Interfaith Parenting - Catholic vs Evangelical

[Lucky9]

Hi, I'm new here and wanted to find some input on how to handle a situation I find myself in, with my husband (of 18 years). I apologize this is lengthy...

I'm a non-denominational evangelical Christian and my husband is a traditional (SSPX) Roman Catholic. When we got married, he wasn't practicing, I was, so he would go with me to my non-denominational church (usually a Christian Center, or Assembly of God, etc). About 5 years ago, my husband found an SSPX church and started going to that church. We agreed to trade off, and each take them every other week to our church. That was working well.

Then last October, my husband decided to play the patriarchy card (his words) and demanded they all go to his church every Sunday and were not allowed to attend mine at all during this time. He wanted them to take somewhat of a cathecism class to learn about the Catholic church and it's teachings and traditions. The Priests told him, they would sit down with the kids individually, to discuss with them if they wanted to be baptized in the Catholic church or not. They said they want to make sure the children make the decision on their own and that they aren't coerced, etc. I am not really ok with this, as I still think the kids aren't old enough to make that decision yet, and could benefit from both of our faiths, but I'm the woman, and he's the "head of the household" so he's got the say so.

And, I believe my husband is coercing them. He doesn't allow them to attend anything of my church. My kids tell me in order for them to be able to play any video or computer games, dad makes them do the Rosary and say prayers with him. They say he gives them things, gifts, money, etc, if they'll do certain Catholic rituals with him. I'm not against praying, but I just don't think anyone should be bribed or coerced to do it. I know my kids want to please their dad, and he can be very opinionated and domineering, and I fear they will say they'll go to his church solely to make him happy, because they've told me they just pray with him or do things with him sometimes for his church, to shut him up, so he doesn't get mad, etc.

I know our oldest (15) has never had an interest in going to his dads church. Even when we traded weekends, he would constantly bug me not to make him go with dad, or to talk dad out of making him go. He even told my husband that he didn't believe in God, because science explained everything. Which freaked out my husband, but when we sat down and talked to my son, he explained he was just confused, but later told me on the side, that he just didn't want to go to dads church and was hoping dad wouldn't make him go, if he thought he didn't believe. He said he still liked my church, because it had age appropriate lessons and kids his age, etc. And he just wanted to go back to my church. All the kids have said dads church is boring, they speak in Latin, you can't understand what they are saying or what it means and it's long. And my youngest (who is 9) is asking why she can't continue going to both churches, and feels bad she has to make a choice of one over the other. She said the best thing about dads church are the donuts and the banquet hall after the Mass. But the other parts are boring.

To me, the whole point of going to church, is to fellowship, worship and learn about God. And for kids, it's hard enough getting them interested in the topic, let alone, getting the message through. There are no kids classes they go to, at my husbands church. They sit with all the adults in a Latin mass for an hour or so and then meet with one of the parishioners wives to be taught about what being Catholic is. There's nothing at their age level, and when I ask them what they've learned, they can never tell me. At my church, they go into specific age appropriate classes and are taught at that level, while I attend the adult service.

I try to tell my kids, make this decision based on what you want. Be selfish and don't think about me or your father or anything we want. I don't want them coerced, or bribed, or manipulated, or feeling they have to do something to please one of us. I want them to understand where they feel most comfortable and happy when they go, and where they feel the Spirit of God, is where they should decide to go. I know it's hard for a 9 year old to comprehend that, and I still think it's too early for her to make that kind of decision, if not unfair to her. And it wouldn't be so bad, but my husband is telling them, if they choose his church, they can't ever ever go to mine, it will strictly be only his church. Whereas, I told them, if they chose to continue going with me, I'd still allow them to go with their father occasionally, if they wanted.

But my husband is very forthright and hard to discuss anything with re:religion, even when it doesn't involve the kids. He's very set in his beliefs (and so am I), but we can't even have a decent conversation because he makes comments and implies that because I'm non-denominational, I'm a heretic and not a "Catholic", so I will have a harder time getting to Heaven, etc. He hasn't said it directly, but he implies he's better than I am, because he's part of the first, true religion. He calls me a "convenient Christian" if I don't share one of his beliefs or religious traditions he practices. So we can't even have a polite conversation as husband and wife, without him going into a tizzy, unless I agree with his beliefs 100%. And I'm being literal. I don't agree with his beliefs, and I don't believe in the stuff his church teaches, I honestly believe much of it to be unbiblical, to be honest, but I don't dare ever tell him what I truly feel or believe, because I can only imagine how he'd behave. I keep my mouth shut and try to avoid religious conversations. While he talks about being Christ like and more pius, but at the same time, is more judgemental and sanctimonious than anyone I've ever seen. While we both do believe in the basic tenets of Christianity - the Trinity (God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit) and the resurrection, baptism, etc., I just don't understand why we have to force the children to choose which path they want to take, or why we can't just let them take part in both our faiths, until they are old enough to make a decision on their own. And I have no idea how to talk to my husband about this or get him to see this view point.

I worry about the things my kids tell me, about the bribing and manipulating the kids, offering to give them things, money, game time, if they pray or do "Catholic" things with him. That to me, is SO uncool. I don't do that. I just do morning devotionals with them, and talk to them about having a personal relationship with Jesus, as well as correct some of the beliefs they are being taught, that I believe to be unbiblical. But I don't bribe, manipulate or try to coerce them. I just teach them biblical truth.

I'm not sure what to do, if anything. In a few months (or so I was told), they'll be toward the end of their "learning" classes at his church, wherein the Priest will sit them down and discuss joining and being baptized as a Catholic or not. I keep praying my kids will see the truth and their eyes will be open, and that God will help them make their decision. Obviously I prefer they go to my church, but I worry if they choose his, what they'll be taught and how already, they seem to be learning things that make them biased against me. For instance, my 9 yr old daughter, tells me often that she wishes I would be able to go to Heaven, but doesn't think I will because I'm a "Protestant". Now where do you think she gets that idea? It's so messed up.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Ugh. I wish people who want to marry unequally yolked could see this thread. Both branches may believe in God but beyond that problems can occur. Especially when kids are involved.

