Christianity, Comics & Paganism: Is Comic Art Being used to Bring Back the Old Ways?

[Gxg (G²)]

I was writing this due to how it seems that there seems to be a shift/trend I've noticed in the world of comics....and that shift that I never picked up on was how many of the comics, be it DC or Marvel or others, have had worldviews heavily pushed in theme that are very much focused upon theology discussions which make it seem as if those theologies of the Old Ways/Paganism are normal and to be considered alongsie Christianity as if they are simply ways of expressing the world that are valid. There was a book I read recently on the subject that really had me processing, entitled The Barbarian Conversion: from Paganism to Christianity--

​

For more, one can click here or here. Fletcher's history covers the years from the 200's AD, beginning with the earliest European missionary, Gregory Thaumaturgis, until 1386, when Lithuania was brought into the fold--just 1100 years to convert all of Europe from Iberia to Greenland, Iceland and the British Isles to Scandinavia and the Baltics from their tribalism, provincialism, and paganism to Christianity, kingdoms, Latin, Roman law, and a sense that the entire region was a whole. It was truly brilliant to consider the ways in which Paganism tended to fade away as Christianity took more influence in converting the kings of the nations and making Christianity more wide-spread legally....while the pagan views either adapted by taking the names of their gods/changing them to fit "Christian" ones or choosing to lay low until a time they could spring back forth again....subverting things subtely under the radar before anyone would notice and see how there was transformation from the inside out. For when it was about survival, it was best to find ways to co-opt the dominant religion by saying that all of those involved were akin to the minority religion in small ways.

And in many ways, it seems like this is happening again in an era where Christianity used to be dominant around the world and yet has been slowly losing influence...with the pagan view seeming to reinsert itself in differing ways we all grew up with.



In example, the film "Thor" that recently came out is something to consider. Over the centuries, Norse mythology, like its Greek and Roman counterparts, has been appropriated by artists seeking to enlighten as well as by those with the more modest goal of providing entertainment. Based on the exploits of the titular Marvel Comics superhero, "Thor" (Paramount) falls satisfyingly into the latter category.

For the Christian audiences who too quickly dismiss the film for its focus on pagan mythology, they should be aware the movie very clearly explains its Norse pantheon is made of neither gods nor angels nor demons. In fact, there's almost nothing pagan about "Thor" at all.

Instead, the characters Odin, Thor and Loki are portrayed in the film as an alien race of superior technology who visited Earth 1,000 years ago and whose "powers" were only mistaken for divinity. When the aliens returned home, they became objects of worship, myth and legend among the Norse people.

"Once mankind accepted a simple truth," the movie states, "we are not alone in this universe." The quote carries a double meaning here, both in the idea that there are aliens out there, but also, as the aliens are Norse "gods," that there is God out there too. It's a clever line, for it sets up a recurring theme of the clash between believing in the supernatural and our more modern, "scientific" insistence on only accepting the natural, empirically provable as truth. Along those lines, one of the women in the film quotes, "Magic is just science we don't understand yet." Thor later explains, "Your ancestors called it magic. You call it science. I come from a place where they are one and the same." Is she right? Or are there things naturalist "science" can't explain?

As said best in one review called CCAS MOVIE REVIEW: Thor - Christian Comic Arts Society:

In addition to being a fun action movie, Thor also contains underlying spiritual themes for those who are looking for them. Though Thor and the other Asgardians have often been seen as pagan deities, the Marvel comics and the film tend to treat them differently. The comics have described the Asgardians simply as aliens who are so advanced that their technology is indistinguishable from magic, even to themselves. The movie echoes this sentiment when Thor tells Jane that he comes from a place where science and magic are the same thing. Thor and the other Asgardians in this film do not necessarily consider themselves gods; rather, the universe in which they exist tries to blend science and the supernatural together. In this day and age of intellectualism and faithlessness, Jane's fellow scientists are initially skeptical that Thor could actually be supernatural. However, Jane's encounters with Thor stretch the limits of her belief, and at one point she finds herself arguing that the existence of the supernatural isn't such a foolish idea and doesn't necessarily have to contradict intellectualism. She is later proven correct when Thor's full godlike powers return to him on display for all to see. Thor is a film which advocates a reasonable belief in the supernatural and in things or beings which we cannot see or fully explain.

