Is it better to raise children without religion?

[Bradskii]

But you don't like Christ. You like this liberal image of him as a pacifist who did nothing controversial but not as one who radically called people to God or eqauted himself with the divine, even to the point of offense and the use of force.

I'll ask you NOT to decide who I use as examples of what it means to live a moral life. As regards using Christians themselves, I can give you a very long list indeed of those whom I would reject outright as being anywhere near examples of how to live that moral life. Those whom I am certain Jesus himself would reject.

To change every aspect of their lives to live in conformity with what God expects. Not with what people like yourself want.

To live in conformity with what everyone thinks is their interpretation of what God wants. Apparently everyone who isn't of your denomination has got it wrong. What was the term you used for people who didn't think as you do? Ah yes. The enemy.

 

[partinobodycular]

Far too often I'll spend some time online here and come away depressed and disheartened, and often angry, about what the anonymity of a forum allows people to say.

I too get disheartened sometimes, not so much with what people believe, but with my inability to change that. Do I get depressed and angry though, nah, they're just people being people. It would be like blaming children for acting like children. They are what they are, and I have patience enough to accept that. Plus I understand that the nature of these forums lends itself to those who are more fervent in their beliefs, and if I were to spend more time in the "Christians Only" segments then I might come away with a brighter outlook. Unfortunately it's hard to spend time on forums where one is prohibited from posting even the most uplifting of responses.

I do miss people like Wesrock from CA however... but you're here to brighten my day, so there's always that. Plus in trying to understand and reach others I often find that I gain far more insight than I could ever have hoped to give. I'm just hoping that someday others will look back and realize the same.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I'll ask you NOT to decide who I use as examples of what it means to live a moral life. As regards using Christians themselves, I can give you a very long list indeed of those whom I would reject outright as being anywhere near examples of how to live that moral life. Those whom I am certain Jesus himself would reject.

To live in conformity with what everyone thinks is their interpretation of what God wants. Apparently everyone who isn't of your denomination has got it wrong. What was the term you used for people who didn't think as you do? Ah yes. The enemy.

I always find it interesting when people think they know the mind of my Lord perfectly and they he would always agree with them in their moral pronouncements.

You also can't explain to me why it's wrong to recognize that there are enemies and friends. Do you think that will shame me into feeling bad or something?

 

[Bradskii]

I always find it interesting when people think they know the mind of my Lord perfectly and they he would always agree with them in their moral pronouncements.

I can only go by what is written. He certainly wouldn't agree with everything I say. But there is no way in heaven or in earth that anyone could convince me that Jesus would simply shrug His shoulders and not condemn so much of what I see written in this forum. There are way too many Old Testament views being put forward. Maybe by people who are blissfully ignorant of the new covenant.

 

[Bradskii]

You also can't explain to me why it's wrong to recognize that there are enemies and friends. Do you think that will shame me into feeling bad or something?

You've stated that anyone not of the same mind as you is therefore an enemy. That is the term you have used. And friends are only those who agree with you. And you want me to explain why that is wrong?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

You've stated that anyone not of the same mind as you is therefore an enemy. That is the term you have used. And friends are only those who agree with you. And you want me to explain why that is wrong?

Where did I state that? All I stated is that there are enemies and there are friends. That Christianity and Christ does not teach us to have no enemies but to love our enemies.

Please explain to me why it is wrong to have enemies as a Christian

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I can only go by what is written. He certainly wouldn't agree with everything I say. But there is no way in heaven or in earth that anyone could convince me that Jesus would simply shrug His shoulders and not condemn so much of what I see written in this forum. There are way too many Old Testament views being put forward. Maybe by people who are blissfully ignorant of the new covenant.

What would Jesus condemn in what I've said? Since you know the mind of my Lord please explain it to me.

 

[Bradskii]

Where did I state that?

I asked this:

So other Christians, whose views are not aligned with yours, are also your enemy.

You agreed with it.

 

[Bradskii]

What would Jesus condemn in what I've said?

I haven't seen anything you've said that I think he would condemn. But I've seen plenty that He would. And so have you.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I haven't seen anything you've said that I think he would condemn. But I've seen plenty that He would. And so have you.

Like what?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I asked this:

You agreed with it.

I agreed that there are Christians who are my enemy but not all Christians are necessarily my enemy because we dissagree. Do you think all Christians are aligned or something?

Do you think the friend enemy distinction can be escaped?

 

[Bradskii]

I agreed that there are Christians who are my enemy but not all Christians are necessarily my enemy because we dissagree.