I would show the verses to your 9 year old about how one is saved. More so that having Jesus in your heart is salvation. Not through workls, which is what alot of catholics are taught (at least from tall the catholic family and friends I know). Again, I may be wrong. But its what most catholics have told me they were taught. My grandmother thinks shes going because she helps out at special needs Olympic events. She gives money to her church...etc. So shes going to heaven she says but we are not because as evangelicals, having Jesus in your heart means nothing.

Your in a really tough spot. This can be damaging to your marriage if your husband is basically pinning you against your own kids on whos really the better christian. I frankly would have no patience if my own spouse, the one who is suppose to support and love me, called me a heretic. I don't believe in divorce but I would probably tell my spouse "Feel free to move out then until I am less of a heretic!".

 

[Mountainmike]

That doesn't help because like many Protestants you promote a screwed up view of what Catholics believe .

As for the OP it might be worth reading such as " Rome sweet home" Hahn, ( or indeed many of the life histories in " reason to believe " Madrid, to see that you are not unique, and how some of these tussles between parents faith played out in the life's of others. In many cases it was painful and took years, as it did for Kimberley Hahn, but ended well.

If it is a consolation I am a Protestant turned evangelical became ultimately catholic, ( because of history and writings of early fathers) - but the point I make is I am also a refugee from a congregation that went back from English to Latin mass liturgy , and ultimately I moved parish because even trained in Latin , I find the Latin version wholly lacking in spiritual connection . It leaves me cold, where the English mass liturgy is wonderful . Wall to wall bible quotes. Perhaps one compromise is ask your husband to at least take them to English liturgy once in a while, so they can understand.

But I also think the OP should study what it is you oppose, even to be able to discuss it with him, and judge it on its merits, not the normal ant catholic rhetoric.
You may be in for a surprise.

Ugh. I wish people who want to marry unequally yolked could see this thread. Both branches may believe in God but beyond that problems can occur. Especially when kids are involved.

I would show the verses to your 9 year old about how one is saved. More so that having Jesus in your heart is salvation. Not through workls, which is what alot of catholics are taught (at least from tall the catholic family and friends I know). Again, I may be wrong. But its what most catholics have told me they were taught. My grandmother thinks shes going because she helps out at special needs Olympic events. She gives money to her church...etc. So shes going to heaven she says but we are not because as evangelicals, having Jesus in your heart means nothing.

Your in a really tough spot. This can be damaging to your marriage if your husband is basically pinning you against your own kids on whos really the better christian. I frankly would have no patience if my own spouse, the one who is suppose to support and love me, called me a heretic. I don't believe in divorce but I would probably tell my spouse "Feel free to move out then until I am less of a heretic!".

 

[chevyontheriver]

Hi, I'm new here and wanted to find some input on how to handle a situation I find myself in, with my husband (of 18 years). I apologize this is lengthy...

I'm a non-denominational evangelical Christian and my husband is a traditional (SSPX) Roman Catholic. When we got married, he wasn't practicing, I was, so he would go with me to my non-denominational church (usually a Christian Center, or Assembly of God, etc). About 5 years ago, my husband found an SSPX church and started going to that church. We agreed to trade off, and each take them every other week to our church. That was working well.

Then last October, my husband decided to play the patriarchy card (his words) and demanded they all go to his church every Sunday and were not allowed to attend mine at all during this time. He wanted them to take somewhat of a cathecism class to learn about the Catholic church and it's teachings and traditions. The Priests told him, they would sit down with the kids individually, to discuss with them if they wanted to be baptized in the Catholic church or not. They said they want to make sure the children make the decision on their own and that they aren't coerced, etc. I am not really ok with this, as I still think the kids aren't old enough to make that decision yet, and could benefit from both of our faiths, but I'm the woman, and he's the "head of the household" so he's got the say so.

And, I believe my husband is coercing them. He doesn't allow them to attend anything of my church. My kids tell me in order for them to be able to play any video or computer games, dad makes them do the Rosary and say prayers with him. They say he gives them things, gifts, money, etc, if they'll do certain Catholic rituals with him. I'm not against praying, but I just don't think anyone should be bribed or coerced to do it. I know my kids want to please their dad, and he can be very opinionated and domineering, and I fear they will say they'll go to his church solely to make him happy, because they've told me they just pray with him or do things with him sometimes for his church, to shut him up, so he doesn't get mad, etc.

I know our oldest (15) has never had an interest in going to his dads church. Even when we traded weekends, he would constantly bug me not to make him go with dad, or to talk dad out of making him go. He even told my husband that he didn't believe in God, because science explained everything. Which freaked out my husband, but when we sat down and talked to my son, he explained he was just confused, but later told me on the side, that he just didn't want to go to dads church and was hoping dad wouldn't make him go, if he thought he didn't believe. He said he still liked my church, because it had age appropriate lessons and kids his age, etc. And he just wanted to go back to my church. All the kids have said dads church is boring, they speak in Latin, you can't understand what they are saying or what it means and it's long. And my youngest (who is 9) is asking why she can't continue going to both churches, and feels bad she has to make a choice of one over the other. She said the best thing about dads church are the donuts and the banquet hall after the Mass. But the other parts are boring.

To me, the whole point of going to church, is to fellowship, worship and learn about God. And for kids, it's hard enough getting them interested in the topic, let alone, getting the message through. There are no kids classes they go to, at my husbands church. They sit with all the adults in a Latin mass for an hour or so and then meet with one of the parishioners wives to be taught about what being Catholic is. There's nothing at their age level, and when I ask them what they've learned, they can never tell me. At my church, they go into specific age appropriate classes and are taught at that level, while I attend the adult service.

