Is it Ever OK to Lie? Is It a Question Involving Priorities?

[newton3005]

Perhaps it can be a matter of priorities depending on the circumstances. What can those circumstances be, if so?

The Old Testament has a lot to say about lies and fabrications, but in considering that it has God’s Commandment concerning lying, that Commandment may not be absolute under certain circumstances. For example, Exodus 20:16 says “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.” It doesn’t say you shall not bear false witness against anyone, nor does it leave it at ‘You shall not bear false witness.’ Does that mean it’s OK to lie to anyone else?

Who is your neighbor? Jesus implies in the Parable of the Good Samaritan, in Luke 10:29-37 that your neighbor is someone you can help, regardless of where the neighbor and you are. Does that mean it is OK to lie to people that you are not in a position to help? Proverbs 12:22 says, “Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight.” But are lying lips only an abomination if you lie to your neighbor?

At first glance it seems you should be absolutely sure that the person you bear false witness about is not someone that needs your help. Well, it seems that if we were free to lie about others, it would completely destroy our system of justice. Does God intend that such a system be set up when you consider Romans 13:1? If God doesn’t lie, He wouldn’t approve of a government set up in his name, for justice or anything else, that is based on lies. Looked at from another angle, under God a government is in place to help people. If so, the people it helps are neighbors who should not be lied to.

Let’s look at priorities. Ordinarily, considering that the second great commandment of Jesus is to love your neighbor as you would yourself, you wouldn’t first expect your neighbor to harm you to the point where lying is the only way you can save the life of yours or your loved ones. Of course it’s always possible that a next-door neighbor of yours could go berserk because of things beyond his control, and he shows up at your door with a shotgun, asking you if you’ll give him all your money, say, after threatening you he’ll shoot you if you don’t. Maybe you’ll say that all your money is in the bank. He might say, ‘Let’s go to the bank,’ and you figure that you’ll have a better chance of his not harming you if he goes with you to the bank, who knows?

Or maybe in another situation you determine it’s necessary to lie to government officials in order to get money to feed your family. Well, does not 1 Timothy 5:8 say that if you don’t provide for your household, you’ll be considered a non-believer? Seems there may be some leeway as far as telling certain lies are concerned. Seems that as far as things like your family goes, providing for them might take priority over telling the truth.

What is our ultimate priority? Matthew 6:33 says to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and whatever you need will be added to you. How do you seek the Kingdom of God? By loving Him and your neighbor. How do you love God? You love Him by meeting His Expectations of you. One of his expectations is you have complete faith in Him. How do you love your neighbor? You care about them when necessary. Within this matrix, you consider any lies or truths you need to tell.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Might be worthwhile to first define what you mean, or better, what the Bible means, by lie.

 

[Unqualified]

Not lying is an absolute even in the NT. Being truthful is to be developed. Openness is something to base a relationship on. It’s more important to do, to be, what you don’t have to lie about. You don’t have to be brutally honest, but honesty is the best policy….

 

[Clare73]

Perhaps it can be a matter of priorities depending on the circumstances. What can those circumstances be, if so?

The Old Testament has a lot to say about lies and fabrications, but in considering that it has God’s Commandment concerning lying, that Commandment may not be absolute under certain circumstances. For example, Exodus 20:16 says “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.” It doesn’t say you shall not bear false witness against anyone, nor does it leave it at ‘You shall not bear false witness.’ Does that mean it’s OK to lie to anyone else?

Who is your neighbor? Jesus implies in the Parable of the Good Samaritan, in Luke 10:29-37 that your neighbor is someone you can help, regardless of where the neighbor and you are. Does that mean it is OK to lie to people that you are not in a position to help? Proverbs 12:22 says, “Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight.” But are lying lips only an abomination if you lie to your neighbor?

At first glance it seems you should be absolutely sure that the person you bear false witness about is not someone that needs your help. Well, it seems that if we were free to lie about others, it would completely destroy our system of justice. Does God intend that such a system be set up when you consider Romans 13:1? If God doesn’t lie, He wouldn’t approve of a government set up in his name, for justice or anything else, that is based on lies. Looked at from another angle, under God a government is in place to help people. If so, the people it helps are neighbors who should not be lied to.

Let’s look at priorities. Ordinarily, considering that the second great commandment of Jesus is to love your neighbor as you would yourself, you wouldn’t first expect your neighbor to harm you to the point where lying is the only way you can save the life of yours or your loved ones. Of course it’s always possible that a next-door neighbor of yours could go berserk because of things beyond his control, and he shows up at your door with a shotgun, asking you if you’ll give him all your money, say, after threatening you he’ll shoot you if you don’t. Maybe you’ll say that all your money is in the bank. He might say, ‘Let’s go to the bank,’ and you figure that you’ll have a better chance of his not harming you if he goes with you to the bank, who knows?