​

​

For other good places for review:

• Religion ofThor (Donald Blake )
• The Mighty Thor! | The American Catholic
• The Kenosis of Thor & The Kenosis of Christ | The Two Cities
• Random Musings from a Doctor's Chair: Movie Review on Thor (2011

__________________

​

The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Micro ...​

Avengers - Earth's Mightiest Heroes Episode 25 [1/2] The Fall of Asgard​

The Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes episode 25 part 2/2 HD ​

__________________​

As a big comic books fan growing up, it really bothered me to see how much it seems there was truly a heavy amount of worldviews being pushed via comics that seems to slowly indoctrinate others to going back into things akin to what occurred with Christianity when encountering Barbarian peoples..with the viewpoints of the Barbarians being reinterpreted to seem as if they're valid.​

And for any of those who are avid lovers of comics, I'm curious if you've noticed the same. Do you feel that within comics there is a push toward barbarianism and the Old Gods of Myth/legend----with Neo Paganism coming back into view as opposed to Christianity having dominance in the media? Or are those seeing such reading into things? And if it Barbarianism being pushed, is it appropriate for believers to use such things like the media outlet to make room for discussion to occur?​

I greatly wish to get involved in the world of comics and using them for the glory of the Lord--but I do feel that it seems to be a bit dangerous at times when it seems like there's so much theology being pushed through the comic world...where science, magic, aliens, and even God/angels co-exist in a way that says all things are equal/can be explained in natural ways. Growing up, it was something I never really considered since it was always about the artwork and the love of imaginary heros that got my attention---but again, there are some things which are hard not to notice as you get older....and see the ways some comics can actually open you up to other things you're normally against.

For some excellent sites documenting the many religions depicted within the world of comics (including worship of other deities) and how even Christianity has been touched by them, one can go here to the following:​

• God in Marvel Comics
• Jesus in the Marvel Universe
• Norse/Teutonic Paganism comic book excerpts
• religion of deities, gods, goddesses, demi-gods in comic books
• Norse/Teutonic Paganism Superheroes, Villains, Other Comic Book ...

Also, as the people from "Boundless Webzine" said best in their review:

As C.S. Lewis sarcastically wrote:

Avoid silence, avoid solitude, avoid any train of thought that leads off the beaten track. Concentrate on money, sex, status, health and (above all) on your own grievances. Keep the radio on. Live in a crowd. Use plenty of sedation. If you must read books, select them very carefully. But you'd be safer to stick to the papers. You'll find the advertisements helpful; especially those with a sexy or a snobbish appeal. (Christian Reflections, pp. 168-169)​

​

The Christian community must do a better job of showing people how to ask the questions that make a person media literate. If we are indeed the "royal priesthood" that we are described as, then our job description includes the command of Ezekiel 44:23, "They are to teach my people the difference between the holy and the common and show them how to distinguish between the unclean and the clean."

We must live not as passive sponges but as mindful agents. As Bill Romanowski (author and Calvin College professor) says, "There's some good stuff out there and lots of bad stuff and, if people are going to live as mature Christians, they're going to have to learn to tell the difference."​

Every book has a perspective. Every TV show was written, directed and produced by people with perspectives and worldviews. Every article of every magazine that sits on the shelves of our local bookstore or airport gift shop has a perspective. And yes, every movie that hits the silver screen has a worldview driving it.​

Our call is not to abandon the media, but to make ourselves "priests" of the culture and help our brothers and sisters in Christ understand that "it's never just a movie."​

​

If anyone here has had some of the same battles, I'd greatly appreciate it

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Something I wanted to mention earlier, on the issue of comics touching upon Biblical themes, is that I find it interesting that Superman and his parents all had the title el in their names. Superman was Kal El. His father was Jor El and his mother was Lara Jor El.

Others have often said that Christ Himself was the Original "Superman"....and even the recent movie known as "Superman Returns" was done with explicit references to the role that the Son of God played in the world....as Kal-El was sent to save the Earth/be above those who were mortals for their own good, even though he was raised among them.