I try to tell my kids, make this decision based on what you want. Be selfish and don't think about me or your father or anything we want. I don't want them coerced, or bribed, or manipulated, or feeling they have to do something to please one of us. I want them to understand where they feel most comfortable and happy when they go, and where they feel the Spirit of God, is where they should decide to go. I know it's hard for a 9 year old to comprehend that, and I still think it's too early for her to make that kind of decision, if not unfair to her. And it wouldn't be so bad, but my husband is telling them, if they choose his church, they can't ever ever go to mine, it will strictly be only his church. Whereas, I told them, if they chose to continue going with me, I'd still allow them to go with their father occasionally, if they wanted.

But my husband is very forthright and hard to discuss anything with re:religion, even when it doesn't involve the kids. He's very set in his beliefs (and so am I), but we can't even have a decent conversation because he makes comments and implies that because I'm non-denominational, I'm a heretic and not a "Catholic", so I will have a harder time getting to Heaven, etc. He hasn't said it directly, but he implies he's better than I am, because he's part of the first, true religion. He calls me a "convenient Christian" if I don't share one of his beliefs or religious traditions he practices. So we can't even have a polite conversation as husband and wife, without him going into a tizzy, unless I agree with his beliefs 100%. And I'm being literal. I don't agree with his beliefs, and I don't believe in the stuff his church teaches, I honestly believe much of it to be unbiblical, to be honest, but I don't dare ever tell him what I truly feel or believe, because I can only imagine how he'd behave. I keep my mouth shut and try to avoid religious conversations. While he talks about being Christ like and more pius, but at the same time, is more judgemental and sanctimonious than anyone I've ever seen. While we both do believe in the basic tenets of Christianity - the Trinity (God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit) and the resurrection, baptism, etc., I just don't understand why we have to force the children to choose which path they want to take, or why we can't just let them take part in both our faiths, until they are old enough to make a decision on their own. And I have no idea how to talk to my husband about this or get him to see this view point.

I worry about the things my kids tell me, about the bribing and manipulating the kids, offering to give them things, money, game time, if they pray or do "Catholic" things with him. That to me, is SO uncool. I don't do that. I just do morning devotionals with them, and talk to them about having a personal relationship with Jesus, as well as correct some of the beliefs they are being taught, that I believe to be unbiblical. But I don't bribe, manipulate or try to coerce them. I just teach them biblical truth.

I'm not sure what to do, if anything. In a few months (or so I was told), they'll be toward the end of their "learning" classes at his church, wherein the Priest will sit them down and discuss joining and being baptized as a Catholic or not. I keep praying my kids will see the truth and their eyes will be open, and that God will help them make their decision. Obviously I prefer they go to my church, but I worry if they choose his, what they'll be taught and how already, they seem to be learning things that make them biased against me. For instance, my 9 yr old daughter, tells me often that she wishes I would be able to go to Heaven, but doesn't think I will because I'm a "Protestant". Now where do you think she gets that idea? It's so messed up.

I second the thing about being unequally yoked. Christians should marry Christians of like brand whenever possible. That doesn't guarantee no problems, but might lessen a few.

Going from a nothing to SSPX is a major step. I mean I appreciate a Latin mass as well as the next guy, but SSPX is not by any means in the middle of the bell curve of Catholicism. In fact, they are just coming to the point where they are no longer schismatic. They do believe some good things, and solidly, but I look at them and think they need to mellow a tiny bit.

You and your husband should not be working at cross purposes regarding faith, but manifestly you are. Obviously your husband had a long and significant journey to end up where he's at now. But it doesn't sound like he's shared much of that with you. He should have. He should have been willing to go on the journey WITH YOU, not on his own. My hunch is that he needs to comprehend that fact and back-track a bit to at least share with you what he has been thinking that brought him to where he is.

I come from this from a point of view that being Catholic is a valid way of being Christian. Being SSPX can also be a valid way of being Christian. So, while it might be a challenge to you, it would not be a denial of Jesus to become Catholic. It IS possible.

However there are multiple issues with Latin, with no age appropriate Christian education, things like that. I propose another possibility. It might work in your area, or you might be too far distant for it to work. That is to find a church of the Ordinariate. Fully Catholic. Really, actually fully Catholic. A conglomeration of former Episcopalians that have turned Catholic as whole parishes, with about 33 locations so far in the USA. Liturgically conservative. Very reverent with a liturgical tradition that goes back to ancient English liturgy almost as old as the Roman Rite itself. Known for being quite orthodox in their Catholic belief. In English, albeit some of it Elizabethan English. He should be able to accept that. Your children might find it an improvement. You might find it acceptable as well. Just an idea. Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter and Parish Finder

There are other Catholic parishes not part of the SSPX that have some Latin in the liturgy, like my own parish. We are an orthodox Catholic parish, do have youth programs, have a variety of music from chant to plainsong to choral from ancient to newly composed music. And incense and proper rubrics. But in English, novus ordo done respectfully and not like clowns would do it. If the Ordinariate is not available in your area, there are faithful Catholic parishes all over the country, and easy enough to find. Not every parish everywhere is wonderful, but decent ones are common enough. A compromise of such a parish might also be possible.

The other part is that no Catholic priest will be forcing baptism on a child who has reached the age of reason. If they don't want to be Catholic, they may have to attend in obedience to their father but they will not be baptized by force by the priest. If they do not want it, it will not happen.

I think it is your husband's responsibility to open up a lot more to you about his journey and your journey because right now it looks like you are going in different directions. He has landed in a bit of extreme Catholicism, and you haven't budged. I recently saw another example of husband and wife where the husband absolutely refuses to contemplate attending a Catholic church although the wife grew up Catholic. She is going along. I don't think that is ideal at all. She has rights. As do you. A husband that plays the 'patriarchy card' without two 'humility cards' has played a losing hand. He needs to see that his hand is a losing card. As Christians, both of you should share a great deal. You should be able to pray together. At this point the real issue is probably not what to do in parenting, but how to get yourselves more equally yoked by moving the harness around. It should be possible, but I grant it looks improbable. That's when praying hard for your husband is probably most critical. He needs to respect your journey and understand you and pray for you.

