Is Calvinism or Arminianism Biblical?

[Daniels]

Is Calvinism or Arminianism Biblical?
One of the most perplexing problems for the teacher of God's Word is to explain the relationship between the doctrine of election and the doctrine of salvation by grace. These two doctrines are widely debated by conservative Christians who divide themselves into to opposing camps, the "Calvinists" and the "Arminians." To understand the problem let us look at the various positions held, the terms used, a brief history of the matter, and then present a biblical solution that correctly addresses the issue and that avoids the unbiblical extremes of the Calvinists and the Arminians.

Calvinism
John Calvin, the Swiss reformer (1509-1564) a theologian, drafted this system in Soteriology (study of salvation) that bears his name. The term "Calvinism" refers to doctrines and practices that stemmed from the works of John Calvin. The tenants of modern Calvinism are based on the works of Calvin that have been expanded by his followers. These beliefs became the distinguishing characteristic of the Reformed churches and some Baptists. Calvinism is often called the "Doctrine of Grace" which is a contradiction, because Calvinism denies God's grace to most of mankind.

Simply stated, this view claims that God predestined or elected some to be saved and others to be lost. Those elected to salvation are decreed by God to receive salvation and cannot "resist God's grace." However, those that God elected to be lost are born condemned eternally to the Lake of Fie and He will not allow them be saved.

http://www.bible-truth.org/election.htm

 

[Daniels]

I from India , my mother tongue is not english, but learning here in CF a lot of spiritual truths and benefited.

 

[arunma]

Daniel, it seems to me that Calvinism is the inescapable conclusion of reading the Scriptures. I would suggest reading Romans 9:11, in which it is said that God chose Jacob over Esau before either was born, so that they could do nothing either good or bad. God's purposes of election and predestination are made clear by this simple statement. There are very many Scriptures which testify to the truth of Calvinistic doctrine, but to me this one stands out.

I from India , my mother tongue is not english, but learning here in CF a lot of spiritual truths and benefited.

Very interesting. I am also Indian, actually. Anyway, I'm glad we can help.

 

[Daniels]

Thank you.

 

[HamletsChoice]

Is Calvinism or Arminianism Biblical?

Calvinism

 

[Zacharias]

Arminianism: I willed to be saved.
Calvinism: God willed that I be saved.
Arminianism: My faith got me God's grace.
Calvinism: God's grace got me faith.
Arminianism: I have faith therefore God saved me.
Calvinism: God saved me therefore I have faith.
Arminianism: God called everyone. Some took him up on His offer, other didn't.
Calvinism: God called His sheep. They heard His voice and followed Him.
Arminianism: God's will is only as strong as man's will.
Calvinism: God's will is the will.

 

[Iosias]

John Calvin, the Swiss reformer (1509-1564)

Calvin was French not Swiss.

Calvinism is often called the "Doctrine of Grace" which is a contradiction, because Calvinism denies God's grace to most of mankind.

I would point you to The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, Documented

 

[Strong in Him]

Well the only thing that I know about Arminianism is that they believe that Christ died for everyone, which is definitely Scriptural. This belief is where the "4 alls" of Methodism come from;

All need to be saved.
All may be saved.
All may know themselves to be saved.
All may be saved to the uttermost.

These weren't actually penned by John Wesley, but he taught them.

 

[Strong in Him]

I've just noticed - I probably shouldn't be in this forum. Sorry I thought I was in a different one.

 

[cygnusx1]

Well the only thing that I know about Arminianism is that they believe that Christ died for everyone, which is definitely Scriptural. This belief is where the "4 alls" of Methodism come from;

All need to be saved.
All may be saved.
All may know themselves to be saved.
All may be saved to the uttermost.

These weren't actually penned by John Wesley, but he taught them.

that is because Wesley was an Arminian , and a reactionary one at that.

"All men may be saved" sounds good but is not true !

There are those who scripture speaks of as "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Tim 3:7

if they are NEVER able to come to a knowledge of the truth even though they be ever learning , then the possibility of them being saved is ZERO.

 

[Iosias]

Well the only thing that I know about Arminianism is that they believe that Christ died for everyone, which is definitely Scriptural.

Actually it is wholly unfounded in Scripture and exceptionally blasphemous.

All need to be saved.

True

All may be saved.

False

All may know themselves to be saved.

False

All may be saved to the uttermost.

False

 

[Strong in Him]

Actually it is wholly unfounded in Scripture and exceptionally blasphemous.

I don't know if I should be joining in debates in this forum, but seriously, how come?

