is it OK to run a "home group" this way?

[OldAbramBrown]

At home group it is almost all one of couples (either husband or wife attends), plus me, plus a couple older than me.

I've not been offered membership yet which is either because I don't understand the web page wording that I am supposed to send an E-mail assenting to and don't understand discipline (which they don't want to explain), or because I live outside their usual catchment area (someone friendly gives me lifts to the group I'm mentioning as that's not reachable by bus).

The usual host is very, very quiet indeed.

The usual leader is the elderly married man who is deaf. He sits a long way in front of me and to the right. His wife sits some way to the left of me. She asks lots of questions.

Every time I answer I get told by her husband that I am off topic. Personally I think she should be told not to ask questions. Also that they have got to sit next to each other from now on.

The group material is usually a questionnaire on Sunday's reading and sermon, which i find it difficult to follow because i think it leads them to not think out meanings of Scriptures.

For the last few months there have not been any more questionnaires. Also it gets cancelled most weeks. Often I was feeling unwell and on balance didn't want to bother if I am likely to be told I am speaking out of turn.

Shall I ask if there is a different group reachable by bus, or not bother with groups?

At a lovely lunch someone hosted for newcomers, that I went to, there was no mention of membership.

A few years ago, when we had the minister with us, there were always so many takers for those lunches I was twice among those who couldn't be accommodated. The recently arrived assistant is titled assistant pastor and we are hoping for a pastor (or will he be called minister?) after which the assistant will return to his native region. Both he and the old Minister were / are very good and nice men.

The sermons from the minister and assistant were / are good but those from elders, not. The theology of that church is good enough in parts, as long as they are alert enough to care about meanings. I have never signed any document at a church in all my life.

They do seem poor at organising, overall. It's a very good thing I came across them.

There may be a roughly suitable church nearer my home but there is always a long period when they wonder where you have come from and what you are doing there, isn't there?

 

[Strong in Him]

At home group it is almost all one of couples (either husband or wife attends), plus me, plus a couple older than me.

I've not been offered membership yet which is either because I don't understand the web page wording that I am supposed to send an E-mail assenting to and don't understand discipline (which they don't want to explain), or because I live outside their usual catchment area (someone friendly gives me lifts to the group I'm mentioning as that's not reachable by bus).

The usual host is very, very quiet indeed.

The usual leader is the elderly married man who is deaf. He sits a long way in front of me and to the right. His wife sits some way to the left of me. She asks lots of questions.

Every time I answer I get told by her husband that I am off topic. Personally I think she should be told not to ask questions. Also that they have got to sit next to each other from now on.

The group material is usually a questionnaire on Sunday's reading and sermon, which i find it difficult to follow because i think it leads them to not think out meanings of Scriptures.

For the last few months there have not been any more questionnaires. Also it gets cancelled most weeks. Often I was feeling unwell and on balance didn't want to bother if I am likely to be told I am speaking out of turn.

Shall I ask if there is a different group reachable by bus, or not bother with groups?

So, you're not a member of this group either because you don't understand something, which they won't explain, or because you are deemed to live too far away to join.
You find it difficult to follow the study.
Almost every time you try to contribute to the group you are told you are off topic.
It is implied that you think the leader asks too many questions.
The group is often cancelled, maybe without much notice.
When you were feeling unwell recently you felt it was not worth making the effort to go, since you get silenced anyway.
What do you want to do?

Are there any good things about the group?
When you were unwell and stayed away, or if you miss a week for any other reason, does anyone contact you to see if you are ok?
If you were going through a difficult time and went to the group, would you feel able to confide in anyone and ask for prayer - without it being gossiped all over the church?

At a lovely lunch someone hosted for newcomers, that I went to, there was no mention of membership.

No mention to anyone, or no mention to you specifically? They may have been trying to keep it low key and allow newcomers to make up their own minds, rather than go straight in with the membership forms.
Would you want to commit yourself to a group you have concerns about?

A few years ago, when we had the minister with us, there were always so many takers for those lunches I was twice among those who couldn't be accommodated. The recently arrived assistant is titled assistant pastor and we are hoping for a pastor (or will he be called minister?) after which the assistant will return to his native region. Both he and the old Minister were / are very good and nice men.

The sermons from the minister and assistant were / are good but those from elders, not. The theology of that church is good enough in parts, as long as they are alert enough to care about meanings. I have never signed any document at a church in all my life.

They do seem poor at organising, overall. It's a very good thing I came across them.

So it seems to be hit and miss as to whether or not you get a good sermon and sound teaching, and they are not well organised?
Why do you say it is a very good thing that you came across them?

There may be a roughly suitable church nearer my home but there is always a long period when they wonder where you have come from and what you are doing there, isn't there?

To be honest I wouldn't have thought it was anyone else's business "where you came from and what you are doing there".
Surely they would be glad that you had decided to join their fellowship and that you wanted to worship God?

 

[OldAbramBrown]

...