I'm reminded of Kimberly Hahn, whose husband went from a Protestant pastor to a Catholic professor before his wife was ready to do the same. They struggled but with a lot of prayer came through united and strong and happy. Journey Home – Open Line – Marcus Grodi with Dr. Scott Hahn and Kimberly Hahn – 09-06-2010

 

[david.d]

It sounds like this has put a rift between you two and some kind of compromise needs to be made. It may sound strange coming from a Baptist, but I would suggest going with him and explaining you want to be faithful together and talk about whatever issues you may have with the way it is. Right now your house is divided and you know what happens to a house divided against itself. It sounds like you may have to make the first move, which could prompt him to compromise. I'm sorry there isn't an easy fix, but I believe you have to come together and fix it together, God has an answer, you just need to find it.

 

[Paidiske]

It seems to me that you have a lot of work to do on your marriage; the problems stem from there. Do you think counselling for the two of you might be an option?

My husband and I belong to different denominations and that's not without any tension, but because we genuinely respect and support one another, we don't have the kind of scenario you describe.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Hi, I'm new here and wanted to find some input on how to handle a situation I find myself in, with my husband (of 18 years).

I recommended a long video by Scott and Kimberly Hahn about how things went when he became Catholic and she was not ready to do so. And then I listened to it again myself. Wow! It's right up your alley. You HAVE to listen to this. Then your husband has to listen to it. Then you both have to make changes, not just your husband, although he has to make some huge attitudinal changes. Sorry to act so pushy, but this will help exactly where you guys are.

Here is the link to the 56 minute video again: Journey Home – Open Line – Marcus Grodi with Dr. Scott Hahn and Kimberly Hahn – 09-06-2010

 

[Adstar]

Hi, I'm new here and wanted to find some input on how to handle a situation I find myself in, with my husband (of 18 years). I apologize this is lengthy...

I'm a non-denominational evangelical Christian and my husband is a traditional (SSPX) Roman Catholic. When we got married, he wasn't practicing, I was, so he would go with me to my non-denominational church (usually a Christian Center, or Assembly of God, etc). About 5 years ago, my husband found an SSPX church and started going to that church. We agreed to trade off, and each take them every other week to our church. That was working well.

Then last October, my husband decided to play the patriarchy card (his words) and demanded they all go to his church every Sunday and were not allowed to attend mine at all during this time. He wanted them to take somewhat of a cathecism class to learn about the Catholic church and it's teachings and traditions. The Priests told him, they would sit down with the kids individually, to discuss with them if they wanted to be baptized in the Catholic church or not. They said they want to make sure the children make the decision on their own and that they aren't coerced, etc. I am not really ok with this, as I still think the kids aren't old enough to make that decision yet, and could benefit from both of our faiths, but I'm the woman, and he's the "head of the household" so he's got the say so.

And, I believe my husband is coercing them. He doesn't allow them to attend anything of my church. My kids tell me in order for them to be able to play any video or computer games, dad makes them do the Rosary and say prayers with him. They say he gives them things, gifts, money, etc, if they'll do certain Catholic rituals with him. I'm not against praying, but I just don't think anyone should be bribed or coerced to do it. I know my kids want to please their dad, and he can be very opinionated and domineering, and I fear they will say they'll go to his church solely to make him happy, because they've told me they just pray with him or do things with him sometimes for his church, to shut him up, so he doesn't get mad, etc.

I know our oldest (15) has never had an interest in going to his dads church. Even when we traded weekends, he would constantly bug me not to make him go with dad, or to talk dad out of making him go. He even told my husband that he didn't believe in God, because science explained everything. Which freaked out my husband, but when we sat down and talked to my son, he explained he was just confused, but later told me on the side, that he just didn't want to go to dads church and was hoping dad wouldn't make him go, if he thought he didn't believe. He said he still liked my church, because it had age appropriate lessons and kids his age, etc. And he just wanted to go back to my church. All the kids have said dads church is boring, they speak in Latin, you can't understand what they are saying or what it means and it's long. And my youngest (who is 9) is asking why she can't continue going to both churches, and feels bad she has to make a choice of one over the other. She said the best thing about dads church are the donuts and the banquet hall after the Mass. But the other parts are boring.

To me, the whole point of going to church, is to fellowship, worship and learn about God. And for kids, it's hard enough getting them interested in the topic, let alone, getting the message through. There are no kids classes they go to, at my husbands church. They sit with all the adults in a Latin mass for an hour or so and then meet with one of the parishioners wives to be taught about what being Catholic is. There's nothing at their age level, and when I ask them what they've learned, they can never tell me. At my church, they go into specific age appropriate classes and are taught at that level, while I attend the adult service.

I try to tell my kids, make this decision based on what you want. Be selfish and don't think about me or your father or anything we want. I don't want them coerced, or bribed, or manipulated, or feeling they have to do something to please one of us. I want them to understand where they feel most comfortable and happy when they go, and where they feel the Spirit of God, is where they should decide to go. I know it's hard for a 9 year old to comprehend that, and I still think it's too early for her to make that kind of decision, if not unfair to her. And it wouldn't be so bad, but my husband is telling them, if they choose his church, they can't ever ever go to mine, it will strictly be only his church. Whereas, I told them, if they chose to continue going with me, I'd still allow them to go with their father occasionally, if they wanted.

