Covenant With Abraham "in the flesh" and Circumcision

[rwb]

Would that not come only by the new birth?
And keeping in mind that the (invisible) church, which is the body of Christ, is only the redeemed,
while the (visible) church is both wheat and tares.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the new birth.

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:5-8 (KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Many of the tares among the wheat will receive the sign of water baptism, but only those who by grace through faith in the power of the Spirit are of the eternal Covenant of Grace.

 

[Clare73]

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the new birth.

Well, that was my own personal experience.

So the disciples were born again after Jesus' resurrection when he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit." (John 20:22)?

And then Pentecost was a special infusion of the Holy Spirit for a special work?

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:5-8 (KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Many of the tares among the wheat will receive the sign of water baptism, but only those who by grace through faith in the power of the Spirit are of the eternal Covenant of Grace.

 

[rwb]

Well, that was my own personal experience.

So the disciples were born again after Jesus' resurrection when he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit." (John 20:22)?

And then Pentecost was a special infusion of the Holy Spirit for a special work?

I suppose one might put it that way. But I believe Scripture shows us that every believer, including those receiving the Spirit at Pentecost all those of saving faith are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The only difference for those who first received the Spirit at Pentecost was the accompaniment of the sign gift for speaking in unknown tongues. In the beginning the sign was needed to prove the words of Christ, and that He was the One prophesied to come.

 

[Clare73]

I suppose one might put it that way. But I believe Scripture shows us that every believer, including those receiving the Spirit at Pentecost all those of saving faith are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The only difference for those who first received the Spirit at Pentecost was the accompaniment of the sign gift for speaking in unknown tongues. In the beginning the sign was needed to prove the words of Christ, and that He was the One prophesied to come.

My question is about the disciples of John 20:22, for whom Pentecost was not the first receiving, but the second.

What was the difference for them in the two events regarding baptism by the Holy Spirit?
Were they baptized twice by the Holy Spirit?

 

[rwb]

My question is about the disciples of John 20:22, for whom Pentecost was not the first receiving, but the second.

What was the difference for them in the two events regarding baptism by the Holy Spirit?
Were they baptized twice by the Holy Spirit?

That's a really good question. Was it a second receiving of what they already possessed? Or since they had already received the Spirit from Christ, Pentecost was a demonstration of His power in them? They needed the Spirit once Christ had departed, because initially the power they had to heal the sick, and cast out demons came through Christ.

Luke 10:9 (KJV) And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Luke 10:19 (KJV) Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Mark 6:7 (KJV) And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
Mark 6:13 (KJV) And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

I would think they would need the breath of God giving them spiritual life though the Spirit to keep them until Pentecost when they would again be indwelt with power from on high. Because after Pentecost we again read of the mighty wonders and signs done by the apostles.

Acts 2:43 (KJV) And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

 

[Mr. M]

My question is about the disciples of John 20:22, for whom Pentecost was not the first receiving, but the second.

The Holy Spirit enduing with power was not possible until after the ascension. However, He is also the comforter. The apostles had just been through what
was no doubt a most traumatic experience, and in need of restoration,
especially Peter because of the denial.

These scriptures should clarify the issue.
Endued With Power
John 7:
38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart
will flow rivers of living water.
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him
would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because
Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself,
with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Luke 22:69 Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand
of the power of God.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, Do not cling to Me, for I have not
yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,
I am ascending to My Father and your Father,
and to My God and your God.

Luke 24:49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you;
but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with
power from on high.

Now, the Lord speaks of immersion in the Spirit.
Acts 1:
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not
to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father,
which, He said, you have heard from Me;
5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized
with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come
upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in
all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

Hebrews 1:3 Who is the brightness of his glory, and the express image
of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he
had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the
Majesty on high.

 

[rwb]

The Holy Spirit enduing with power was not possible until after the ascension. However, He is also the comforter. The apostles had just been through what
was no doubt a most traumatic experience, and in need of restoration,
especially Peter because of the denial.

These scriptures should clarify the issue.
Endued With Power
John 7:
38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart
will flow rivers of living water.
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him
would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because
Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself,
with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Luke 22:69 Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand
of the power of God.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, Do not cling to Me, for I have not
yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,
I am ascending to My Father and your Father,
and to My God and your God.

