Christian Marriage

[Edial]

Yes, but Christ is perfect and the church is sinful. Are husbands perfect and wives sinful?

...

... good one ... (slinking outta here).

 

[Edial]

I always have the last word, which is "Yes dear."

 

[Edial]

I dont care how any of you handle the issue of submission.....thats just my opinion.

Its like debating the temperature at which you like your coffee

Excellent, excellent comment.

Husbands are told to love their wives and wives to submit ... and both to respect each other.

As love is something that flows naturally, so is submission and respect.

All this is a matter of changing own philosophy, confessing to God and praying He "fixes" it.
And He DOES.

None of it can be forced.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

 

[Conservativation]

Excellent, excellent comment.

Husbands are told to love their wives and wives to submit ... and both to respect each other.

As love is something that flows naturally, so is submission and respect.

All this is a matter of changing own philosophy, confessing to God and praying He "fixes" it.
And He DOES.

None of it can be forced.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

The rest , beyond my own life and sphere, seems to me so much a portmanteau of "psychology" or "psychoanalysis" and "babble", a form of prose using jargon, buzzwords and highly esoteric language derivations to give an impression of plausibility through mystification, misdirection, and obfuscation, almost the means by which people talk about themselves without revealing anything

 

[Edial]

The rest , beyond my own life and sphere, seems to me so much a portmanteau of "psychology" or "psychoanalysis" and "babble", a form of prose using jargon, buzzwords and highly esoteric language derivations to give an impression of plausibility through mystification, misdirection, and obfuscation, almost the means by which people talk about themselves without revealing anything

Gotta get my dictionary ... ... but I got the "psycho" part though ...

 

[chaz345]

As love is something that flows naturally, so is submission and respect.

All this is a matter of changing own philosophy, confessing to God and praying He "fixes" it.
And He DOES.

None of it can be forced.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

Not so sure I agree with the flows naturally part. It takes consious effort to express love and to show respect. It also sometimes takes effort to receive them. That's where I think a lot of marriages go sideways. The participants expect that love and respect and all manner of other things just happen naturally but the reality is that not only do we have to be intentional about expressing them, we have to be intentional about looking for our spouse expressing them, even if it's not necessarily in the way that we receive them.

 

[Edial]

Folks.
Please do not tell each other whether they are off-topic or not in this thread unless one is really in the left field someplace ... like in apples and elephants.

This is OUR job.

911 Mediators would determine if someone is off.
Otherwise one could command the thread according to his/her understanding.

I realize we start the project from tomorrow on, but we might as well start when stuff is brewing.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

 

[illudium_phosdex]

I dont care how any of you handle the issue of submission.....thats just my opinion.

Its like debating the temperature at which you like your coffee

Heh, that's pretty much what I said on page two post #17 of this said same thread. And then another poster agreed with that sentiment a page or two later. So there's three of us in agreement on that at least.

I like to make my coffee extra strong so I can ice it down to a little warmer than luke warm.

 

[FaithPrevails]

Heh, that's pretty much what I said on page two post #17 of this said same thread. And then another poster agreed with that sentiment a page or two later. So there's three of us in agreement on that at least.

I like to make my coffee extra strong so I can ice it down to a little warmer than luke warm.

I actually agree, too. I believe what I believe and state it as such. I don't ever say that anyone else has to believe what I believe and do things the way I do.

 

[Edial]

Not so sure I agree with the flows naturally part. It takes consious effort to express love and to show respect. It also sometimes takes effort to receive them. That's where I think a lot of marriages go sideways. The participants expect that love and respect and all manner of other things just happen naturally but the reality is that not only do we have to be intentional about expressing them, we have to be intentional about looking for our spouse expressing them, even if it's not necessarily in the way that we receive them.

You say effort I say repentance (confession) to our Lord.
Cannot fake love, ... the same way cannot fake submission and/or respect

Our Lord really knows how to fix stuff like that. Long run, of course.