But my husband is very forthright and hard to discuss anything with re:religion, even when it doesn't involve the kids. He's very set in his beliefs (and so am I), but we can't even have a decent conversation because he makes comments and implies that because I'm non-denominational, I'm a heretic and not a "Catholic", so I will have a harder time getting to Heaven, etc. He hasn't said it directly, but he implies he's better than I am, because he's part of the first, true religion. He calls me a "convenient Christian" if I don't share one of his beliefs or religious traditions he practices. So we can't even have a polite conversation as husband and wife, without him going into a tizzy, unless I agree with his beliefs 100%. And I'm being literal. I don't agree with his beliefs, and I don't believe in the stuff his church teaches, I honestly believe much of it to be unbiblical, to be honest, but I don't dare ever tell him what I truly feel or believe, because I can only imagine how he'd behave. I keep my mouth shut and try to avoid religious conversations. While he talks about being Christ like and more pius, but at the same time, is more judgemental and sanctimonious than anyone I've ever seen. While we both do believe in the basic tenets of Christianity - the Trinity (God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit) and the resurrection, baptism, etc., I just don't understand why we have to force the children to choose which path they want to take, or why we can't just let them take part in both our faiths, until they are old enough to make a decision on their own. And I have no idea how to talk to my husband about this or get him to see this view point.

I worry about the things my kids tell me, about the bribing and manipulating the kids, offering to give them things, money, game time, if they pray or do "Catholic" things with him. That to me, is SO uncool. I don't do that. I just do morning devotionals with them, and talk to them about having a personal relationship with Jesus, as well as correct some of the beliefs they are being taught, that I believe to be unbiblical. But I don't bribe, manipulate or try to coerce them. I just teach them biblical truth.

I'm not sure what to do, if anything. In a few months (or so I was told), they'll be toward the end of their "learning" classes at his church, wherein the Priest will sit them down and discuss joining and being baptized as a Catholic or not. I keep praying my kids will see the truth and their eyes will be open, and that God will help them make their decision. Obviously I prefer they go to my church, but I worry if they choose his, what they'll be taught and how already, they seem to be learning things that make them biased against me. For instance, my 9 yr old daughter, tells me often that she wishes I would be able to go to Heaven, but doesn't think I will because I'm a "Protestant". Now where do you think she gets that idea? It's so messed up.

The Apostle Paul gave clear warning to Christians not to get married to unbelievers..

The Bible is truth and good to take heed of..

2 Corinthians 6: KJV
14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

 

[chevyontheriver]

The Apostle Paul gave clear warning to Christians not to get married to unbelievers..

The Bible is truth and good to take heed of..

2 Corinthians 6: KJV
14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

It's actually a little late for such advice, although it would have been useful 19 years ago. So, now we have a situation of two believers who are radically different from one another. What do you think will help them?

 

[FireDragon76]

That's unfortunate.

I think you both would be better off conceding some and going to a mainstream Catholic church. The kids will get more out of the service and the people will be less rigid and fundamentalist, and more accepting of you. However, I doubt he would be willing to do it. But if you met him halfway by going with him, it might be an incentive.

Either way, I think you are going to need counseling. He sounds very rigid to live with and that can't be a good situation for you. Good relationships are about give and take, and sensitivity to other peoples needs and perspectives.

 

[Dave-W]

While this is certainly a rough patch, I see the husband's renewed interest in things spiritual to be positive. But he will have to come to the decision of whether the SSPX or even the RCC is the right place for him on his own.

I agree with firedragon on the counseling.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Well if both are steadfast in their different religions nothing is going to end the current conflict... Basically the Man has dominion over the household so in the end the dad will have the final say as to what religion his childeren will be indoctrinated into.. This woman can try to do her best to give her Childeren Christian influence but up untill the time they are adults the dads religion will be the dominant influence of he remains steadfast in his religion..

That sounds as patriarchal and paternalistic as her husband appears to be. Dad rules and the wife and kids drool. Somehow I expect to hear something about husbands loving their wives, something about husbands respecting their wives.

And this advice is NOT a little late for those young Christians reading this thread and who are Christians and who currently are interested in a catholic as a partner.. They need to forwarned to avoid such a marriage..

It looks like you presume Catholics are not Christians. This is a place for advice and not for debate, but it sounds like you and the SSPX husband could have fun telling each other that you are not Christians. Two sides of the same coin.

 

[Lucky9]

Well, thank you all for your input and advice. I want to clarify, when we got married, we discussed religion in great detail and, as I stated, my husband although raised Catholic, was not practicing, and had not been practicing for many years. So he knew where I stood and we both were very pragmatic about him returning to the Catholic church, because he specifically wanted ONLY the SSPX type.

And yes I do consider him a Christian, however, I also feel that some of the things he is practicing or being taught to believe via his church are not biblical. I don't have a problem with our kids attending his church. My problem is that he is keeping them completely out of mine and doing and saying things that somewhat negate my beliefs and practices. I consider myself a Christian without "religion' because I have a personal relationship with Christ. So I don't believe it is necessary or required, to follow many of the religious traditions and rituals that his church practices, in order to be saved or right with God. And yes, we have differing beliefs and will continue to do so, because I do not ever want to be a Catholic, in any way. I've researched it, studied it, looked into it from all sorts of angles, not just the SSPX version, and I do not like it at all. It feels creepy to me, completely disconnected from Jesus, and when I have attended his church, I am so uncomfortable and weirded out. That may seem strange to some, but it's how I feel. When I go to my non-denominational Christian church, I feel "at home" and I can literally feel the spirit move, so I know it's where I'm called to be. My husband says the same thing about how he feels at his church. He has embraced the SSPX thing full throttle, and the main reason he's a Catholic again, is because of this ONE SSPX church in our area. So going to another Catholic church is not an option. Going to the same church is not an option. He knew what I was all about when we got married. He was well informed of my beliefs and faith, and even practiced it with me before we got married and about 13 years into it. He is the one who took this huge leap going to the SSPX. And he does keep me informed with why he went there and what makes his feelings so strong on that particular church, etc. He does talk to me about his beliefs and what his church is about, but that doesn't change anything.