Christ died for sinners, (Romans 5:8), all of us have sinned, (Romans 3:23) so he died for us all. There are several Scriptures which say this; John 3:16 - whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life; 2 Corinthians 5:15 -Christ's love compels us because we are convinced that one died for all; 1 Corinthians 15:22 - for as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive; 2 Peter 3:9 - He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish. (And there are no doubt others too, but it's nearly 1a.m and I shouldn't have started this.)

Not everyone will accept God's gift of eternal life - some may never get to hear it, but of those who do, some will put off making a decision, believing they have lots of time, and some will refuse to make that decision or consider Christ's claims. Of the latter, some may later repent and be saved by the Grace of God and through the prayers of others.

 

[Zacharias]

Christ died for sinners, (Romans 5:8), all of us have sinned, (Romans 3:23) so he died for us all. There are several Scriptures which say this; John 3:16 - whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life; 2 Corinthians 5:15 -Christ's love compels us because we are convinced that one died for all; 1 Corinthians 15:22 - for as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive; 2 Peter 3:9 - He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish. (And there are no doubt others too, but it's nearly 1a.m and I shouldn't have started this.)

John 3:16 ...God so loved [agape] the world...
Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved [agape], but Esau have I hated.
God did not unconditionally love everyone. If "world" meant all people, God lied.

Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Obviously this does not mean that all will be going to heaven.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any [tis] should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Tis means: a certain, a certain one, some, some time, a while.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; ) 12 It was said unto her, The elder F35 shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted F36 to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?



I suggest you read Romans 9.

 

[bradfordl]

Good job, Freak. Context, context, context!

 

[Elderone]

I've just noticed - I probably shouldn't be in this forum. Sorry I thought I was in a different one.

You may think it was an accident your being in this forum, it wasn't. God directed you here to become involved in the discussion of this thread, to learn more about what the Bible teaches and why Arminianism is error.

Ask as many questions as you wish, and we will do our best to answer them.

 

[arunma]

John 3:16 ...God so loved [agape] the world...
Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved [agape], but Esau have I hated.
God did not unconditionally love everyone. If "world" meant all people, God lied.

There is further justification for this view. It says,

In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. (St. Luke 2:1)
​

Yet it is clear that not every human in the world was registered, but only those to whom registration applied. I'm not familiar with the Greek words employed, but assuming that English translations are faithful, it would appear that "the world" doesn't refer to everyone.

 

[Strong in Him]

You may think it was an accident your being in this forum, it wasn't. God directed you here to become involved in the discussion of this thread, to learn more about what the Bible teaches and why Arminianism is error.

Ask as many questions as you wish, and we will do our best to answer them.

Thank you for your kindness, but I do not actually believe that it is in error. I have just been admitted as a local preacher in the Methodist church after 4 years training, and would not have made the promises I did if I did not believe that salvation is for all. In fact, I'm not sure that I'd want to preach at all if I believed in a God who could make humans in his own image but then only choose a few of them to be with him in heaven and receive forgiveness and eternal life. That means he would send some to hell because they hadn't accepted Jesus as their Saviour - knowing that they never had a chance to accept Jesus as their Saviour because they hadn't been chosen to do so. He would be condemning them for something they couldn't do. Is that what a loving heavenly father would do? Is it honest and just?

 

[Zacharias]

Is that what a loving heavenly father would do? Is it honest and just?

The Bible shows that God is honest and just. He doesn't lie. And He's sending people to hell for their sins.

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he [God] mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
God has saved His elect. God has damned the non-elect.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved [agape], but Esau have I hated.
God did not unconditionally love everyone. If "world" meant all people, God lied.

 

[Strong in Him]

God did not unconditionally love everyone. If "world" meant all people, God lied.

Well then the Scripture lied when it says that God is love. Is it love to create someone in your image and then condemn them for not being saved, when you know that you've already decided that they won't be saved?

If an earthly father rejected his child when he/she was born, immeditely cutting them out of his will, and letting them do what they wanted because he had disowned them and no longer cared; no doubt there'd be an outcry, and people would quite reasonably ask what was the point of having the child in the first place.

Maybe "the world" in Luke 2 means something different from "the world" of John 3, but we can't really use this as a basis to say that God only chose to save a few of his creation.

 

[Zacharias]

Well then the Scripture lied when it says that God is love. Is it love to create someone in your image and then condemn them for not being saved, when you know that you've already decided that they won't be saved?

If an earthly father rejected his child when he/she was born, immeditely cutting them out of his will, and letting them do what they wanted because he had disowned them and no longer cared; no doubt there'd be an outcry, and people would quite reasonably ask what was the point of having the child in the first place.

Maybe "the world" in Luke 2 means something different from "the world" of John 3, but we can't really use this as a basis to say that God only chose to save a few of his creation.

Both used the greek word "kosmos".