For more information, I'd recommended going to "Plugged In Online.com" and look up the movie review known as "Superman Returns" ( )

As said there, for an excerpt:​

Much has been made over the years about the links between the Superman mythology and the story of Jesus. Director Bryan Singer avoids any subtlety in creating those connections afresh. Early in the film, we hear Jor-El telling his son, "Even though you've been raised as a human being you're not one of them. They can be a great people, Kal-El. They wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all—their capacity for good—I have sent them you, my only son."


And Singer's story piles on obvious nods to Jesus' story throughout the film. Lois and Superman discuss at length whether she and the world need a savior. He tells her that with his god-like listening powers, he hears people crying out for one every day. The climactic battle with Lex Luthor escalates the connection. In an effort not to give too much away, let's just say Superman is attacked in a manner similar to the account of Jesus' death and then experiences a kind of resurrection. At one point, he even assumes the physical position of Christ on the cross as he sacrifices himself to save humanity.

Singer, who is Jewish, doesn't deny the connections between Superman and Jesus, but his statements make clear that he doesn't intend the film as any kind of explicitly Christian story. (And the story's hints at Superman's sexual indiscretions lend credence to his case.) Still, many Christians will make use of the similarities as a springboard to point people to the good news of Jesus. In his new book called The Gospel According to the World's Greatest Superhero, author Stephen Skelton goes to great lengths to reveal how writers for Superman comics, radio scripts, TV shows and movies have intentionally modeled the Man of Steel after the Man of Sorrows. He points out that the "El" in Jor-El and Kal-El can also be seen as the Hebrew name for God. He references the phenomenon of Superman's death and resurrection in the comic book series in the early '90s. In fact, he says in the intro to his book, "I know who Superman really is," explicitly referencing the greatest hero as a picture of Jesus Christ.

​

Additionally, one must be a comic buff to realize the basic reality that even with comic books, there's a reason why they portray things as they do many times. And there've been many discussions on the issue for ages. There's a theory that the reason people made comics was due to the reality of how many concepts/ideas they could not say publically and get serious consideration...so they decided to make a story about it/engage people in the realm of the imagination so that people would be more open to differing views. On the issue of Superman/Super-Heros, the other reality is that many of the things they bring up (i.e. differing worlds/planets, super-human beings of many kinds, etc) is due to the fact that there was indeed a good bit of truth in what occurs in reality when it comes to examining folklore/mythology and the origins of man....alongside the reality of the Spiritual realm. In a way, some were trying to prepare us for what may occur in the future...

​

It's always interesting to see how many seem to find alot of Christian themes within comics....

For anyone else interested, here's some more information about the ways that comics have been used to show religious themes and even touching upon Christianity/Messianic Judaism while also showing other religions as equal:

• Zauriel - DC Comics Database
• The religion of Wonder Woman, Princess Diana
• Gods (DC Comics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• What had happen' was.....: Christian Images and DC Comics
• Journal of Religion and Film: Superman as Christ-Figure: The ...
• Superman Returns — as a Christ figure! « The Teeming Brain
• The religion of Zauriel, an angel who joined the Justice League
• dc comics - Are the gods in the DC universe actually Gods/Deities ...
• Graven Images: Religion in Comic Books and Graphic Novels - Page 219
• The Gospel according to superheroes: religion and pop culture - Page 83

One can also investigate "Female, Muslim, and Mutant: A Critique of Muslim Women in Comic Books" (Part 1) and Female, Muslim, and Mutant: A Critique of Muslim Women in Comic ...(Part 2)--and One can go here, for more, in regards to Islamic characters within comics that've been depicted.


When I was discussing the issue elsewhere, this is something another noted to me:

My two cents: I think it depends on how the 'pagan' creations are used. You quoted C. S. Lewis. Well, in Prince Caspian one of the characters was the god Bacchus, and dryads and naiads (nature goddesses) appear throughout the Chronicles. But he used them in a way where they were pointing towards God as Lord. Lewis was a big proponent, along with Tolkien, of the fact that there were bits of 'truth' in ancient pagan beliefs that pointed towards Christ. St. Paul pointed towards the fact that the Greeks worshiped 'The Unknown God' and revealed to them that the god was Christ. And, while I only heard this peripherally, I heard that the native peoples of Alaska welcomed Orthodox missionaries because their shamans had prophesied that the full truth would be brought to them by men with beards and crosses - the Alaskan natives saw the missionaries as fulfilling their own beliefs.