I feel like I'm the one getting the shaft in all this, because as I said, when we met, and before we got married, he was very laid back and non committal to practicing Catholicism. He said some day IF he ever found that kind of church again, he'd go, but the doubts were very high it would ever happen, and he was totally ok with going the route I already had going. To say I'm the one that needs to make changes, because of a choice he made well into the marriage, I feel is unfair and unjust. I realize it takes two, and we should be a partnership, but to be honest, we haven't really played well at that either.

I recognize our marriage has problems. And this "religion" is just another brick in that wall. My husband is very self-centered and arrogant and he's already set his foot down (as he calls it) on this because of the whole Patriarchy thing. He doesn't even know what humility is.... And maybe I'm stubborn too, but I'm sorry, my faith means something to me, feeling the spirit of God means something to me, and going to a church where I don't feel that, or worse, makes me feel uncomfortable, is not something I can live with. I tried going to his church, and it doesn't work. And even though he somehow thinks he'll "convert" me...I will never be a Catholic. I will never be any denomination. I'm solidly firm on where I stand with my faith and how I practice it. I don't think it would be right, or fair, to go along, to get along, for his sake. Yes we need to be united, but we vehemently disagree on "the church" and "religion", if you will. My whole point is that I wish we could let the kids experience both, until they get to a point they can honestly see both sides and make an informed decision on their own, instead of feeling like it's forced upon them. Because if I feel that, and hearing what they tell me, I know they feel that too. And the last thing i want, is for my kids to decide screw both of us, they want neither.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Well, thank you all for your input and advice. I want to clarify, when we got married, we discussed religion in great detail and, as I stated, my husband although raised Catholic, was not practicing, and had not been practicing for many years. So he knew where I stood and we both were very pragmatic about him returning to the Catholic church, because he specifically wanted ONLY the SSPX type.

So you knew going in that he was, sort of anyway, Catholic. He wasn't a practicing Catholic who stopped practicing but a non-practicing SSPXer who finally went back to that.

And yes I do consider him a Christian, however, I also feel that some of the things he is practicing or being taught to believe via his church are not biblical. I don't have a problem with our kids attending his church. My problem is that he is keeping them completely out of mine and doing and saying things that somewhat negate my beliefs and practices. I consider myself a Christian without "religion' because I have a personal relationship with Christ. So I don't believe it is necessary or required, to follow many of the religious traditions and rituals that his church practices, in order to be saved or right with God. And yes, we have differing beliefs and will continue to do so, because I do not ever want to be a Catholic, in any way. I've researched it, studied it, looked into it from all sorts of angles, not just the SSPX version, and I do not like it at all. It feels creepy to me, completely disconnected from Jesus, and when I have attended his church, I am so uncomfortable and weirded out. That may seem strange to some, but it's how I feel. When I go to my non-denominational Christian church, I feel "at home" and I can literally feel the spirit move, so I know it's where I'm called to be. My husband says the same thing about how he feels at his church. He has embraced the SSPX thing full throttle, and the main reason he's a Catholic again, is because of this ONE SSPX church in our area. So going to another Catholic church is not an option. Going to the same church is not an option. He knew what I was all about when we got married. He was well informed of my beliefs and faith, and even practiced it with me before we got married and about 13 years into it. He is the one who took this huge leap going to the SSPX. And he does keep me informed with why he went there and what makes his feelings so strong on that particular church, etc. He does talk to me about his beliefs and what his church is about, but that doesn't change anything.

It appears that you are irreconcilable. You won't bend. He won't bend. Lawyers love that kind of thing. Both sides make lots of money off their clients.

I feel like I'm the one getting the shaft in all this, because as I said, when we met, and before we got married, he was very laid back and non committal to practicing Catholicism. He said some day IF he ever found that kind of church again, he'd go, but the doubts were very high it would ever happen, and he was totally ok with going the route I already had going. To say I'm the one that needs to make changes, because of a choice he made well into the marriage, I feel is unfair and unjust. I realize it takes two, and we should be a partnership, but to be honest, we haven't really played well at that either.

So his big change, improbable but it happened, upset the balance that was fine when his faith held little meaning to him. You feel victimized, I'll bet he feels victimized, and nobody will change.

I recognize our marriage has problems. And this "religion" is just another brick in that wall. My husband is very self-centered and arrogant and he's already set his foot down (as he calls it) on this because of the whole Patriarchy thing. He doesn't even know what humility is.... And maybe I'm stubborn too, but I'm sorry, my faith means something to me, feeling the spirit of God means something to me, and going to a church where I don't feel that, or worse, makes me feel uncomfortable, is not something I can live with. I tried going to his church, and it doesn't work. And even though he somehow thinks he'll "convert" me...I will never be a Catholic. I will never be any denomination. I'm solidly firm on where I stand with my faith and how I practice it. I don't think it would be right, or fair, to go along, to get along, for his sake.

So stand your ground and he will stand his ground.

Yes we need to be united, but we vehemently disagree on "the church" and "religion", if you will. My whole point is that I wish we could let the kids experience both, until they get to a point they can honestly see both sides and make an informed decision on their own, instead of feeling like it's forced upon them. Because if I feel that, and hearing what they tell me, I know they feel that too. And the last thing i want, is for my kids to decide screw both of us, they want neither.

When you have joint custody they can go one church one weekend and the other church the other weekend and when they're old enough they can reject one or the other or most likely both churches.

Last night I watched and listened to a video of Kimberly and Scott Hahn describe a very different journey, one where both spouses respected each other, loved each other, prayed for each other, and it looked like they would remain at odds with each other. I linked to that in my second post to you. The respect was palpable. Kimberly could have ultimately decided she couldn't follow Scott to become Catholic but they would have bent over backwards for each other. I suppose such things are the rarity and the more common thing is fracture and pain and maimed children as the result. Oh well. I wish you well. I will pray for you, your husband, and your children. I'm sorry if I am pessimistic, but it looks like an impasse. I would recommend Retrouvaille.org but that would be too Catholic for you and probably not Catholic enough for him.