Then you need greater clarity in what you post.

 

[Bradskii]

Like what?

Don't be so naive.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Then you need greater clarity in what you post.

Why not ask me to clarify something then? Instead of jumping to conclusions? You seem rather offended at the idea of Christians looking at the world this way. Why?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Don't be so naive.

No seriously. Point out an example of something a Christian has said that Jesus would radically disagree with. You know the mind of my Lord, so enlighten me.

 

[Bradskii]

Why not ask me to clarify something then?

I respond to what you write. If you literally say one thing and I mention it, you then ask where you said it. If I show you then you deny it was what you meant. And then you walk it back and say something different.

Play time is over. Thanks for your input.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I respond to what you write. If you literally say one thing and I mention it, you then ask where you said it. If I show you then you deny it was what you meant. And then you walk it back and say something different.

Play time is over. Thanks for your input.

If you desire clarification you should ask for clarification. I never said anyone who merely dissagrees with me is my enemy. I clarified there are degrees. If you can't accept that then that's a you problem.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I do.

But of course that needs clarification, because there's a clear distinction between what the word 'friend' means and what the word 'enemy' means. It's also apparent that some people, such as yourself, classify some people as one, and some people as the other. And then there's the case in which a recovering alcoholic may classify liquor as their 'enemy'. Or you may classify 'sin' as your enemy. Or Satan as your enemy.

But sticking strictly to people... no one is my enemy... NO ONE. Not the rapist, not the murderer, not the pedophile, not the transvestite, not the person twisting the word of God, and not you.

Simply to illustrate that I mean what I say, my father wasn't a nice man. He was an alcoholic. From the time that I was thirteen until I was eighteen my mother, my sister, and I were constantly on the run, because my mother feared that if he found us, he'd kill us. Hence I never graduated from high school. I'm a ninth grade drop out.

But at the age of 67 my father became disabled, and who took care of him until he went into a nursing home thirteen years later? I did.

If you have enemies, it's because you choose to have enemies. You have walked in only one person's shoes... your own. And yet you feel that you're wise enough, and moral enough to judge someone as your enemy simply because they disagree with you.

Now I'm sure that you can find scripture after scripture that says that I'm wrong, but I don't care what you think the bible says, it doesn't matter one whit to me. So go ahead, put me on your list of enemies, I'm sure I won't be alone. But always remember, you'll never be on mine.

FYI: I plan on deleting this post rather quickly. It's not something that I wish to turn into a long discussion.

I bet you will delete this post. I don't know if you're an enemy or not but I do consider your position hopelessly naive. In life there will always be people who oppose you and operate against your interests. These are enemies whether you recognize them as such. I will note, that since you have no enemy you cannot love your enemy because you regard everyone as either neutral or your friend.

 

[o_mlly]

Oh my gosh, I can't believe that you really want to go there, because what I've gleaned about 'Christian thinking' from my 30+ years of posting on Christian forums isn't very flattering to its namesake.

I can only concur with what @partinobodycular said above. ...

Judging by the "Likes" given to these two posts, the self-acclaimed non-believers all agree that they have found little to justify continuing with Christian forums. Yet, they do continue, so there's hope for them.

I can give you a very long list indeed of those whom I would reject outright as being anywhere near examples of how to live that moral life. Those whom I am certain Jesus himself would reject.

Your post discloses a fundamental ignorance of Jesus teachings. The most dangerous person is one who thinks he knows but knows not.

I too get disheartened sometimes, not so much with what people believe, but with my inability to change that.

Perhaps you might consider that what you have tried to offer is simply false and opposed to the Truth.

... if I were to spend more time in the "Christians Only" segments then I might come away with a brighter outlook. Unfortunately it's hard to spend time on forums where one is prohibited from posting even the most uplifting of responses.

Why do you think there are "Christians Only" sections?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Judging by the "Likes" given to these two posts, the self-acclaimed non-believers all agree that they have found little to justify continuing with Christian forums. Yet, they do continue, so there's hope for them.

Three votes, including 1 from someone (yo!) with little to no participation? That's quite the resounding message we're sending. <eyeroll>

If by "hope" you mean becoming christians? Nope, not going to happen. Did that for two decades, not going back.

As for raising children religious or secular, don't worry, even raising them religious isn't enough to keep us, especially when you are in an corrupt denomination.

Now, do you want to get back to discussing the subject of the thread, or stick with this discussion of the other posters?