Hello...

[FreeinChrist]

...and welcome to a new forum.

 

[Paidiske]

Hello! And thank you for creating a place for folks who take this approach to be at home.

I can't tell you how incredibly grateful I am!

 

[teresa]

Hello Paidiski

Thank you for taking this innovative step.

May the Lord bless our journey together here.

 

[Tigger45]

I used to be much more conservative and in the early 1990's i left a church due to them bringing on a female assistant pastor. The church i belong to now has a female assistant pastor who does an excellent job. To me being a pastor is a tough job and I would think the good ones that stick it out would seem to need to have a calling on their life. I still feel the strongest biblical argument is for male pastors but I can't also get around the fact how prophetic she's been over the years concerning my wife and I that she (our female pastor) is pretty much unaware of. We mentioned it to her once and she just said she hears that from time to time. So who am I to question such a gift.

 

[Cimorene]

Are egalitarian Christians just Christians who believe in being egalitarian or does it have more than 1 meaning. Like how fundamentalism does.

 

[Cimorene]

Really? I've never been to Australia but I thought it was more like Canada, like progressive?

 

[JackRT]

I have never visited Australia but I have met quite a few right here in Canada. I do see a lot of similarities between the two nations.

 

[tansy]

I just read the Statement of Purpose and essentially I am in agreement with those things. However I would like to understand more about those things biblically, as some of the arguments for, say, women not being able to teach or preach kind of seem like they might be valid. So I don't know whether I'm going by my gut feelings so to speak, or whether believing some things are not quite right.
Also, although I certainly believe that men and women are equal before God, we are not equal in certain things, for example, usually men are stronger and taller than women (overall), things like that. So obviously we have to complement each other..in that sense, we are equal.
So, (if I'm permitted to ask this question in this forum), would you say that female leadership complements male leadership, and that ideally you would have both forms in a church setting...and how would, say, a female pastor work with a male under-pastor (or whatever the equivalent is in one's particular church). Or should we indeed have any kind of heirarchy that seems to raise one person over another?
When I first became a Christian, I kind of had this mental or inner picture of all believers, men and women, actually just kind of working together as one, led by the Holy Spirit and no one person being more 'important' or 'higher' than another. Maybe rather idealistic. However, once I was kind of seeing a load of believers outside by a river and everyone praying for and laying hands on one another, helping each other, whoever they might be and no-one really in over-all charge. But probably a flight of fancy

 

[Cimorene]

I've always really liked Australians a lot. I want to go there so much. It's definitely much nicer this time of the yr than Canada! They had a female prime minister so they clearly they don't have a hang up about ladies being in leadership. I hadn't known anybody did tbh until there were all these threads before the election in the US about how a woman shouldn't be POTUS.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Thanks for all your hard work! I'm glad this is here.

 

[Paidiske]

Are egalitarian Christians just Christians who believe in being egalitarian or does it have more than 1 meaning. Like how fundamentalism does.

Can I suggest that you start a separate thread on this? Just since the forum is so new, and it would be good to generate some activity. And it would be a good opening thread. What does being egalitarian mean to you?

It must be somewhat of a challenge being a female pastor in a macho country like Australia. Don't get me wrong, I have never met an Australian that I didn't like but it does seem to be the world's largest unsupervised outdoor insane asylum.

I laughed.

Australia does have a reputation for being tough on women compared to other places. I don't really know, because I haven't been many other places. I don't think it's tougher than South Africa.

I think being a pastor is always a challenge, it's just a question of which set of challenges come to the fore in any particular place...

So, (if I'm permitted to ask this question in this forum), would you say that female leadership complements male leadership, and that ideally you would have both forms in a church setting...and how would, say, a female pastor work with a male under-pastor (or whatever the equivalent is in one's particular church). Or should we indeed have any kind of heirarchy that seems to raise one person over another?
When I first became a Christian, I kind of had this mental or inner picture of all believers, men and women, actually just kind of working together as one, led by the Holy Spirit and no one person being more 'important' or 'higher' than another. Maybe rather idealistic. However, once I was kind of seeing a load of believers outside by a river and everyone praying for and laying hands on one another, helping each other, whoever they might be and no-one really in over-all charge. But probably a flight of fancy

Like I said to Cimorene, can I suggest you start another thread with that question? Not because it's wrong here, but just to help get the area started.

FWIW, I think it's hard for us to use hierarchies without abusing them. But every group needs leadership in some form. How we do that well is a good topic to explore!

 

[JackRT]

What does being egalitarian mean to you?

To me, egalitarianism means intellectual and spiritual equality between men and women. The obvious physical differences and the less obvious psychological differences are minor in comparison. Any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils. First, it is the insult to the women themselves by viewing them as less worthy. Second, it is the insult to God by denigrating half of God’s creation. If we continue to treat women in this way, then the human race is condemned to stand on one foot, see with one eye, hear with one ear and think with one half the human mind ---- and it shows.

 

[JackRT]

post deleted

 

[Dave-W]

Any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils.

I am not sure I would quite put it that way; but the point is very valid. In any leadership structure, there needs to be input from both male and female perspectives.

IMO that was the brilliance of Paul's insistence that, even in a patriarchal world like Rome, congregational leadership had to be "husband of one wife." That meant that unless the husband was a tyrant (in which case he should be no where near church leadership) his wife's voice was as present as his was.

In our previous congregation I was on the deacon board for several years; and while the official board membership was limited to men, the wives attended as well and had equal say and equal votes on every issue. (which suited me just fine)

 

[All4Christ]

While the Orthodox Church falls into the only men being priests / bishops category, it is interesting to me how vital the role our Matushka / Presbytera (priest's wife) holds. The name literally means "little (dear) mother", as a parellel to "father". Often, the most effective priests are ones that are married, as their wives are a critical part of ministry as well. Ours, for example, leads womens' Bible groups, fellowship groups (for all members), and children's Sunday school; teaches our faith to others at a local college; and assists in / leads a multitude of other ministries. Her role is extremely important for the spiritual care of the church.

A woman is not lower in the eyes of God. No matter the position of ordination to the clergy, the Church needs leadership of both men and women.

 

[Paidiske]

I am not sure I would quite put it that way; but the point is very valid. In any leadership structure, there needs to be input from both male and female perspectives.

IMO that was the brilliance of Paul's insistence that, even in a patriarchal world like Rome, congregational leadership had to be "husband of one wife." That meant that unless the husband was a tyrant (in which case he should be no where near church leadership) his wife's voice was as present as his was.

I don't think I'd agree with you, Dave.

For example, my husband is part of the board of his church (is not my church). Yes, on occasion I get asked my opinion on something, but the idea that my voice is as present as his is laughable.

Nor, if it were my church, would I be satisfied with that. What about the times when I would disagree with him about something, or just plain think of something that hadn't occurred to him, etc?

Men representing (their) women isn't enough for women to be included.

Edited to add: Else we'd be back in the days when it was felt sufficient if only men could vote!

 

[Dave-W]

Men representing (their) women isn't enough for women to be included.

Yeah - I get that. But that is why in our meetings both spouses were present and took part in the discussion and voting.

 

[Chaplain David]

...and welcome to a new forum.

Hello,

I pray that God richly and abundantly blesses everyone here. May:

"The Lord bless you, and keep you, The Lord make his face shine upon you, and be gracious unto you, The Lord lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace." (Numbers 6:24-26)

Faithfully,

 

[teresa]

Thank you Chaplain David that is very refreshing to read this morning.

 

[Chaplain David]

Thank you Chaplain David that is very refreshing to read this morning.

You're very welcome. Some of the most refreshing and deep blessings are contained in the old testament IMO.

All the best,