I would say that secular beliefs that have made 'the self' into a god are more dangerous. At least in pagan beliefs they are acknowledging that there is a higher power in the universe. Secularism is all about 'you'.

​

 

[from scratch]

I was writing this due to how it seems that there seems to be a shift/trend I've noticed in the world of comics....and that shift that I never picked up on was how many of the comics, be it DC or Marvel or others, have had worldviews heavily pushed in theme that are very much focused upon theology discussions which make it seem as if those theologies of the Old Ways/Paganism are normal and to be considered alongsie Christianity as if they are simply ways of expressing the world that are valid. There was a book I read recently on the subject that really had me processing, entitled The Barbarian Conversion: from Paganism to Christianity--

​

For more, one can click here or here. Fletcher's history covers the years from the 200's AD, beginning with the earliest European missionary, Gregory Thaumaturgis, until 1386, when Lithuania was brought into the fold--just 1100 years to convert all of Europe from Iberia to Greenland, Iceland and the British Isles to Scandinavia and the Baltics from their tribalism, provincialism, and paganism to Christianity, kingdoms, Latin, Roman law, and a sense that the entire region was a whole. It was truly brilliant to consider the ways in which Paganism tended to fade away as Christianity took more influence in converting the kings of the nations and making Christianity more wide-spread legally....while the pagan views either adapted by taking the names of their gods/changing them to fit "Christian" ones or choosing to lay low until a time they could spring back forth again....subverting things subtely under the radar before anyone would notice and see how there was transformation from the inside out. For when it was about survival, it was best to find ways to co-opt the dominant religion by saying that all of those involved were akin to the minority religion in small ways.

And in many ways, it seems like this is happening again in an era where Christianity used to be dominant around the world and yet has been slowly losing influence...with the pagan view seeming to reinsert itself in differing ways we all grew up with.



In example, the film "Thor" that recently came out is something to consider. Over the centuries, Norse mythology, like its Greek and Roman counterparts, has been appropriated by artists seeking to enlighten as well as by those with the more modest goal of providing entertainment. Based on the exploits of the titular Marvel Comics superhero, "Thor" (Paramount) falls satisfyingly into the latter category.

For the Christian audiences who too quickly dismiss the film for its focus on pagan mythology, they should be aware the movie very clearly explains its Norse pantheon is made of neither gods nor angels nor demons. In fact, there's almost nothing pagan about "Thor" at all.

Instead, the characters Odin, Thor and Loki are portrayed in the film as an alien race of superior technology who visited Earth 1,000 years ago and whose "powers" were only mistaken for divinity. When the aliens returned home, they became objects of worship, myth and legend among the Norse people.

"Once mankind accepted a simple truth," the movie states, "we are not alone in this universe." The quote carries a double meaning here, both in the idea that there are aliens out there, but also, as the aliens are Norse "gods," that there is God out there too. It's a clever line, for it sets up a recurring theme of the clash between believing in the supernatural and our more modern, "scientific" insistence on only accepting the natural, empirically provable as truth. Along those lines, one of the women in the film quotes, "Magic is just science we don't understand yet." Thor later explains, "Your ancestors called it magic. You call it science. I come from a place where they are one and the same." Is she right? Or are there things naturalist "science" can't explain?

As said best in one review called CCAS MOVIE REVIEW: Thor - Christian Comic Arts Society:

In addition to being a fun action movie, Thor also contains underlying spiritual themes for those who are looking for them. Though Thor and the other Asgardians have often been seen as pagan deities, the Marvel comics and the film tend to treat them differently. The comics have described the Asgardians simply as aliens who are so advanced that their technology is indistinguishable from magic, even to themselves. The movie echoes this sentiment when Thor tells Jane that he comes from a place where science and magic are the same thing. Thor and the other Asgardians in this film do not necessarily consider themselves gods; rather, the universe in which they exist tries to blend science and the supernatural together. In this day and age of intellectualism and faithlessness, Jane's fellow scientists are initially skeptical that Thor could actually be supernatural. However, Jane's encounters with Thor stretch the limits of her belief, and at one point she finds herself arguing that the existence of the supernatural isn't such a foolish idea and doesn't necessarily have to contradict intellectualism. She is later proven correct when Thor's full godlike powers return to him on display for all to see. Thor is a film which advocates a reasonable belief in the supernatural and in things or beings which we cannot see or fully explain.

