DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY?

MehGuy

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From my recollection most Christian parents weren't instructing their children at home on spiritual matters. They got most of it from the church and the remainder at school if they attended a religious one. There's pros and cons to that and everything you hear isn't ideal.

The thing that weirded me out about church was the notion of implied trust. Just because you showed up you're okay. But I never agreed with that. We visited a Methodist church in the past and I stopped in the children's area. They had a Sunday school and a nice setup. The kids were singing and laughing and appeared to be enjoying themselves.

The teacher looked at me and said, she'll be okay you can go. My daughter was three years old. I smiled politely and took a seat. There's no way I'd leave her with strangers while I'm elsewhere. She was a little miffed that I didn't leave. But I trust my gut.

I took her to the sanctuary after that and kept her with me. She never went to children's church. There's nothing wrong with it per se. But I would only do it when they're teens. When they're more mature and not as vulnerable. You get all types in those places and most parents are too hands-off in my opinion.

~bella

Sadly, the notion I had that Christianity glamorized suffering was instilled in me before I even first attended Sunday School. Seeing iconography of Christian saints being tortured in glorified poses was enough. A very rudimentary intake is sufficient for the damage to start.

If I ever do have any children myself, I'd prefer they never set foot in a church... realistically I cannot shield them from the enormous cultural influence the faith has. If I ever do see any hint of them glamorizing suffering, they're quickly going to see a therapist. Even then, I have low confidence regarding how well-equipped therapists are with dealing with such issues. I know the subject has been written about academically for over a 100 years.. so there has been some thought process put forth. I know how mainstream it is within those circles.

A strong promotion of secular thought though.. can help deter this.
 
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The idea of a loving God never made sense to me. Although as a kid I just thought I was too messed up to understand and feel God's love.

I never felt love from others either. Cognitively I knew others loved me and it was real to them, but it was always just felt empty to me.

It wasn't even really a negative thing for me.. more neutral. Hard to feel sad for something you don't really experience.

I do regret not being very grateful for the love that was shown to me. As an adult.. I'm still confused . but I think my thinking is at least more grounded now.

Evolutionary psychology for me .. at least was intuitive and helped me get a better grasp on love and all its nuances and different expressions.

I always liked a Simpsons scene where these aliens are telling the Simpson family that they were going to show them feelings no human being has ever experienced. Including a feeling that is 1000 times more powerful than what humans call "love".

Psychology isn't static. Who knows what kind of thought processes future humans might evolve?
If you wanted an answer this is probably not the best place. Not many are seeing it. If all you want is vent then this may work for you. I'm speaking for myself because i sort of feel as you do except for this. No explanation works for the human body and the list goes on The miracles that are before. If i agree with you then i can't be adjective. @Bella or DJ may have thoughts for you. Please continue to post here as you need too. I feel like I'm cheating you by not being able to help.:)
 
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What I have to say is that I’m sick to death of American politics. For sure, politics has always been divisive. But I don’t ever recall liberal/conservative combat being the blood sport that it's become. And it's much worse in an election year. :mad:
Agree, but what can we do about it. My answer is wrong because I'm not going to vote.
Maybe you should start a thread for answers. Thank you for your thoughts.
 
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Sadly, the notion I had that Christianity glamorized suffering was instilled in me before I even first attended Sunday School. Seeing iconography of Christian saints being tortured in glorified poses was enough. A very rudimentary intake is sufficient for the damage to start.

If I ever do have any children myself, I'd prefer they never set foot in a church... realistically I cannot shield them from the enormous cultural influence the faith has. If I ever do see any hint of them glamorizing suffering, they're quickly going to see a therapist. Even then, I have low confidence regarding how well-equipped therapists are with dealing with such issues. I know the subject has been written about academically for over a 100 years.. so there has been some thought process put forth. I know how mainstream it is within those circles.

A strong promotion of secular thought though.. can help deter this.
But on the slim chance the Christian could be right can you handle your children would burn in hell with the choice you made for them and for you for that matter?
I'm always back to the only two choices we all have.
 
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bèlla

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Sadly, the notion I had that Christianity glamorized suffering was instilled in me before I even first attended Sunday School. Seeing iconography of Christian saints being tortured in glorified poses was enough. A very rudimentary intake is sufficient for the damage to start.

Do you have similar reactions to violent images or are you only bothered by Christian depictions?

If I ever do have any children myself, I'd prefer they never set foot in a church... realistically I cannot shield them from the enormous cultural influence the faith has. If I ever do see any hint of them glamorizing suffering, they're quickly going to see a therapist.

Most believers don't have an accurate understanding of suffering or what it's meant to instill in the bearer. That's why they wrestle with hardships. A little difficulty and they're mad, complaining or shaking their fist at God. There's a dignity to suffering and those who bear it well usually do so in silence. You wouldn't know something's wrong.

That's one of the areas where the east excels and why many turn to it for guidance. They don't know how to be still, have peace, let go, etc. And the Christian example is poor. I have a penchant for the Sufi's and your comment brought something to mind.

You talk when you cease to be at peace with your thoughts;
And when you can no longer dwell in the solitude of your heart you live in your lips,
And sound is a diversion and a pastime.


This is one of the fruits of suffering. You'll have a better understanding through Gibran's writings. I think they'd resonate with you intellectually and be less offensive.

~bella
 
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I think this country would have been better off if family's always stayed together. They would never leave. When one married an addition would be added in or a separate building on the same land for the new family and so on. The traditional family is mostly gone, sadly.
 
