How many steps does it take?

[Loudmouth]

nope. It's based upon assumptions. The evo-crowd has to show how MUTATIONS could have cause what they claimed happened...not line up fossils and applying their typical circular reasoning.

Why are chimps and humans different from each other? Is it because of the DNA sequence differences between their genomes?

 

[-57]

Is that why men, even today, have one less rib than women?

What?

 

[-57]

What is impossible about it?

Because you can't show how it's possible.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Because you can't show how it's possible.

But you have not shown that it's impossible. All you've done is shown that you do not have the best understanding of evolution.

 

[-57]

But you have not shown that it's impossible. All you've done is shown that you do not have the best understanding of evolution.

Wrong...evos made the claim....(now they have to justify the claim) The Creationist say , no, can't happen.
....So, how long will we all have to wait before the evos can demonstrate evolutionism? Another 150 years?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Wrong...evos made the claim....(now they have to justify the claim) The Creationist say , no, can't happen.
....So, how long will we all have to wait before the evos can demonstrate evolutionism? Another 150 years?

Again: YOU are claiming that it is impossible, but you have not SHOWN that evolution is impossible.

 

[-57]

Again: YOU are claiming that it is impossible, but you have not SHOWN that evolution is impossible.

You haven't shown that evolutionism is possible. All you have done is present a claim.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

You haven't shown that evolutionism is possible. All you have done is present a claim.

Evidence for evolution
And it's not evolutionism. There is no -ism to be attached to evolution. It's a scientific theory of biology.

 

[-57]

Can anyone give a quantitative answer to David Berlinski's question:

"Quantitatively, how many changes must take place for a cow to become a whale?"

Can anyone quantify the number of changes that would be needed to morph from one creature to another?

So far it doesn't appear those with a faith in evolutionism can.

 

[The Cadet]

You haven't shown that evolutionism is possible.

Artificial breeding proves that the basic mechanisms of evolution are all possible - descent with modification and natural/artificial selection. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you think is supposed to be impossible. The changes from Ambulocetus into a modern Blue Whale? This is like implying that you can walk 5 meters, but couldn't walk from New York to Albuquerque. The number of changes is large, but when you consider the huge number of generations between when Ambulocetus lived and when Blue Whales lived, it's entirely reasonable for that many changes to occur in that time.

So yes, evolution is possible.

 

[-57]

Artificial breeding proves that the basic mechanisms of evolution are all possible - descent with modification and natural/artificial selection. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you think is supposed to be impossible. The changes from Ambulocetus into a modern Blue Whale? This is like implying that you can walk 5 meters, but couldn't walk from New York to Albuquerque. The number of changes is large, but when you consider the huge number of generations between when Ambulocetus lived and when Blue Whales lived, it's entirely reasonable for that many changes to occur in that time.

So yes, evolution is possible.

Your argument falls apart rather quickly when you realize that breeding...forms no new body parts, appendages, organs.

So, you throw in the magical equation....TIME...Then you assume "it's entirely reasonable for that many changes to occur"

....would you like to try again?

 

[The Cadet]

Your argument falls apart rather quickly when you realize that breeding...forms no new body parts, appendages, organs.

So? Let's just take the example in the first post again. For Ambulocetus to become a blue whale, what "new appendages" need to be formed? The tail? Ambulocetus has a tail; it simply needed to be adapted. Baleen? Ambulocetus had teeth - again, they simply needed to be adapted. A blowhole? That would be nostrils.

The fact is that "new" body parts are actually fairly rare, especially in complex animals. Most components of most tetrapods can be traced back to the bony fish of the late cambrian. And such changes take an immense amount of time.

That said, this isn't precisely what you ask about (you won't find precisely what you're asking for, because evolution predicts that such changes would in most cases take a very long time to occur), but we do observe breeding producing new functions on a regular basis. Things like the Lenski experiment, or the bacterium that evolved to eat vinyl.

 

[-57]

So? Let's just take the example in the first post again. For Ambulocetus to become a blue whale, what "new appendages" need to be formed? The tail? Ambulocetus has a tail; it simply needed to be adapted. Baleen? Ambulocetus had teeth - again, they simply needed to be adapted. A blowhole? That would be nostrils.

The fact is that "new" body parts are actually fairly rare, especially in complex animals. Most components of most tetrapods can be traced back to the bony fish of the late cambrian. And such changes take an immense amount of time.

That said, this isn't precisely what you ask about (you won't find precisely what you're asking for, because evolution predicts that such changes would in most cases take a very long time to occur), but we do observe breeding producing new functions on a regular basis. Things like the Lenski experiment, or the bacterium that evolved to eat vinyl.

OK, you just made the claim it can happen....show us how random mutations have the ability to make these "adaptations".
Lets focus on the nostril to blowhole. I'll let you go first.

 

[ecco]

Is that why men, even today, have one less rib than women?

What?

Just wanted to see if anyone here would bite. Some people do believe that men have one less rib. That is evidenced by the 100,000 results that come up when Googling "men have fewer ribs than women".

 

[ecco]

Your argument falls apart rather quickly when you realize that breeding...forms no new body parts, appendages, organs.

This has no appendages or organs either.

 

[-57]

Just wanted to see if anyone here would bite. Some people do believe that men have one less rib. That is evidenced by the 100,000 results that come up when Googling "men have fewer ribs than women".

Check out rib regeneration.

 

[-57]

This has no appendages or organs either.

OK, I care about that because....

 

[The Cadet]

OK, you just made the claim it can happen....show us how random mutations have the ability to make these "adaptations".
Lets focus on the nostril to blowhole. I'll let you go first.

Is your nose in the exact same shape and position as your father's? Genetic mutations allow for subtle changes in the structure of the face. I'm a little bit lost - what, exactly, is confusing to you here? Why wouldn't it be possible?

 

[-57]

Is your nose in the exact same shape and position as your father's? Genetic mutations allow for subtle changes in the structure of the face. I'm a little bit lost - what, exactly, is confusing to you here? Why wouldn't it be possible?

I think you confuse yourself when you act as if simple genetic recombination of already established DNA is evolution.

What I am talking about is the ability for random chance mutations to form completly new systems. Show us how random mutations have the ability to make these adaptations that increase the information in our DNA code.
Lets focus on the nostril to blowhole.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I think you confuse yourself when you act as if simple genetic recombination of already established DNA is evolution.

What I am talking about is the ability for random chance mutations to form completly new systems. Show us how random mutations have the ability to make these adaptations that increase the information in our DNA code.
Lets focus on the nostril to blowhole.

Your first stumbling block is saying that the mutations are random. They are not random at all. The change in position of the nostril from the front of the Ambulocetus' snout to the position it is on modern whales is direct mutational change in response to the pressures of the animal having to continually raising it's head out of the water to breath air.
It's not a completely new system. It's just moving a part from one area of the body to another.