Are there any good things about the group?
When you were unwell and stayed away, or if you miss a week for any other reason, does anyone contact you to see if you are ok? 1
If you were going through a difficult time and went to the group, would you feel able to confide in anyone and ask for prayer - without it being gossiped all over the church? 2

No mention to anyone, or no mention to you specifically? They may have been trying to keep it low key and allow newcomers to make up their own minds, rather than go straight in with the membership forms. 3
Would you want to commit yourself to a group you have concerns about? 4


So it seems to be hit and miss as to whether or not you get a good sermon and sound teaching, and they are not well organised?
Why do you say it is a very good thing that you came across them? 5

To be honest I wouldn't have thought it was anyone else's business "where you came from and what you are doing there".
Surely they would be glad that you had decided to join their fellowship and that you wanted to worship God? 6

1 Most times not, or else in an unintelligent way. They are nice to people who have cancer (as they indeed should be)
2 I think they don't believe in prayer. I also think they don't hold intelligent conversations amongst themselves about anything.
3 No. I saw what little was going on throughout.
4 I've done so verbally, because I'm a bold explorer and a great survivor. Doing so by signing something is suddenly very prevalent and there ought to be freer and franker discussion first. I just get referred to something incomprehensible about Heidelberg. I don't understand what "discipline" is: and I don't intend to volunteer anything except spontaneously my person, and sometimes what's on my mind in context. I think they think minds are a luxury or evil (false puritanism).
5 I hadn't had a church for a while (a string of previous ones were frightening). The old minister (who decided not to stay) was decent, as is the assistant (who is in a hurry not to stay).
A couple is kind in giving lifts and hospitable in lunch invites, but very unintelligent, bordering on devious, in niceness (they are immigrants, he is an elder, and he subtly puts down his boys; he admitted to me his elderly mother has always been horrible; I met the henpecked father once).
I've just firmed up in my mind, our ministers are nervous of the elders: the elders are ignorant, superior and insecure.
A year ago the treasurer seemed to be projecting his budget from red areas on a chart. This year, he is not scheduled to make a statement.
6 The pool of semi-sane churches is rapidly shrinking. One near me has the same "theology" as the one I've described, and no home groups. They probably have a lesser turnover of unpredictable preachers. Their music is nice and quiet.

I fear for those boys. But they aren't mine. I am loath to abandon people as I have been abandoned. Conclusion: attend no. 6 with caution. It's a shame nearly all service times clash. I just don't think any church attenders or regulars want to have any dealings with people who don't readily boast a narrow selection of past credentials.

 

[Strong in Him]

1 Most times not, or else in an unintelligent way. They are nice to people who have cancer (as they indeed should be)
2 I think they don't believe in prayer. I also think they don't hold intelligent conversations amongst themselves about anything.
3 No. I saw what little was going on throughout.
4 I've done so verbally, because I'm a bold explorer and a great survivor. Doing so by signing something is suddenly very prevalent and there ought to be freer and franker discussion first. I just get referred to something incomprehensible about Heidelberg. I don't understand what "discipline" is: and I don't intend to volunteer anything except spontaneously my person, and sometimes what's on my mind in context. I think they think minds are a luxury or evil (false puritanism).
5 I hadn't had a church for a while (a string of previous ones were frightening). The old minister (who decided not to stay) was decent, as is the assistant (who is in a hurry not to stay).
A couple is kind in giving lifts and hospitable in lunch invites, but very unintelligent, bordering on devious, in niceness (they are immigrants, he is an elder, and he subtly puts down his boys; he admitted to me his elderly mother has always been horrible; I met the henpecked father once).
I've just firmed up in my mind, our ministers are nervous of the elders: the elders are ignorant, superior and insecure.
A year ago the treasurer seemed to be projecting his budget from red areas on a chart. This year, he is not scheduled to make a statement.
6 The pool of semi-sane churches is rapidly shrinking. One near me has the same "theology" as the one I've described, and no home groups. They probably have a lesser turnover of unpredictable preachers. Their music is nice and quiet.

I fear for those boys. But they aren't mine. I am loath to abandon people as I have been abandoned. Conclusion: attend no. 6 with caution. It's a shame nearly all service times clash. I just don't think any church attenders or regulars want to have any dealings with people who don't readily boast a narrow selection of past credentials.

Sounds like a nightmare; praying for you.

I'm sorry that you've been abandoned in the past. You sound very caring and loyal to not want to treat others in that way.
From what you've written, though, it sounds as though they are the ones doing that to you - cancelling home group meetings, not letting you speak while you're there and not helping you when you find things difficult to follow, or understand. It sounds as though church leadership has almost been passed to the elders, who don't give good sermons, and therefore teaching, and are superior and insecure. And they don't believe in prayer! (Or is that just the home group?)
Are they part of a denomination? Are the elders accountable to anyone? If they get into financial difficulty would another church help them out, or close them down?
I'd have headed for the hills by now.

Just 2 things:
i) Christians ARE the church. It's not compulsory to GO to church to meet other believers/worship God. Good teaching is available on line and there are many good Christian books out there; testimonies, commentaries, books on Christian living etc.
ii) If you were to leave you could still pray for them. That's not abandoning them; that's bringing all your concerns about them to the throne of God himself. The church will survive if you leave them - they'll be in big trouble if God ever does the same.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

Sounds like ... the same.

they are independents (as is the one nearer me). Denominations are worse or as bad, these days. Independents and denominations, it's same old newfangled, same old newfangled.

Praying for church: that is a "novel" notion in this Graham-Pilavachi-Zacharias era! I feel like I've invented a new religion, or am agnostic, rather than Christian.

cancelling: perhaps they have too high a threshold for a quorum and not enough vision for alternative venues.

Overall, an unwillingness to think about anything including meanings of Scriptures. Indeed that was the same problem in my four or five preceeding churches.

Mind is an evil luxury according to misplaced puritanism.

The assistant, like the old minister isn't allowed to say, but I have inferred he like him is itching to get away.

On the other hand perhaps he backed by my prayers will tip the balance in the spirits of the whole congregation and - crucially - the elders.

I am a strong intuitive (and I learned inferring for my survival) and religion of that kind rejects intuition (as well as inference) categorically.

Tales are told of not two - but one old lady on some remote island that swayed everybody in the end.

There is also the strange scenario of apparent duty to only mix where one agrees with "theology" (or its substitute). How to fall in with it and evade it at the same time.