​

For other good places for review:

• Religion ofThor (Donald Blake )
• The Mighty Thor! | The American Catholic
• The Kenosis of Thor & The Kenosis of Christ | The Two Cities
• Random Musings from a Doctor's Chair: Movie Review on Thor (2011

__________________

The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Micro ...​

Avengers - Earth's Mightiest Heroes Episode 25 [1/2] The Fall of Asgard​

The Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes episode 25 part 2/2 HD ​

__________________​

As a big comic books fan growing up, it really bothered me to see how much it seems there was truly a heavy amount of worldviews being pushed via comics that seems to slowly indoctrinate others to going back into things akin to what occurred with Christianity when encountering Barbarian peoples..with the viewpoints of the Barbarians being reinterpreted to seem as if they're valid.​

And for any of those who are avid lovers of comics, I'm curious if you've noticed the same. Do you feel that within comics there is a push toward barbarianism and the Old Gods of Myth/legend----with Neo Paganism coming back into view as opposed to Christianity having dominance in the media? Or are those seeing such reading into things? And if it Barbarianism being pushed, is it appropriate for believers to use such things like the media outlet to make room for discussion to occur?​

I greatly wish to get involved in the world of comics and using them for the glory of the Lord--but I do feel that it seems to be a bit dangerous at times when it seems like there's so much theology being pushed through the comic world...where science, magic, aliens, and even God/angels co-exist in a way that says all things are equal/can be explained in natural ways. Growing up, it was something I never really considered since it was always about the artwork and the love of imaginary heros that got my attention---but again, there are some things which are hard not to notice as you get older....and see the ways some comics can actually open you up to other things you're normally against.

For some excellent sites documenting the many religions depicted within the world of comics (including worship of other deities) and how even Christianity has been touched by them, one can go here to the following:​

• God in Marvel Comics
• Jesus in the Marvel Universe
• Norse/Teutonic Paganism comic book excerpts
• religion of deities, gods, goddesses, demi-gods in comic books
• Norse/Teutonic Paganism Superheroes, Villains, Other Comic Book ...

Also, as the people from "Boundless Webzine" said best in their review:

As C.S. Lewis sarcastically wrote:

Avoid silence, avoid solitude, avoid any train of thought that leads off the beaten track. Concentrate on money, sex, status, health and (above all) on your own grievances. Keep the radio on. Live in a crowd. Use plenty of sedation. If you must read books, select them very carefully. But you'd be safer to stick to the papers. You'll find the advertisements helpful; especially those with a sexy or a snobbish appeal. (Christian Reflections, pp. 168-169)​

​

The Christian community must do a better job of showing people how to ask the questions that make a person media literate. If we are indeed the "royal priesthood" that we are described as, then our job description includes the command of Ezekiel 44:23, "They are to teach my people the difference between the holy and the common and show them how to distinguish between the unclean and the clean."

We must live not as passive sponges but as mindful agents. As Bill Romanowski (author and Calvin College professor) says, "There's some good stuff out there and lots of bad stuff and, if people are going to live as mature Christians, they're going to have to learn to tell the difference."​

Every book has a perspective. Every TV show was written, directed and produced by people with perspectives and worldviews. Every article of every magazine that sits on the shelves of our local bookstore or airport gift shop has a perspective. And yes, every movie that hits the silver screen has a worldview driving it.​

Our call is not to abandon the media, but to make ourselves "priests" of the culture and help our brothers and sisters in Christ understand that "it's never just a movie."​

​

If anyone here has had some of the same battles, I'd greatly appreciate it

There is no daoubt in my mind about the very powerful influence of these movies. What bothers me even more is the destruction that occurs withing the organized church concerning our belief in God. It is witnessed here all the time.

