God Doesn't Want Me To Know Him

[The Cadet]

I have not been presented with convincing evidence that a god exists.

Any omniscient, omnipotent god would know exactly what would be necessary to convince me, and would be easily able to make that happen.

Ergo, assuming that God exists, God necessarily has no interest in whether or not I am convinced of his existence.

Now, if we assume a literal hell, wouldn't this be a horrific moral oversight on God's end?

 

[Nithavela]

I have not been presented with convincing evidence that a god exists.

Any omniscient, omnipotent god would know exactly what would be necessary to convince me, and would be easily able to make that happen.

Ergo, assuming that God exists, God necessarily has no interest in whether or not I am convinced of his existence.

Now, if we assume a literal hell, wouldn't this be a horrific moral oversight on God's end?

The common counterargument to this is, as far as I know, that any faith coming after being presented with 100% evidence would not be the faith god desires.

 

[variant]

The common counterargument to this is, as far as I know, that any faith coming after being presented with 100% evidence would not be the faith god desires.

Which seems to be a common agreement from people who wish to convince us of God without any particularly good evidence.

God wants X
Comes after God exists

 

[Grafted In]

You sound like an unsaved person. The faith to believe in the cross, you responding to that faith and becoming born again is all the faith you will ever have until you respond to that. Only after salvation will He provide you with more faith and more evidence that He loves you.
There is no other way. At some point in your life The Father will lead you to His Son and give you faith by grace (meaning prior to salvation you do not deserve it) just big enough to repent, agree with Him that you cannot save yourself and that you need and want a Savior.
Jesus Christ died on that cross just for you, the cadet. If you will not accept His free gift of salvation you are lost. If you accept His death as atonement for your sins He with begin to change you from the inside out. You will be given the indwelling of The Holy Spirit. God's Spirit in you is the only way a person can understand the things of God. He is also the only way a person can understand the bible.
An unsaved person can read the bible and think they gain wisdom but Scripture is alive. Only when you become alive by accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior will you be given more faith, more understanding of God and most of all eternal life.

And, yes, He loves you more than you will ever know in this world.
He loves you as much as He loves every other human being that has been born.

 

[Nithavela]

You sound like an unsaved person.

The "faith: atheist" part of his header is a bit of a giveaway, isn't it?

Also, good job turning a philosophical question into preaching.

 

[Grafted In]

The "faith: atheist" part of his header is a bit of a giveaway, isn't it?

Sorry. I can't catch every detail all of the time.
I think my post was appropriate regardless.

 

[Nithavela]

Sorry. I can't catch every detail all of the time.
I think my post was appropriate regardless.

As I am not a christian, too, would you like to write something similiar to me, as well?

 

[Grafted In]

As I am not a christian, too, would you like to write something similiar to me, as well?

I would prefer that you show me the door.

 

[The Cadet]

You sound like an unsaved person. The faith to believe in the cross, you responding to that faith and becoming born again is all the faith you will ever have until you respond to that. Only after salvation will He provide you with more faith and more evidence that He loves you.

But doesn't God know that a demand of faith is simply unconvincing to me, and that no amount of appealing to what I am fairly convinced is essentially the same thing as gullibility will convince me to believe something? I'm essentially stuck - I'm not going to have faith, faith alone is never going to be convincing to me. I need something else. But more to the point, God knows this. He knows exactly what I need, even if I don't! So the fact that I don't believe indicates very clearly that God doesn't care. And if there is a literal hell, he clearly has no problems with me going there.

Jesus Christ died on that cross just for you, the cadet. If you will not accept His free gift of salvation you are lost.

I don't believe in his gift of salvation. That's the problem. If God wanted me to believe, he'd know exactly what to do to get me to believe. He hasn't done this, so I'm left wondering whether this is because God doesn't care that I'm going to go to hell, or because he doesn't exist.

And, yes, He loves you more than you will ever know in this world.

...But he still isn't willing to give me what I need to change my mind and make me believe in him? And is willing to send me to be tortured forever for not believing in him? That's a bizarre definition of love.

 

[Grafted In]

But doesn't God know that a demand of faith is simply unconvincing to me, and that no amount of appealing to what I am fairly convinced is essentially the same thing as gullibility will convince me to believe something? I'm essentially stuck - I'm not going to have faith, faith alone is never going to be convincing to me. I need something else. But more to the point, God knows this. He knows exactly what I need, even if I don't! So the fact that I don't believe indicates very clearly that God doesn't care. And if there is a literal hell, he clearly has no problems with me going there.



I don't believe in his gift of salvation. That's the problem. If God wanted me to believe, he'd know exactly what to do to get me to believe. He hasn't done this, so I'm left wondering whether this is because God doesn't care that I'm going to go to hell, or because he doesn't exist.



...But he still isn't willing to give me what I need to change my mind and make me believe in him? And is willing to send me to be tortured forever for not believing in him? That's a bizarre definition of love.

