Hi all,
I'm new to the forum so please be patient with me if I'm doing anything that isn't proper on the forum. I wanted to get some clarification on 2 Peter 3:14-17. I read a few blog posts from Jesus' Words Only by Douglas del Tondo and wanted to get people's opinions and rebuttals. I know the forum has talked about him and his blog in the past so I apologize if I'm bringing up things the forum feels it has dealt with already, but some things on there seemed pretty convincing. I'm not convinced of everything the author puts forward, but I really have no way to verify if his translation of dysnoetas or "things hard to understand" in verse 15 means nonsense, in the sense that Peter was saying Paul's writings were nonsense (I know zero Greek). I'd appreciate some feedback from you all who have studied Greek. Thank you! Would love
@Der Alte perspective on this; after lurking for a while, I can tell the guy knows his stuff.
Here is the article in question:
Second Peter: Reference to Paul
The first thing that must always be at the forefront of your mind as your read the Word (or commentary of the Word) is that….
*All scripture is given by inspiration of God (
2Ti 3:16)
*By revelation of/from Jesus Christ (
Gal 1:12)
*Men of God spake as they were moved by the holy spirit (
2Pe 1:21) In other words,
not by the will of man.
With that in mind …. Anything with commentaries or what people are saying about the written Word of God is not a reflection on the writer (i.e. Paul, Peter, John …etc) … it is a reflection on the Author (God). The revelation Paul got to write the church epistles came from Jesus Christ as He was given head over all the church of God. So the question becomes …..Would it make any sense for the revelation that Peter got (from Jesus Christ) to write in
II Peter that would belittle Paul? Wouldn’t that be just belittling Jesus Christ ….for the revelation Jesus had previously given Paul?
[II Peter was written about 65 AD, which is a couple of years after the completion of the church epistles [Romans through Thessalonians] written directly to us in the “church of God”, by revelation given to Paul from Jesus Christ]
The problem is with commentators, not with the written Word. If we listen to commentators, we will be pulled in every direction that their human reasoning takes us.
Origen did some good writing…. but he also was way off in his writing to the point of bringing Plato’s theory into the (at the time) church. Historical writings can be a great asset for history regarding biblical events but that is where it should end. Any commentaries on biblical scripture are from their human reasoning and intellect …it could be right …. But most often …not! ….The Bible does interpret itself.
Understanding this area of II Peter begins with understanding to whom it is written.
JAMES Much like Hebrews was written to the Christian Jews of the dispersion, “the twelve tribes scattered abroad”. Those born again who seem to want to put themselves
under the law. 1
&2 PETER, 1,2&3 JOHN and
JUDE closely align themselves to this category also.
A better (literal) translation to 15-17 is as follows… with a little more insight after.
15) Consider also that the long-suffering of our Lord is for salvation [deliverance], even as our beloved Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
16) as also in all his epistles speaking in them concerning these things. (in them, some things are hard to be understood which the unlearned and unstable twist around as they do also the rest of the scripture unto their own destruction)
17) you therefore beloved since you have foreknown these things watch so that you are not led astray by the delusion of the lawless ones and fall from your own steadfastness.
Starting with “
in them” v16 is parenthetically designed to add more information. (see *below) …you could stop at “
things” and go right to v17.
__________________
*below … a little clarification on the bolded words of v16 within the parenthetical.
(KJV) 2Pe 3:16 As also in all
his epistles, speaking in them of these things; (in which are some things
hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable
wrest, as
they do also
the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.)
“Unto you” Not referring to
you (or those) … as of all the diaspora (dispersion) BUT to you living in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia (
1Pe 1:1) where Peter had written to the church of God in some of those areas…. and those writings included the epistles to the Ephesians, the Colossians, and to the Galatians.
Hard to be understood 16 this was especially true of the Judeans who believed ….but were still zealous of the law as stated in
Act 21:20. They were among those who wrestled with or twisted the scriptures written by Paul as well as other scriptures.
16
Wrest – definition: to twist, distort, or wrestle with.
16 The other scripture Thus, Paul’s epistles were considered to be scripture …when God had Peter write the second epistle. It is significant that God had Peter refer those among the Diaspora (in these scriptures here). To those who believed in Jesus Christ from the church epistles
written by Paul. The church epistles were written for the benefit of those in the church of God who had formally been either Judean or Gentile These readings were part of prophecy of the scripture mentioned in
2Pe 1:19 -
21
Just as with any other commentator, I am a source of reference trying to explain … check my work to validate it with what the Word says.