denominations come from Dallas Theological Seminary?

" theological beliefs of the school include: premillennialism, dispensationalism, and Biblical inerrancy. The school considers itself non-denominational within Protestantism, and offers classes in all 66 books of the Protestant Bible.[8]"

Wikipedia

I've never attended a premiennial or dispensational church to my knowledge.

I'll probably be back tomorrow.

 

[Soyeong]

I'm not Messianic, but I wonder how man people in various denomonations believe that conversion to Christ doesn't result in a lifestyle change. I was not raised in s Christian (or any other religious) home.

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeyed God's commandments and in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeyed the greatest two commandments, so it is clearly false that obedience to The Christ is not a requirement to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. The issue is that there are also verses like John 3:16 that say that the way to have eternal life is by believing in the Son and the problem is that some people mistakenly consider believing in the Son to be an alternative way to have eternal life that doesn't involve obeying God's commandments, which is problematic especially when the purpose of God's commandments is to teach us how to believe in the Son. So the reality is that Matthew 19:17 and John 3:16 are equating obeying God's commandments with believing in the Son, not speaking about two different routes to eternal life. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses that he might know Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the Law of Moses, which again is eternal life (John 17:3).

 

[disciple Clint]

IYO, what is obedience to Christ according to your denomination?

2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.


Treasury of Scripture

 

[Rescued One]

I would like to know what different denominations teach. I can read the Bible to see the verses. My concern is that some churches don't teach the members to obey. Their services seem geared towards entertainment. Another thing that bothers me is the way people discipline their children. "Be slow to anger" unless your kid is acting up?

So there are Southern Baptists, Reformed Baptists, General Baptists, Methodists. Prebyterians, Wesleyans, Nazarene, Assemblys of God, Missionary Churches, etc. We can look up their Statements of Faith but what do they teach about raising kids and about marriage? Why would a Christian be involved with CPS? Why would a Christian have children that resent him or her? Why are pastors and Christians reluctant to talk about human behavior? I've always had questions about lots of things.

Am I the only one?

 

[GDL]

Why are pastors and Christians reluctant to talk about human behavior? I've always had questions about lots of things.

Am I the only one?

You're not the only one. At this point I don't think we ever stop asking and seeking Him. Even when this is over, I think we'll be asking Him forever.

IMO one of the reasons human behavior is not addressed more is because it will inevitably lead into a discussion of God's Law and many denominations think we have nothing to do with it anymore. IMO this is a grievous failure.

Obedience to Christ is not an option if one desires eternal life. @Soyeong lays this out as well as I've seen it done. Christian Faith is at minimum parallel to obeying God (Rom10:16; Heb3:18-19; 1John3:23 et.al.). If we read closely the @d taylor post and the teachings of Free Grace Dispensationalism, obedience is an option because it is distinct from faith. Then obedience is not optional if we want more from our faith than eternal life.

Obedience to Christ is keeping His commandments, His word, which is love for Him (John14:15, 23-24). In those times love for a king was doing what the king said. The concept of love being obedience may be odd to our ears, but it was not odd in those times. This entire saga we're living through is a battle concerning one issue - who is God - who is ultimate authority? So, we choose and who we choose we bow to and obey, which is to love.

There are approximately 1,000 commands in the NC Writings. As @Soyeong writes, the NC in Christ ties us back to the Mosaic Law. Hebrews explains that God's Law was changed (not abolished) to at minimum provide for the Priesthood of Jesus Christ and discontinue the old sacrificial system. Obedience to Jesus Christ is keeping God's commandments - all that remain applicable under the NC - which is ultimately love for God, neighbor and one another as Christians.

I don't belong to a denomination. On this topic I find the best discussions to be with some Messianics, some SDA, some Reformed, some Roman Catholics, etc. - anyone who has some regard for God's Law used lawfully.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Obedience to Christ is simply doing what he says to do, and not doing what he says not to do. Just as we obeyed our parents. Just as we obey our employer.

Specifically: Just as Jesus obeyed the Father.

What are we to say, that even though Jesus was obedient to the point of death, we don't need to be?

Did Jesus need to be obedient? What would have happened to him if he hadn't been obedient? Would he have lost his salvation? Or was it that that wasn't ever even in play? Getting a ticket to heaven? He had already spent eternity in heaven up to that point.

So what was Jesus' motivation to obediently carry out and fulfill his mission?

Love perhaps?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

IYO, what is obedience to Christ according to your denomination?

Obedience is through the power of His Holy Spirit. The Helper. When we are regenerated we begin the process of santification as we walk with Him daily. This should not be a denominational truth because it is the Christian truth for all belivers regardless of their affiliation. That being said, AOG was my denomination when I converted.
Blessings.

 

[GDL]

What are we to say, that even though Jesus was obedient to the point of death, we don't need to be?

Nice rhetoric. NKJ Heb12:4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

So what was Jesus' motivation to obediently carry out and fulfill his mission?

Love perhaps?

Yes & to provide the example & way for us to follow.

Obedience is through the power of His Holy Spirit. The Helper.