Or maybe in another situation you determine it’s necessary to lie to government officials in order to get money to feed your family. Well, does not 1 Timothy 5:8 say that if you don’t provide for your household, you’ll be considered a non-believer? Seems there may be some leeway as far as telling certain lies are concerned. Seems that as far as things like your family goes, providing for them might take priority over telling the truth.

What is our ultimate priority? Matthew 6:33 says to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and whatever you need will be added to you. How do you seek the Kingdom of God? By loving Him and your neighbor. How do you love God? You love Him by meeting His Expectations of you. One of his expectations is you have complete faith in Him. How do you love your neighbor? You care about them when necessary. Within this matrix, you consider any lies or truths you need to tell.

The highest moral law, which trumps all moral law, including lying, is the preservation of innocent human life.
It is not immoral to lie to save innocent human life.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

The highest moral law, which trumps all moral law, including lying, is the preservation of innocent human life.
It is not immoral to lie to save innocent human life.

Agreed in principle. What about usage of the lesser-of-two-evils in solving ethical dilemmas?

In a fallen world, there might be no right-correct-moral-ethical choice in any matter. Using the lesser-of two evils, it is always wrong to lie to save innocent life but circumstances dictate it would be worse not to lie.

From this the Christian acknowledges the sinful world God has placed us into... complete with repentance on our part and His blood for forgiveness on His part.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Might be worthwhile to first define what you mean, or better, what the Bible means, by lie.

All lying falls broadly under the Eight Commandment....Bearing false witness against your neighbor.

 

[RDKirk]

The highest moral law, which trumps all moral law, including lying, is the preservation of innocent human life.
It is not immoral to lie to save innocent human life.

I will agree with you on this one.

What we see in scripture is that God is a warrior, and He does practice tactical deception in combat.

A soldier is expected to deceive the enemy but be completely truthful with his commander and comrades.

 

[RDKirk]

All lying falls broadly under the Eight Commandment....Bearing false witness against your neighbor.

The Hebrew midwives who concealed the births of Hebrew baby boys were explicitly praised by God for their deceit of the Pharoah.

God gave Moses the actual words of deception to use with Pharoah.

Rahab was praised for her deceit of the Jericho guards.

Put plainly, Jesus deceived His own brothers about His intention to go Jerusalem, and deceived the people watching for Him by going in disguise.

God is a warrior, and He does practice tactical deception in combat.

 

[Clare73]

Agreed in principle. What about usage of the lesser-of-two-evils in solving ethical dilemmas?

The OT record is pretty clear about Gods view of the moral nature of preserving innocent human life.
God is not in the slippery-slope business of a "lesser-of-two-evils" morality, with fallen man making the call.
He is in the business of separating morality and immorality, obedience and sin.
God's view couldn't be any clearer in the OT record regarding preservation of innocent human life where possible.
That is the basis for such being the first moral law trumping all other moral laws.

In a fallen world, there might be no right-correct-moral-ethical choice in any matter.

But that is never the case when God's highest moral of preserving innocent human life is at stake.

Using the lesser-of two evils, it is always wrong to lie to save innocent life but circumstances dictate it would be worse not to lie.

From this the Christian acknowledges the sinful world God has placed us into... complete with repentance on our part and His blood for forgiveness on His part.

However, the Biblical record amply testifies to preservation of innocent human life as God's highest moral, and not to it being the lesser of two evils.

 

[pgp_protector]

Wife has Alzheimer's & Dementia. Still going to lie to her when I need to so I can protect her.

 

[Tom8907]

I can see some circumstances like Germans who hid Jews from the Nazis in WW2 and claimed to the authorities that noone else was in their house or even alot more simple ones like saying to your elderly Nan you like her hat if she asks (when you don't), etc.

But generally, no.

 

[Clare73]

Wife has Alzheimer's & Dementia. Still going to lie to her when I need to so I can protect her.

Yep. . .preservation of innocent human life.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

However, the Biblical record amply testifies to preservation of innocent human life as God's highest moral, and not to it being the lesser of two evils.

Many a debate about ethical systems gets illustrated by the Corrie Ten Boom conundrum posed as Nazis knocking on your door to enquire whether you are hiding innocent Jews in your home. You can either tell the truth and sacrifice the lives of your refugees, or you can lie and, assuming you have the world’s most gullible Nazi at your door, spare the lives of those you have committed to protect. Then there is a third alternative. Say nothing. This probably will get you killed.

Saying nothing is probably least Biblical if death were on the line... in certain circumstances especially if one were a parent, is a sin. "But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." I Tim. 5:8. The same would be for a Samson like suicide. Christian parents are to protect their own lives for the sake of their families.