Luke 24:49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you;
but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with
power from on high.

Now, the Lord speaks of immersion in the Spirit.
Acts 1:
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not
to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father,
which, He said, you have heard from Me;
5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized
with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come
upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in
all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

Hebrews 1:3 Who is the brightness of his glory, and the express image
of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he
had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the
Majesty on high.

What a wonderful response Minister Monardo! Thank you for reminding me of the power of the Spirit to be our Comforter. Blessings

 

[Mr. M]

What a wonderful response Minister Monardo! Thank you for reminding me of the power of the Spirit to be our Comforter. Blessings

I once received an overwhelming spirit of empathy
for Peter while listening to Jesus Christ Superstar,
when he and Mary Mag sing a duet after the Lord's
arrest.
"Before this gets too frightening, could we
call a halt, and could we start again, please...
I think you've made your point now...."
I started weeping so hard that I completely freaked
out a friend I was hanging out with that day. What
the apostles experienced was truly horrifying and
heart rending!
Luke 22:
28 But you are those who have continued
with Me in My trials.

 

[Davy]

I'm not sure I understand your contention. When I read the OP I get no sense of "a flesh circumcision requirement as part of Faith on The New Covenant Jesus Christ"

Basically then, that would mean you skipped this...

Minister Monardo said:

The everlasting covenant with Abram became a most controversial and divisive issue
for the New Testament congregations. In Genesis 17 God changed Abram’s name to
Abraham to establish His everlasting covenant with him. God commanded that
circumcision of every male be the token of that covenant.

The apostle Paul was tasked by the Holy Spirit to set this issue in order for the church,
and it is addressed extensively in his letters. The key to a right understanding is in the
verse included: my covenant shall be in your flesh. The Law of Moses included commandments pertaining to circumcision, while also acknowledging there was a spiritual component to a full understanding of the covenant law.

Notice that part in red. Uh-uh, no-no.

Apostle Paul in Galatians 3 and Romans 4 revealed that the Promise by Faith God gave to Abraham was NOT by any token of flesh circumcision. And THAT is the point, because that Promise by Faith is The Gospel of Jesus Christ, even as Paul also revealed there.

But did God afterwards give Abraham a 'token' of circumcision? Yeah, but NOT PRIOR TO, nor WHEN the Promise by Faith was given. The ultimate point then, is that flesh circumcision and the law NEVER was a part of God's Promise by Faith to Abraham. That is what Paul wants us to understand. And many brethren in Christ do make that mistake, because they think since that Promise was given in The Old Testament times, they automatically think that was about the giving of the old covenant, when it was not. It was about God giving Abraham The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[BABerean2]

This is a good question, but to focus only on this one passage might give one a faulty understanding of the answer.

When we look at Acts 22:16, Acts 8:36, 1 Peter 3:20-21, and Eph 5:25-26; and then consider what is said in Rom 6:1-4 and Col 2:11-14 about the actions of the Spirit during baptism, the only conclusion we can reach is that New Testament baptism is in water during which the Spirit acts to remove our sin through the power and authority of Jesus’ blood.

We must remember that there is only ONE author of Scripture: the Holy Spirit. The men who put pen to paper were just ghost writers. The Bible is one consistent message. Yes, it has different writers and different audiences for different parts of it and understanding that helps our understanding of the overall message, but taking one passage (like Eph 4:1-5) and ignoring other passages (like the ones cited above) that shed greater light on the meaning of that passage leads to misunderstandings that can leave souls lost.

That is what happened in this case.
Looking at 1 Pet 3 we see that it explicitly says that water baptism is the point at which we are saved.
Looking at Eph 5 we see that it is through washing of water (baptism) that Christ makes the Church pure and spotless by the power of His blood.
Looking at Acts 8 we understand that water baptism must have been part of the Gospel story shared by Phillip, because it is the Eunuch who asks for baptism in water as they are passing some.
In Acts 22 we see that Ananias told Paul to get up and be baptized (if it were Spirit baptism it could have been done where he sat) and that Paul was still in his sin even after having believed three days before.

Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says?

What did Peter say below?


Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water when they read the word "baptize" in the text. Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage?


Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


“baptize” KJV



Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:



Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.



Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:



Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;



Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.



1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.