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I had a miracle happen to me the other day. I've been suffering for over a month with an over active Bladder, That's putting it mildly. It appeared i was losing more than i was taking in. Dehydration, no energy other things. I'm not one to go to a doc so i tried to figure out what was going on so then came Paddy's day with the usual feast celebration and a few days later i was just fine, no more unusual water loss. Now put your thinking caps on. Can you figure out why the problem left? It took me a few days for me to get it.
ANYONE?
 
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bèlla

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I think this country would have been better off if family's always stayed together. They would never leave. When one married an addition would be added in or a separate building on the same land for the new family and so on. The traditional family is mostly gone, sadly.

The Amish do something similar. The family lives in the main house on the property. The house is passed on to the son and when he gets engaged a second one is built for the parents. Commonly known as a dawdy haus (pronounced doddy house).

Multigenerational housing or multi familial land is less expensive in the long run. But you need a few things in place to make it work. Most notably a commitment to the family and land. They have to be willing to stay put. You need harmony. Too much bickering takes a toll. They have to be willing to pool their resources and work together.

That's how it was long ago. Which addressed child and senior care. Unmarried children remained at home or on the property. It was easier then because work was localized. Trades were common and that's how most earned a living. Factories changed that. Now you go to work by physically leaving your home.

The most obvious impediment is financial. Working age adults would need a job close to home or opt for self-employment. If you're looking for land you're moving beyond the city and suburbs for the best prices which limit job opportunities. That's why the people doing it now are homesteaders. They supplement their income through self-employment (e.g. YouTube).

It can be done but you need to plan it out and pursue it in the right season. Namely when you're young. Gardening usually goes hand in hand and you need the physical strength to do it. My daughter and I are working towards this. We have time and proficiency on our side. I know how to grow our food and she's going to agriculture school.

The most important element of all is marriage. Managing land is a lot of work. You need hands and men. You don't have to buy anything huge but you need a man nonetheless for security and heavy lifting. Many who take that route have large families or aspire to do so.

That's the caveat no one mentions. It works for the Amish because they marry and have a lot of children and stay together. But the majority don't. Few consider the consequences of remaining alone while they age or the ramifications of divorce. Caring for seniors is a full-time job and you need help. And we're living longer.

If left to their own devices most would never choose this path. They don't want the limitations. They don't want to be stuck in one place and they look forward to the empty nest. But when you live with your family that doesn't happen. You move from one stage to the next and have greater responsibilities.

When you want that life you have to make it easier on your loved ones. Marry well and raise your children with tomorrow in mind. You need a pattern of mutual support. You have to be there for one another in good times and bad. Take care of yourself and be mindful of your health. And be wise with your finances.

Because someone has to pick up the pieces. Living recklessly and neglecting yourself wrong. Someone pays the price for your inaction and you're adding to their plate. You can't live your life on your own terms when you're relying on others. You have to be courteous.

If you don't have those kind of relatives it's hard. You'll spend a lot of time arguing and being frustrated. Most families can't live together for those reasons.

~bella
 
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bèlla

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Now put your thinking caps on. Can you figure out why the problem left? It took me a few days for me to get it.
ANYONE?

The cabbage? I'm not sure of the benefits when cooked but sauerkraut has many health benefits and aids your gut health.

~bella
 
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MehGuy

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But on the slim chance the Christian could be right can you handle your children would burn in hell with the choice you made for them and for you for that matter?
I'm always back to the only two choices we all have.

I'm not trying to be offensive, but I worry about the possibility of a Christian hell the same way you probably worry about versions of hell in other religions.

Also, I don't want them to try to psychologically try to find a connection with the idea of an all loving God and one that is also also willing to torture them for all eternity if they don't accept his love.

Not really what I was talking about regarding suffering in my previous posts in this thread .. but it's around the same ballpark.
 
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MehGuy

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Do you have similar reactions to violent images or are you only bothered by Christian depictions?

No, I did not have a similar reaction to generic violent imagery. I didn't focus on the violence; I thought suffering had divine qualities even without a violent agent. Such as suffering from acts of nature.

I'm not really worried about people glamorizing suffering from suffering images alone. At least not to the psychological depth of displaying such things as divine. Divinity isn't the only issue I worry about; in the secular world I worry about the expression of masculinity and femininity... especially feminism.

I literally thought suffering was divine and beautiful and that God created this universe and temporary life for us to experience it and become something greater. That suffering was an important ingredient. Suffering wasn't a punishment, to use it so only diminishes it. For example, I never had a concept nor drive to engage in penance. Ironically and accidentally, I believe this made my faith psychologically healthier compared to others who have experienced similar spiritualities. On the other hand, though, I think the punishment free view also tends to lend to a deeper overall romanticization of suffering and the horrible fallout one feels when they lose their faith.

This is probably partly due to the fact that my spirituality started and was rapidly expanding psychologically when all I had to rely on was the aesthetics of the faith I grew up around. This proto-Christianity I gathered largely stayed with me until I lost my faith and became an atheist.

That's one of the areas where the east excels and why many turn to it for guidance. They don't know how to be still, have peace, let go, etc. And the Christian example is poor. I have a penchant for the Sufi's and your comment brought something to mind.

You talk when you cease to be at peace with your thoughts;
And when you can no longer dwell in the solitude of your heart you live in your lips,
And sound is a diversion and a pastime.


This is one of the fruits of suffering. You'll have a better understanding through Gibran's writings. I think they'd resonate with you intellectually and be less offensive.

~bella

Thanks. I'll check Gibran out.
 
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