Agreed.

This should not be a denominational truth because it is the Christian truth for all belivers regardless of their affiliation.

Agreed again.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Nice rhetoric. NKJ Heb12:4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

I understand the meaning of the verse, but I don't get your application of it in response to what I said.

 

[Rescued One]

I would like to know what different denominations teach. I can read the Bible to see the verses. My concern is that some churches don't teach the members to obey. Their services seem geared towards entertainment. Another thing that bothers me is the way people discipline their children. "Be slow to anger" unless your kid is acting up?

So there are Southern Baptists, Reformed Baptists, General Baptists, Methodists. Prebyterians, Wesleyans, Nazarene, Assemblys of God, Missionary Churches, etc. We can look up their Statements of Faith but what do they teach about raising kids and about marriage? Why would a Christian be involved with CPS? Why would a Christian have children that resent him or her? Why are pastors and Christians reluctant to talk about human behavior? I've always had questions about lots of things.

Am I the only one?

I apologize for starting this thread.

 

[Soyeong]

I apologize for starting this thread.

Why?

 

[GDL]

Why?

Second "why"?

 

[Rescued One]

Because I must not know how to communicate. Here's a list of beliefs of Church of the Nazrene. However, it's a mega church and it seems to be geared towards entertainment and generic sermons. It doesn't tell people what holiness is. The following isn't something I've heard there. I'm not now and have never believed that Christians are "entirely sanctified" as in being completely formed to the image of Christ. But this denomination used to be very conservative with more rules than Wesleyans. I'm confused about the changes.

WE ARE A HOLINESS PEOPLE​

God, who is holy, calls us to a life of holiness - He wants us to become more like Him! We believe that the Holy Spirit seeks to do in us a second work of grace, bringing us to a place of full surrender where God sanctifies us, empowers us to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, and produces in us the character of Christ.

WE ARE A MISSIONAL PEOPLE​

Responding to the call of Christ and empowered by the Holy Spirit to go into all the world, we are witnesses to the power of Jesus Christ and participants with God in the building of His Church. Through worship, evangelism, compassion, and Christian higher education, we equip people to become more like Jesus.

THESE ARE THE ESSENTIAL BELIEFS THAT WE HOLD TO BE TRUE:​

• We believe in one God—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
• We believe in Jesus Christ, who being one with the Father, became like us to bring about our salvation.
• We believe that the Bible is the word of God and that it contains all truth necessary for faith and Christian living.
• We believe that man is born with a fallen nature and that we need God’s forgiveness for our sin.
• We believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins and rose again, and that by believing in Him, anyone can be forgiven and restored to a right relationship with God.
• We believe that when we are forgiven, the old record of sin is wiped clean, and we are born again, becoming part of the family of God.
• We believe that God calls us to be entirely sanctified, and that through the power of the Holy Spirit, we can live victorious lives of freedom with hearts fully surrendered to Him.
• We believe that the Holy Spirit bears witness to the new birth, and also to the entire sanctification of believers.
• We believe that those who have placed their faith in Jesus will have an eternal home with Him in heaven, and that those who reject Him will be hopelessly and eternally lost.
• We believe that Jesus will return, the dead will rise, and the final judgment will take place.

 

[GDL]

Because I must not know how to communicate. Here's a list of beliefs of Church of the Nazrene. However, it's a mega church and it seems to be geared towards entertainment and generic sermons. It doesn't tell people what holiness is. The following isn't something I've heard there. I'm not now and have never believed that Christians are "entirely sanctified" as in being completely formed to the image of Christ. But this denomination used to be very conservative with more rules than Wesleyans. I'm confused about the changes.

I'm not sure what you mean by your first sentence. This post certainly seems clear. I haven't gone back in this thread to pick up any previous posts you may have made.

Publishing a faith statement is not unusual, which I'm sure you know. False advertisement is also not unusual, especially for an organization that assumes a business model for growth and success. Entertainment and [brief] generic sermons sound like a business model as does mega church. I'm going by your statements and do not know of this church.

On the surface I have no problem with their sanctification perspective per 1 Thes 5:23-24 and others. I have more of a problem with congregations that are not pursuing this and stressing that our Faith has goals for God's Children. I may also have more of a problem with a business that states this purpose but uses it to get people in the door just to entertain them and keep them in infancy or unbelief.

We believe that the Holy Spirit seeks to do in us a second work of grace

This statement concerns me. God's grace is involved from beginning to end of our Salvation. There's no first and second involved. I don't see any second work which some soteriological systems may even say are optional or only for a few. That's like saying a perfect Father is satisfied with having wayward children. Our first-born brother is the example of what our Father wills and will have to whatever degree He wills it. There's a reason we're commanded to be Holy & Perfect as is our Father & grow according to His Righteousness that we were birthed into. Obviously, all this terminology needs to be according to His Word.

We believe that God calls us to be entirely sanctified

Agreed as long as I agree with what they mean by this.

We believe that the Holy Spirit bears witness to the new birth, and also to the entire sanctification of believers

Same comment.