Pardon me if I lack understanding of exactly where you are belief wise, but your words indicant to me that you are not atheistic. You keep referring to God, though in anger. My understanding of atheism is a person with no regard for God at all, good or bad.
Keep expessing your contempt for Him and eventually I think He will reveal His Son to you. You're not on your way to hell yet. Perhaps He's working on you as we speak. Everyone is different. Sometimes He will allow a person to reach a point of total dispare before He responds. Don't give up.

 

[Nithavela]

Pardon me if I lack understanding of exactly where you are belief wise, but your words indicant to me that you are not atheistic. You keep referring to God, though in anger. My understanding of atheism is a person with no regard for God at all, good or bad.
Keep expessing your contempt for Him and eventually I think He will reveal His Son to you. You're not on your way to hell yet. Perhaps He's working on you as we speak. Everyone is different. Sometimes He will allow a person to reach a point of total dispare before He responds. Don't give up.

I think that cadet is talking about your god as a concept. This is the philosophy forum, after all.

 

[tatteredsoul]

I have not been presented with convincing evidence that a god exists.

Any omniscient, omnipotent god would know exactly what would be necessary to convince me, and would be easily able to make that happen.

Ergo, assuming that God exists, God necessarily has no interest in whether or not I am convinced of his existence.

Now, if we assume a literal hell, wouldn't this be a horrific moral oversight on God's end?

Some people are worse off. They actually know He exists as well as the demons, archons, aND principalities. They have come in contact with these things. They have seen His work.

Yet, they still feel like they are not a part of His life, His cares, His mind, His priority, etc. That, in my opinion, is worse than an actual atheist that truly believes He doesn't exist, and has not received convincing proof. At least that person has the peace of mind to ignore the pain of being ignored, and treat the issue as a thoughtform of philosophy.

 

[Grafted In]

I think that cadet is talking about your god as a concept. This is the philosophy forum, after all.

I'm not convinced of that.

 

[Nithavela]

I'm not convinced of that.

You know, on this board, it is forbidden to say that anyone who self-identifies himself as a christian is instead not a christian.

Maybe you should extend the same courtesy to other people, too.

 

[Grafted In]

You know, on this board, it is forbidden to say that anyone who self-identifies himself as a christian is instead not a christian.

Maybe you should extend the same courtesy to other people, too.

Well, ok. Cadet does not believe in God.
Will that suffice ?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I'm not convinced of that.

Why would anyone who believes in God take such a strong opinion against him?

 

[The Cadet]

Yet, they still feel like they are not a part of His life, His cares, His mind, His priority, etc. That, in my opinion, is worse than an actual atheist that truly believes He doesn't exist, and has not received convincing proof. At least that person has the peace of mind to ignore the pain of being ignored, and treat the issue as a thoughtform of philosophy.

...Right, for about 90 years, tops. Then they die, and while the theist who is tormented by God not caring goes to heaven, the atheist gets to burn in hell. Not exactly a great argument.

 

[Shempster]

The point of life is not to discover if God exists. If that was so, there would be detectable evidence. There is none. I am pretty sure that is part of the setup. The point and meaning of life is to discover who He is by His nature, not by a name, identity or an image. To do this, the other stuff must be hidden.He showed us His nature in how Christ lived and taught. So when you gravitate towards love He WILL respond in a way that you can't describe to others. Seriously, ask a person who feels that they have a closeness with God about it. Ask them to explain their "proof". I guarantee you'll scoff at it. It works differently for each of us.
And yes, the notion that those who miss the boat will be tortured forever in boiling flames should speak for itself. Its silly.
I will say that I those who choose evil over love in this life will probably meet their end one day tho.

 

[StanJ]

I have not been presented with convincing evidence that a god exists.

Any omniscient, omnipotent god would know exactly what would be necessary to convince me, and would be easily able to make that happen.

Ergo, assuming that God exists, God necessarily has no interest in whether or not I am convinced of his existence.

Now, if we assume a literal hell, wouldn't this be a horrific moral oversight on God's end?

The Bible tells us that his sheep know his voice so if you're not hearing his voice then obviously you don't know him. So as in anything you don't know what do you do to become familiar or educated about it? Like everything in life, if you're not interested in following the procedures entailed and learning it then you're not really interested in learning it. That you think it's up to God to prove himself to you is rather telling and signifies a very self absorbed perspective. How long do you think your relationship would work if you're that self-absorbed in it?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

The Bible tells us that his sheep know his voice so if you're not hearing his voice then obviously you don't know him. So as in anything you don't know what do you do to become familiar or educated about it? Like everything in life, if you're not interested in following the procedures entailed and learning it then you're not really interested in learning it. That you think it's up to God to prove himself to you is rather telling and signifies a very self absorbed perspective. How long do you think your relationship would work if you're that self-absorbed in it?

Is it not God who created and wants to have a relationship with each of us?