 

[Noscentia]

Well, thank you all for your input and advice. I want to clarify, when we got married, we discussed religion in great detail and, as I stated, my husband although raised Catholic, was not practicing, and had not been practicing for many years. So he knew where I stood and we both were very pragmatic about him returning to the Catholic church, because he specifically wanted ONLY the SSPX type.

And yes I do consider him a Christian, however, I also feel that some of the things he is practicing or being taught to believe via his church are not biblical. I don't have a problem with our kids attending his church. My problem is that he is keeping them completely out of mine and doing and saying things that somewhat negate my beliefs and practices. I consider myself a Christian without "religion' because I have a personal relationship with Christ. So I don't believe it is necessary or required, to follow many of the religious traditions and rituals that his church practices, in order to be saved or right with God. And yes, we have differing beliefs and will continue to do so, because I do not ever want to be a Catholic, in any way. I've researched it, studied it, looked into it from all sorts of angles, not just the SSPX version, and I do not like it at all. It feels creepy to me, completely disconnected from Jesus, and when I have attended his church, I am so uncomfortable and weirded out. That may seem strange to some, but it's how I feel. When I go to my non-denominational Christian church, I feel "at home" and I can literally feel the spirit move, so I know it's where I'm called to be. My husband says the same thing about how he feels at his church. He has embraced the SSPX thing full throttle, and the main reason he's a Catholic again, is because of this ONE SSPX church in our area. So going to another Catholic church is not an option. Going to the same church is not an option. He knew what I was all about when we got married. He was well informed of my beliefs and faith, and even practiced it with me before we got married and about 13 years into it. He is the one who took this huge leap going to the SSPX. And he does keep me informed with why he went there and what makes his feelings so strong on that particular church, etc. He does talk to me about his beliefs and what his church is about, but that doesn't change anything.

I feel like I'm the one getting the shaft in all this, because as I said, when we met, and before we got married, he was very laid back and non committal to practicing Catholicism. He said some day IF he ever found that kind of church again, he'd go, but the doubts were very high it would ever happen, and he was totally ok with going the route I already had going. To say I'm the one that needs to make changes, because of a choice he made well into the marriage, I feel is unfair and unjust. I realize it takes two, and we should be a partnership, but to be honest, we haven't really played well at that either.

I recognize our marriage has problems. And this "religion" is just another brick in that wall. My husband is very self-centered and arrogant and he's already set his foot down (as he calls it) on this because of the whole Patriarchy thing. He doesn't even know what humility is.... And maybe I'm stubborn too, but I'm sorry, my faith means something to me, feeling the spirit of God means something to me, and going to a church where I don't feel that, or worse, makes me feel uncomfortable, is not something I can live with. I tried going to his church, and it doesn't work. And even though he somehow thinks he'll "convert" me...I will never be a Catholic. I will never be any denomination. I'm solidly firm on where I stand with my faith and how I practice it. I don't think it would be right, or fair, to go along, to get along, for his sake. Yes we need to be united, but we vehemently disagree on "the church" and "religion", if you will. My whole point is that I wish we could let the kids experience both, until they get to a point they can honestly see both sides and make an informed decision on their own, instead of feeling like it's forced upon them. Because if I feel that, and hearing what they tell me, I know they feel that too. And the last thing i want, is for my kids to decide screw both of us, they want neither.

I felt terrible reading your posts, this is not an enviable position to be in for anyone. Since you plainly disagree with Catholic theology on a number of points and felt so uncomfortable attending a Catholic church, I don't think I'd recommend just 'giving-in' and pretending it's all okay just to keep the peace. While it's true that your husband is the head of you and your household, I think we can safely say (given what's been said here) that he's abusing that authority and not acting like a biblical husband. The worst part is him trying to turn his kids against you from outright bribery to allowing them to be taught that you're not saved. And that's the kicker for me, if he truly believes you aren't saved, then you must have a fundamental difference of opinion on the means of salvation. Has he told you if he believes whether or not you're saved? Do you think that if the kids chose to go to his church, he would still allow you to do devotionals with them? Do you think that if the kids chose to go to your church, that he would actually respect that? Or do you think that he'd just 'put his foot down' again and refuse to allow that?

Given the rock-and-a-hard-place scenario you're in, the only thing I can think of is if he still allows you to do devotionals with the kids on a daily basis, then keep reading the bible with them, correct any errors you think they're being taught, etc., but if he finds out that you're teaching them something against his beliefs, he may cut you off from their religious education entirely. From the sound of things, your kids aren't learning much about God's Word from going to weekly Latin masses, so it might be up to you to teach them anyhow if you want anything to stick.

Just speaking from my own experience, I was raised Catholic (our mass was in English, mind you) and was made to attend church regularly and while I enjoyed parts of Catholicism, especially the history and the saints, etc. none of it stuck with me past confirmation. Even after going through Parish School of Religion for most of my childhood, I didn't realize how little I knew about the Bible until I started exploring it for myself (after a very long stint as an atheist.) I'm not saying this is everyone's experience, or would necessarily be your children's, I just don't know how else you reconcile two parents who believe in two different means of salvation aside from genuinely teaching them the Gospel (in English, probably.)

Other than that, I would just continue to encourage your children to make their own decision when the time comes and how much more important it is that they do it for themselves and not for either parent. They'll only feel worse if they choose to follow a religion they don't believe just to please another. I don't think that's healthy for anyone's continued faith.

 

[Adstar]

That sounds as patriarchal and paternalistic as her husband appears to be. Dad rules and the wife and kids drool. Somehow I expect to hear something about husbands loving their wives, something about husbands respecting their wives.

It's Biblical that the Dad is head of the household.. You call it patriarchal,, Well it is.. Yes it is Patriarchal. Christianity is Patriarchal.. And the religion of catholicism is also Patriarchal.. So if you have a marriage between a catholic and a Christian where both are believers in their religion then yes the man will have the final say on what religion the Children will be predominantly indoctrinated into..

