Holy Trinity vs. Unholy Trinity
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I have made countless similiar mistakes. I am sure our pious and lovable friend @Jipsah appreciates your zealous defense of the faith against false doctrine as much as I do, even if in this case it was inadvertently misdirected.
But at least you didn’t write actual essays in response to jokes misinterpreted as being serious, which I have done on several occasions!
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Verily, I am the most pedantic member of these forums.
Or at least that’s what my mirror used to say when I asked it “Magic mirror on the wall, who is the most pedantic of them all?”
However, worryingly it replied “Famed is thy pedantry, Majesty but hold, a young librarian I see, whose obscurity cannot hide his grandiloquence; alas, he is more pedantic than thee.”
“A lash for that librarian!” I responded, in furious anger. Then I got sued by the Walt Disney Company for infringing on their Snow White IP. Apparently magic mirrors are only allowed to exist in the offices of senior Disney executives.
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Yes although I am in poor health at the moment, although I just got my first good blood pressure result this month, with it finally stabilizing at 127/74, although I remain tachycardic, so prayers are appreciated, particularly that I might be well enough to celebrate Holy Week.
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walter45
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Is there anyone out there that is not afraid of a challenge? They say the Holy Trinity is Essential. Are you interested in what Jesus says? People have different versions of the Trinity, which version of the Trinity does Jesus teach, if at all?
* We find the top 12 scriptures with Jesus talking and teaching the Trinity.
* We find the top 12 scriptures with Jesus talking and teaching He is God's Son and The Father is the only true God. --John 17:3
1. Is the Trinity really essential?
2. Why does Jesus call his Father my God and the only true God?
* We find the top 12 scriptures with Jesus talking and teaching the Trinity.
* We find the top 12 scriptures with Jesus talking and teaching He is God's Son and The Father is the only true God. --John 17:3
1. Is the Trinity really essential?
2. Why does Jesus call his Father my God and the only true God?
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Clare73
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God is the Father of the divine Son and the God of the human Son, both in the one person, Jesus of Nazareth.
So for starters: yes, there is only one God. . .
but the NT bears clear testimony to three distinct divine persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as shown in NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16), which presents three divine agents---with personal pronouns, personal titles, personal functions and acting as personal agents. . .thereby presenting the three divine agents in the one God as persons.
The Trinity, one God in three divine persons, is presented in NT apostolic teaching from the beginning.
1) We have three distinct persons (divine agents), Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
presented in the work of salvation:
a)--at its beginning (Luke 1:35),
----at the inauguration of Jesus' public ministry (Matthew 3:16-17) and
----in the work of atonement (Hebrews 9:14),
b) the Holy Spirit completing the work (salvation) of the Father through the Son (Acts 2:38-39; Romans 8:26; 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:13-22; 2 Thessalonians 2:13;1 Peter 1:2),
c) the only way to enter the kingdom of the Father (salvation) is through faith in the Son and regeneration by the Holy Spirit (John 3:1-15).
2) And Jesus shows the personhoods of three distinct divine agents:
The Son is sent by the Father, in the Father's name (John 5:23, 36, 43).
The Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name (John 14:26).
The Spirit is subject to the Son as well as to the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father (John 15:26, 16:7, 14:26).
One doesn't send oneself, one sends another who is distinct from oneself.
The Trinity--one God in three distinct divine persons--is presented in NT teaching from the beginning.
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Forgive me, but before I take the considerable time to write a thorough and precise answer to this question, I just want to make sure you have read and agree with the ChristianForums Statement of Faith and thus the Nicene Creed, and are a Nicene Christian asking for clarification of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity in good faith, rather than a non-Trinitarian.
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BibleLinguist
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To my mind, the comparison between Matthew 22:32 and Romans 14:9 is of particular interest. Consider the following chart:
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Clare73
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Nevertheless, apostolic teaching authoritative to God's people identifies Jesus as the YHWH of the OT.
1) Mt 3:3 (Isa 40:3) - Isaiah prophecies a voice of one calling in the desert, "Prepare the way for YHWH," which was John the Baptist (Mk, Lk). John prepared the way for Jesus (Mk 1:7-8, Lk 3:16, Jn 1:29-34). . .making Jesus the YHWH of Isa 40:3.
2) Ro 10:9, 13 (Joel 2:32) - Joel prophesies that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved," which Paul quotes and applies to Jesus. . .making Jesus the YHWH of Joel 2:32.
3) Heb 1:6 (Dt 32:43) - Moses said, "Rejoice, O nations, with his people, and let all the angels worship him (YHWH), for he will avenge the blood of his servants (Septuagint translation), which Hebrews quotes and applies to Jesus. . .making Jesus the YHWH of Dt 32:43.
4) Eph 4:8-9 (Ps 68:18) - The psalmist states, "When you ascended on high. . .that you, O YHWH, might dwell there," which Paul applies to the ascended Christ. . .making Christ the YHWH of Ps 68:18
5) Jn 19:37 (Zec 12:10) - Zechariah prophesies that they will look on YHWH (12:1-2), the one they have pierced, which John applies to Jesus. . . making Jesus the YHWH of Zec 12:1-2, 10.