I have personally witnessed the willing ness of the clergy to go on and on about this psuedo religious stuff While not discussing the Bible. Makes one wonder.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

There is no daoubt in my mind about the very powerful influence of these movies. What bothers me even more is the destruction that occurs withing the organized church concerning our belief in God. It is witnessed here all the time.

I have personally witnessed the willing ness of the clergy to go on and on about this psuedo religious stuff While not discussing the Bible. Makes one wonder.

Interesting. Could you give some examples of what it is that you're discussing? What was it you witnessed in specific? To be clear, I don't doubt you at all, as I was just wanting claritiy.

I agree that the influence of film (and comics) is indeed powerful---and prior to both, the influence of books. What C.S Lewis and JR. Tolkien did with "Chronicles of Narnia" and "Lord of the Rings" still astounds me when seeing how many, Christian and Non-Christian alike, quote from it and treat it as if it's on the same level as the scriptures.....and even for those who don't glorify it, many have noted how they have just as much power as any comic book today in getting a theme across.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

The mythic stories of the gods are classics and probably related to archetypal patterns common to the human mind . They aren't going to be disappearing any time soon. Probably not something we could destroy or purge even if we wanted too. They would just come back again with a new name.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

If someone said they were going to destroy the archetypal love story or hero myth they would certainly have a lot of work ahead of them lol. Even in the Christian medieval period the stories continued to be told under the names of mythologized saints.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The mythic stories of the gods are classics and probably related to archetypal patterns common to the human mind . They aren't going to be disappearing any time soon. Probably not something we could destroy or purge even if we wanted too. They would just come back again with a new name.

Curious as to what you mean by archetypal patterns, for are you saying that it's natural for men to think in terms of "gods"/"goddesses" and therefore it'll always come back? Or are you saying that people have a natural need to create superheros whom they can worship--just as it was with older religions when they did the same (abeit, without the use of comics..even though they utilize imagery/the arts to spread folklore)?

And are believers not to speak out against things? Or should they leave it be/simply use it as a springboard to discuss the fullness of Christ?

If someone said they were going to destroy the archetypal love story or hero myth they would certainly have a lot of work ahead of them lol. Even in the Christian medieval period the stories continued to be told under the names of mythologized saints.

Real

There was actually a film I once saw for my "Worldviews" class in highschool entitled "The Mists of Avalon"--a movie that retells the legend of King Arthur as perceived by the women central to the tale, from the zealous Morgaine, sworn to uphold her goddess at any cost, to the devout Gwenhwyfar, pledged to the king but drawn to another. The movie was centered on discussing what occurred during the time of Christianity spreading and others in pagan worldviews competing for dominance....and how the end of the movie saw the death of King Arthur at the hands of his son while his sister (a student of Paganism) was saddened...till she went into a Catholic Monastery and saw a statue of Mary and felt the Earth Goddess she used to worship had taken on a different form within Christianity.

The mists of Avalon part 18 last part​

 

[MrPolo]

And for any of those who are avid lovers of comics, I'm curious if you've noticed the same. Do you feel that within comics there is a push toward barbarianism and the Old Gods of Myth/legend----with Neo Paganism coming back into view as opposed to Christianity having dominance in the media?

It depends on the comic. And it depends on whether or not the story presents itself as fiction or fiction inspired by truth, like some pagan Da Vinci Code sort of work. I notice some of the stuff in comics that are positive too. I'm Catholic and if you recall in X-Men 2, the character Nightcrawler prays the Rosary and says the Our Father when in peril. In the recent X-Men: First Class, the character Banshee crosses himself prior to taking his first flight. So those are positive influences favorable to Christianity. Stuff based on old mythology doesn't bother me per se. Just as St. Paul praised the Greek poets for the truth they had, some ancient mythologies sometimes depicted with some truth the concept of good versus evil, or a singular master deity, or some other such parallel to divine revelation in Christianity. After all, God did reveal Himself through nature and other ways even to Gentiles prior to Christ, according even to Scripture! (Rom 1:19ff)

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It depends on the comic. And it depends on whether or not the story presents itself as fiction or fiction inspired by truth, like some pagan Da Vinci Code sort of work. I notice some of the stuff in comics that are positive too. I'm Catholic and if you recall in X-Men 2, the character Nightcrawler prays the Rosary and says the Our Father when in peril.

