Holiness vs. Sinner

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amberglory

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I actually saw an earlier thread concerning this, named something else, but same topic and was sad when I saw it actually went no where! So I would like to make a debate concerning this topic. I would be arguing Holiness since it tis what I believe. To elaborate I will be saying that it is possible to live a full and holy life as it is what God intended and will be backing it up with scripture. Any takers!
 

MarkRohfrietsch

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amberglory

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QUOTE=jax5434;66195938]I think we are on the same side of the issue of then.

God Bless
Jax[/QUOTE]

Sweet

I think that this is a good topic. Being Lutheran, I hold the saint and sinner at the same time (Simul Justus et Peccator) theology. I think someone would be interested. Might I suggest that you elaborate a bit more without giving up your arguments?

Mark
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Um yes, God requires us to be holy as He is holy. He has conditions, commands in order to be with Him, walk with Him.
 
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droval

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I would take it, on the same side as Strathos (more or less). I think Sin is not just an act, but an identity, and the identity of a person only changes through a lifetime, so the process of "becoming holy" takes the hole life. Also, holiness is a relative concept that depends on the subject.
 
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com7fy8

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I would take it, on the same side as Strathos (more or less). I think Sin is not just an act, but an identity, and the identity of a person only changes through a lifetime, so the process of "becoming holy" takes the hole life. Also, holiness is a relative concept that depends on the subject.
Yes, if someone is talking about if one can be holy, one needs to be clear about what the person means by "holy".

God wants us to become "holy and without blame before Him in love." (see Ephesians 1:4)

So, the holiness which God desires has to do with how His love changes us to become "as He is" "in this world." (see 1 John 4:17)

So, it is not only about if we do certain wrong things or not. But also, I would say, holiness has to do with how love has us becoming in our feelings and emotions and attitudes and thinking and how we are "responding" . . . "because of how God's love is curing the character of our personality" :)

And to me Hebrews 12:4-11 means we all always will still need more correction of our character (Hebrews 12:8), and we need to seek our Father for this correction (Hebrews 12:10), and His correction will make us become "partakers of His holiness" (Hebrews 12:10) and have us enjoying "the peaceable fruit of righteousness". (Hebrews 12:11)

And Paul says, "Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" (in Philippians 2:14-16).

So, included in the process of becoming holy in love, I would say, is stopping all our "complaining and disputing" . . . which God does say to do, not in the next life, but right "in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation". So, if He commands this, I would say He considers this realistic; however, I do understand it takes the almighty power of God's love to cure our character so we succeed in this :)

So, if this is what you mean by becoming holy, I would say the Bible says yes this is realistic . . . possible with God :)
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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QUOTE=jax5434;66195938]I think we are on the same side of the issue of then.

God Bless
Jax

Sweet



Um yes, God requires us to be holy as He is holy. He has conditions, commands in order to be with Him, walk with Him.[/quote]

You are right, the debate would require to define "holy", "sin" and then what is and is not possible

amberglory,

I agree with droval, could you define the terms "holy" and "sin" in the context of your proposal. For example, would you be arguing from the POV that once save one is incapable of sin; from the POV that one can actually keep "the Law"; that one can cooperate with one's grace; or any combination of these or other theological viewpoints.

For potential opponents, it is difficult for them to agree to a debate when they are not exactly sure of what they are arguing against.

Think of it this way, you go for a drive and you get lost; you don't know where you are. You get out a map and look at it, you know where you are going, but unless you know where you are, there is no way that you can get there. Likewise, an opponent can't argue if he does not know what the argument is.:)
 
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