Martin Luther counseled Phillip Melancthon on some very difficult issues surrounding changing the Mass purging it from late Medieval heresies. When Luther couldn't give an answer he wrote in his letter, "Sin Boldly" in your decisions then go to the "cross boldly."

You said, it is not immoral to lie to preserve human life. Would you apply that line of reasoning to the other commandments? Is it immoral to murder in order to preserve human life? Is it immoral to commit adultery to preserve human life? Is it immoral steal in order to preserve human life?

Lying to preserve "innocent human life as God's highest moral calling"...is still lying and insisting it is not, is considered a slippery slope of fallen man "making the call" via naked human reasoning.

Christians will always disagree with resolving difficult ethical dilemmas. I have made up my mind years ago on this subject....use repentance and the blood of Christ as a way to resolve the dilemma. You have chosen another another way....we just disagree.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The highest moral law, which trumps all moral law, including lying, is the preservation of innocent human life.
It is not immoral to lie to save innocent human life.

It might be interesting to define "lie" according the meaning in the commandment.

Even to the degree that the Greek differs in implications and scope from the Hebrew, the fact that all liars will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, I think, should be seen the same way that homosexuals will not. A homosexual, unlike what the unGodly teach, is not of oneself a person with certain inclinations, but one who engages in homosexual practices. A liar is not one who uses misleading language for God's sake, but one who lives by way of lying... —That is said poorly, but I hope the reader gets the point.

Modern Christendom has strayed a long, long way from what God said, and is making their own rules and meanings, requiring of the attendants what they themselves do not do.

 

[Mark Quayle]

All lying falls broadly under the Eight Commandment....Bearing false witness against your neighbor.

I agree with those words, but what do you mean by "falls broadly"?

Rumor, libel, false accusation, gossip? Where does the word "lie" as modern Christians take it to mean, apply? And remember, whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Rumor, libel, false accusation, gossip?

Yeap all of those. Plus combining stealing with lying you get fraud and other financial crimes through deceit. Lying also goes well with adultery....as Fani Willis and Nathan Wade will testify to.

 

[Clare73]

Many a debate about ethical systems gets illustrated by the Corrie Ten Boom conundrum posed as Nazis knocking on your door to enquire whether you are hiding innocent Jews in your home. You can either tell the truth and sacrifice the lives of your refugees, or you can lie and, assuming you have the world’s most gullible Nazi at your door, spare the lives of those you have committed to protect. Then there is a third alternative. Say nothing. This probably will get you killed.

Saying nothing is probably least Biblical if death were on the line... in certain circumstances especially if one were a parent, is a sin. "But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." I Tim. 5:8. The same would be for a Samson like suicide. Christian parents are to protect their own lives for the sake of their families.

Martin Luther counseled Phillip Melancthon on some very difficult issues surrounding changing the Mass purging it from late Medieval heresies. When Luther couldn't give an answer he wrote in his letter, "Sin Boldly" in your decisions then go to the "cross boldly."

You said, it is not immoral to lie to preserve human life. Would you apply that line of reasoning to the other commandments? Is it immoral to murder in order to preserve human life? Is it immoral to commit adultery to preserve human life? Is it immoral steal in order to preserve human life?

Lying to preserve "innocent human life as God's highest moral calling"...is still lying and insisting it is not, is considered a slippery slope of fallen man "making the call" via naked human reasoning.

Christians will always disagree with resolving difficult ethical dilemmas. I have made up my mind years ago on this subject....use repentance and the blood of Christ as a way to resolve the dilemma. You have chosen another another way....we just disagree.

I see the Biblical record as clear on the matter.

 

[Clare73]

It might be interesting to define "lie" according the meaning in the commandment.

Even to the degree that the Greek differs in implications and scope from the Hebrew, the fact that all liars will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, I think, should be seen the same way that homosexuals will not. A homosexual, unlike what the unGodly teach, is not of oneself a person with certain inclinations, but one who engages in homosexual practices. A liar is not one who uses misleading language for God's sake, but one who lives by way of lying... —That is said poorly, but I hope the reader gets the point.

Modern Christendom has strayed a long, long way from what God said, and is making their own rules and meanings, requiring of the attendants what they themselves do not do.

Good point, not all untruth makes one a guilty liar.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

I see the Biblical record as clear on the matter.

One's person clarity is a anothers murkiness. Sounds to me like the Divine Wink Theory....you get an exemption from God for transgressing the Eighth Commandment in protecting innocent human life.

 

[Clare73]

One's person clarity is a anothers murkiness. Sounds to me like the Divine Wink Theory....you get an exemption from God for transgressing the Eighth Commandment in protecting innocent human life.

Sorry you feel that way about it. . .I see God, who does not support sin, as supporting "lying" in the Biblical testimony of his response to its being done.

Your choice is God supports sin, or lying to preserve innocent human life is not sin.
The latter does not defy the character of God.