Good points. Within the comics, I've always been glad that Nightcrawler was a Devout Catholic and brought Christian themes to the table with his faith impacting his life as a believer.

In the recent X-Men: First Class, the character Banshee crosses himself prior to taking his first flight. So those are positive influences favorable to Christianity.

I would think in the case of Banshee that it was more so an issue of simply being religious since his other actions in the film didn't seem so devout.

Stuff based on old mythology doesn't bother me per se. Just as St. Paul praised the Greek poets for the truth they had, some ancient mythologies sometimes depicted with some truth the concept of good versus evil, or a singular master deity, or some other such parallel to divine revelation in Christianity. After all, God did reveal Himself through nature and other ways even to Gentiles prior to Christ, according even to Scripture! (Rom 1:19ff)

 

[Rick Otto]

I read The Barbarian Conversion, too! great book.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I read The Barbarian Conversion, too! great book.

Good to know!! Was there anything within it that stood out to you?

 

[Rick Otto]

Fletcher was able to tell the whole story in a way that barely hinted he is Protestant.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Fletcher was able to tell the whole story in a way that barely hinted he is Protestant.

Sad to think many would not even consider that Protestants are not only for Protestant thought

 

[Rick Otto]

You should hear the shrill protests about Garry Wills not realy being RC whenever I quote from his book,"Papal Sin - Structures of Deceit" as if there can be no loyal opposition of any substance.
Amazon.com: Papal Sin: Structures of Deceit (9780385494113): Garry Wills: Books

 

[Theofane]

Survival of the fittest in the marketplace of ideas.

 

[Rick Otto]

Survival of the fittest in the marketplace of ideas.

...heard that.
BTW, my wife bought a print of what you're using for your avatar. She's mad at the artist for making more prints available than he promised.
I call it the "Jesus & Bruce Springsteen" picture.
It's on the wall to the right of our flatscreen TV. I like it.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

You should hear the shrill protests about Garry Wills not realy being RC whenever I quote from his book,"Papal Sin - Structures of Deceit" as if there can be no loyal opposition of any substance.
Amazon.com: Papal Sin: Structures of Deceit (9780385494113): Garry Wills: Books

Excellent book resource and thanks for letting me know about it..

I think many often assume that because many lead a movement into error that all loyal to the movement support it--and only those OUTSIDE of the movement are against it. It's why I was greatly bothered growing up whenever others would focus solely on people within the Protestant Reformation and assume they were the FIRST of their kinds to understand what they did, yet many literally had NO idea that others within the Catholic church had the same ideas.

In example, I'm reminded of others such as Desiderius Erasmus . Erasmus supported Luther while trying to get him to realize that not all aspects of Catholic ideology were wrong. While he agreed with some of Luther’s points, especially in relation to the immorality of many in the Catholic Church, he firmly disagreed with Luther’s virulent attack on good deeds. In an effort to combat him, Erasmus wrote the following little parable:

A father lifts up a child who has fallen and has not yet strength to walk, however much it tries, and show it an apple which lies over against it; the child longs to run, but on account of the weakness of its limbs it would have fallen had not its father held its hand and steadied its footsteps, so that led by its father it obtains the apple which the father willingly puts in its hand as a reward for running. The child could not have stood up if the father had not lifted it, could not have seen the apple had the father not shown it, could not advance unless the father had all the time assisted its feeble steps, could not graps the apple had the father not put it into his hand. What, then, can the infant claim for itself? And yet it does something. But it has nothing to glory about in its powers, for it owes its very self to its father. (Erasmus, On the Freedom of the Will)

​

​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Survival of the fittest in the marketplace of ideas.

So true..

 

[Rick Otto]

I think many often assume that because many lead a movement into error that all loyal to the movement support it--and only those OUTSIDE of the movement are against it.

Exactly. It took introducing the "anti-hero" & sad/bad endings to educate the average TV/movie audience enough to understand character complexity.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Exactly. It took introducing the "anti-hero" & sad/bad endings to educate the average TV/movie audience enough to understand character complexity.

Never considered that before, as it concerns how the concept of anti-hero themes were what really helped others consider how many of the other aspects to spirituality/religious camps may have had similar dynamics occurring....