6) Lk 4:18-21 (Isa 61:1, 8) - Isaiah's prophecy identifies YHWH of vv. 7-8 with the Messiah of v. 1, which Jesus applies to himself. . .
making Jesus the YHWH of Isa 61:1, 7-8.
7) Rev 1:12-18 (Isa 44:6, 48:12) - In Rev 1:12-18, Jesus (1:18, 2:8) identifies himself as the First and the Last, which is YHWH of Isa 44:6, 48:12. . .making Jesus the YHWH of Isa 44:6, 48:12.
8) In Rev 21:6, 22:12-13, Jesus (1:18, 2:8) is the Alpha and Omega who is the Lord God of Rev 1:8.
9) In Rev 20:11-13 w/ Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39, the one on the throne is Jesus, who in Rev 21:7 is God. . .making Jesus the God of Rev 21:7.
10) Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10 (Ge 1:1, Isa 44:24, Jer 10:16) - Isa 44:24 says YHWH created alone, while Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10 say Jesus brought all things into being, created all things including angels and by his power holds them in existence, and made the universe. . .so according to John, Paul and Hebrews, Jesus is the Elohim Creator YHWH of Ge, Isa and Jer.
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BibleLinguist
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The matter of Jesus' name is summed up well by one verse.
"I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." (John 5:43)
This is corroborated by Matthew 28:19 where Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are linked to a single name, both in English and in Greek (not three names). The disciples recognized this name, and baptized according to Jesus' instructions in that single name. See Acts 4:10-12; Acts 2:38; Acts 8:12,16; Acts 19:4-5; and Romans 6:3.
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ViaCrucis
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This is an erroneous interpretation.
Jesus is the name given to the Divine Son when He became flesh. So we can say that Jesus Christ has always existed, because we speak of Him as a Divine and Eternal Person, having His Deity in, from, and with the Father (homoousios, consubstantial, of the same and very being of the Father as true and very God). But it is a name unique to the Son, for the Son alone took on flesh, was united to our nature, our essence, as a true and real human being; flesh of Mary's flesh, as her seed, the Son of David, the Seed of Abraham, the Son of Man.
The Father is not Jesus.
The Holy Spirit is not Jesus.
The Son is Jesus, Jesus is the Son. The Divine Son of the Father.
Jesus came in His Father's name, i.e. He came in the authority and power of His Father.
This is an idea that has deep biblical roots, that a name is not just a collection of sounds which identifies an individual. In Hebrew שֵׁם (shem) means "name", but also reputation, fame, renown; it speaks of character. In English we can see a comparable idea of name in expressions such as "in the name of the king"--it is an invocation of authority, to act on behalf of another because the other has authority, or reputation, etc.
When we see this "in the name of" language, that is what is meant: something done by the authority of another. We, therefore, pray in Jesus' name; we act and speak in His name. That is also the meaning of baptizing in or by the name of Jesus, it is His baptism, i.e. the baptism which He institutes by His own authority when He says "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them". It is another way of saying Christian Baptism, as distinct from the various "baptisms" of Judaism, or the baptism of St. John the Baptist; Christian Baptism--the baptism which Christ our Lord instituted--is a distinct thing which is the mark and seal of the Christian by which a person is brought into the covenant of grace and made a new person (c.f. John 3:3-5, Romans 6:3-4, et al).
It does not mean that the Three Divine Persons of the Holy Trinity are all named "Jesus". There are not three Jesuses, there's only one Jesus, the Son of God, Eternally-begotten of the Father as Word and Son of the Father.
"In the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit" is not "in the name of Jesus"; it is the singular name of the Trinity (i.e. "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit") because we are speaking of the Trinity, and the singular authority of God the Holy Trinity. And because Christian Baptism is not a baptism into Christ only, but a baptism into the Holy Trinity whereby, by our union to Christ, we receive the free gift of sonship (Galatians 4:4-7), and therefore have been brought into, by grace, the life and love of the Holy Trinity: Christ's Father is now our Father, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, is the Spirit Himself who now dwells in us. This Trinitarian understanding of Holy Baptism is prefigured in the Lord's own baptism in the River Jordan, where the Son in the water is also met with the voice of the Father from heaven, and the Holy Spirit descending like a dove. All Three Divine Persons are present in Baptism.
It is not about formula, but about things much deeper and more significant: That by Christ's command His Church baptizes, and in baptizing disciples are made, by grace alone sinners estranged from God receive faith, and are united to Jesus Christ, and in Christ come to know the Father as Father, and have the Holy Spirit, whereby the sinner is forgiven, justified, receiving the full benefits of Christ's atoning work (which is once and for all), and is now in the Mystery of the Holy Trinity; and here we are being sanctified, called to carry our cross of discipleship, have the hope and promise of salvation, both now as gift through faith and in the end with the resurrection of the body.
Of course the Son comes in His Father's name, for the Son bears His Father's full authority as the Divine Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.
-CryptoLutheran
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BibleLinguist
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What do you do, then, with Isaiah 9:6? Why is the name of "everlasting Father" attached to the Son if the Father is not Jesus?
I agree with this, and I do not find that the word "name" cannot mean authority and power at the same time as meaning "name". In Hebrew, for what this is worth, the word "name" is actually "Shem." Interesting?
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