It looks like you presume Catholics are not Christians. This is a place for advice and not for debate, but it sounds like you and the SSPX husband could have fun telling each other that you are not Christians. Two sides of the same coin.

Well i was born into a devout catholic family and was a catholic for the first 20 years of my life.. I read the Bible in my early 20's and renounced the catholic religion and became a Christian.. Obviously if i thought the catholic religion was Christian i would have remained as a catholic.. So correct again i do not believe the catholic religion is Christian.. The catholic church and catholics can declare me to be a heretic or what ever they like it is not important to me.. What Jesus declares me to be is the only declaration i care about..

 

[chevyontheriver]

It's Biblical that the Dad is head of the household.. You call it patriarchal,, Well it is.. Yes it is Patriarchal. Christianity is Patriarchal.. And the religion of catholicism is also Patriarchal.. So if you have a marriage between a catholic and a Christian where both are believers in their religion then yes the man will have the final say on what religion the Children will be predominantly indoctrinated into..



Well i was born into a devout catholic family and was a catholic for the first 20 years of my life.. I read the Bible in my early 20's and renounced the catholic religion and became a Christian.. Obviously if i thought the catholic religion was Christian i would have remained as a catholic.. So correct again i do not believe the catholic religion is Christian.. The catholic church and catholics can declare me to be a heretic or what ever they like it is not important to me.. What Jesus declares me to be is the only declaration i care about..

It's nice to know where you Christians think I stand.

 

[Adstar]

It's nice to know where you Christians think I stand.

What has my reply to your question got anything to do with me stating where You stand ???? My reply is about where i stand and the stance of Christianity and catholicism and was no comment on your stance.. I do not know your stance...

This post from you is illogical..

 

[mkgal1]

I had to look up "SSPX"....and in doing so, I found this article:

We should always be cordial, respectful, and welcoming to them as brothers and sisters in Christ. Yet, their relationship with the Church is complex and developing. Moreover, the situation of SSPX bishops, of SSPX priests, of the faithful who formally align themselves with the SSPX, and of the faithful who occasionally or informally attend Mass with the SSPX, are all different in important ways. It would be inaccurate to call it a schismatic group in a strict sense, and we should all pray that it may someday be fully reconciled with the Church.

Having said that, all is not well with the SSPX. As Pope Benedict XVI made clear, the SSPX “does not possess a canonical status in the Church” and its ministers “do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church” (March 10, 2009, Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church).~A word of caution about the Society of Saint Pius X

.....which helps me to understand why your husband has these views that are opposite of the Catholic church.

This may give you a better idea as to what the Catholic views are on marriage/family:

Jesus promised to be where two or three are gathered in his name (cf. Mt 18:20). We give the name church to the people whom the Lord gathers, who strive to follow his way of love, and through whose lives his saving presence is made known.

A family is our first community and the most basic way in which the Lord gathers us, forms us, and acts in the world. The early Church expressed this truth by calling the Christian family a domestic church or church of the home.
The Sacred Scripture passage that many couples choose for their wedding ceremony is a marvelous blueprint for loving.

Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails (1 Cor 13:4-8).

These words of St. Paul are worth daily meditation not only for their insight into the true shape of love but for strengthening our wills to follow this way of love. The love that he describes flourishes in faithful, stable relationships. This applies, first and foremost, to a marriage. It is true also for the entire family.

At the basis of all relationships in a family is our fundamental equality as persons created in God's image. The creation narratives in the Book of Genesis teach this fundamental truth: "both man and woman are human beings to an equal degree, both are created in God's image" (On the Dignity and Vocation of Women, no. 6).

And St. Paul describes the "new creation" made possible in Christ:

For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal 3:27-28).Marriage is the partnership of a man and woman equal in dignity and value. This does not imply sameness in roles or expectations. Nor does the equality of persons mean that two spouses will have identical gifts or character or roles.

Rather, a couple who accepts their equality as sons and daughters in the Lord will honor and cherish one another. They will respect and value each other's gifts and uniqueness. They will "be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ" (Eph 5:21).

True equality, understood as mutuality, is not measuring out tasks (who prepares the meals, who supervises homework, and so forth) or maintaining an orderly schedule. It thrives at a much deeper level where the power of the Spirit resides. Here, the grace of the vowed life not only makes the shedding of willfulness possible, but also leads to a joyful willingness.

Mutuality is really about sharing power and exercising responsibility for a purpose larger than ourselves. How household duties are distributed should follow from understanding what it takes to build a life together, as well as the individual skills and interests you bring to your common life.

Our experience as pastors shows us that genuine marital intimacy and true friendship are unlikely without mutuality. One spouse alone is not the keeper of love's flame. Both of you are co-creators of your relationship. Nowhere is this more vividly portrayed than in your decisions about having children. The Church promotes natural family planning for many reasons, among which are that "it favors attention for one's partner, helps both parties to drive out selfishness, the enemy of true love, and deepens their sense of responsibility" (On Human Life, no. 21).~Follow the Way oF Love

In my experience....the Catholic church does a great job in counseling their parishioners (and even non-parishioners--without pressuring them to convert). You may want to seek out counseling through them (and maybe your husband will perceive that as you thinking of his wishes?).

This link may be helpful: Retrouvaille Marriage Help Program For Struggling Couples

 

[mkgal1]

I would just continue to encourage your children to make their own decision when the time comes and how much more important it is that they do it for themselves and not for either parent. They'll only feel worse if they choose to follow a religion they don't believe just to please another. I don't think that's healthy for anyone's continued faith.

I agree. Also.....I think the message it portrays about God/love can lead to all sorts of trouble later, too. Love isn't manipulation. That's what I see as maybe the most harmful parts of all this...is how he's forcing the children to do things against their will (leaving no room for them to explore and discover on their own). With them nearing (or at) teen-age years....IMO, that's a scary thing to mess around with. I believe in building the bond of trust between children and parents....not merely teaching them to avoid punishment/consequences.