Marriage is a process ... otherwise "for better for worse, for sickness and health" part makes no sense.

In Christ,
Ed

 

[chaz345]

You say effort I say repentance (confession) to our Lord.
Cannot fake love, ... the same way cannot fake submission and/or respect

Our Lord really knows how to fix stuff like that. Long run, of course.

Marriage is a process ... otherwise "for better for worse, for sickness and health" part makes no sense.

In Christ,
Ed

Oh I wasn't suggesting faking it in any sense. I was just saying that it takes specific intentional effort to a) express it, and especially in a way that your spouse receives b) receive it, especially when it's not expressed in the way that you most prefer to receive it.

 

[mkgal1]

Not so sure I agree with the flows naturally part. It takes consious effort to express love and to show respect. It also sometimes takes effort to receive them. That's where I think a lot of marriages go sideways. The participants expect that love and respect and all manner of other things just happen naturally but the reality is that not only do we have to be intentional about expressing them, we have to be intentional about looking for our spouse expressing them, even if it's not necessarily in the way that we receive them.

You say effort I say repentance (confession) to our Lord.
Cannot fake love, ... the same way cannot fake submission and/or respect

Our Lord really knows how to fix stuff like that. Long run, of course.

Marriage is a process ... otherwise "for better for worse, for sickness and health" part makes no sense.

In Christ,
Ed

Oh I wasn't suggesting faking it in any sense. I was just saying that it takes specific intentional effort to a) express it, and especially in a way that your spouse receives b) receive it, especially when it's not expressed in the way that you most prefer to receive it.

To me....when I hear the word, "effort".....it sounds like "strain" or as if it's our ability--our work. IMO......it's more the direction Ed was leaning.....that loving in a Christ-like way is about surrendering to HIM. Forsaking our selfish ways, our way of thinking.....and to follow His lead. The Bible tells us that if we "abide in Him, He will abide in us" and that when we are "in HIM".....our love is evidence of that relationship. It's not our "effort" but what we surrender to. Just wanted to point out that distinction.

 

[Edial]

Oh I wasn't suggesting faking it in any sense. I was just saying that it takes specific intentional effort to a) express it, and especially in a way that your spouse receives b) receive it, especially when it's not expressed in the way that you most prefer to receive it.

... this follows naturally after a true confession.

 

[Nilla]

Mediation Hat On

Moving this thread to Questions from Singles
about Marriage since the OP isn't married.

Mediation Hat Off​

 

[chaz345]

... this follows naturally after a true confession.

I disagree. The desire to may become more natural, more automatic, but the actual daily doing of it will always require effort on our part.

 

[chaz345]

To me....when I hear the word, "effort".....it sounds like "strain" or as if it's our ability--our work. IMO......it's more the direction Ed was leaning.....that loving in a Christ-like way is about surrendering to HIM. Forsaking our selfish ways, our way of thinking.....and to follow His lead. The Bible tells us that if we "abide in Him, He will abide in us" and that when we are "in HIM".....our love is evidence of that relationship. It's not our "effort" but what we surrender to. Just wanted to point out that distinction.

Even with Christ, even with being fully surrendered to Him, it's still "work" in a sense. I know that runs counter to the overly romantic notions that many have about marriage and love but it's true. Sure in being surrendered to Christ, putting aside self becomes a lot easier, no argument there. But the daily actions of expressing love and respect don't "just happen." It's always going to require intentional effort by us. Work if you will. Again, the idea that love is work runs counter to many romantic notions we have, but love being work doesn't make it mean anything less, in fact it makes it mean more. And besides, it doesn't really matter does it? I mean is there really a difference between a husband meeting a need in his wife because he's so madly in love that he can't imagine doing anything else, which is the romanticized version, or him doing it as an act of will because he knows it's the right thing to do, as long as he's not complaining about it? She's still getting the need met either way and he's still doing what God expects.

 

[chaz345]

Ed, I'm not so sure we really disagree all that much on this point. All I'm saying is that "flows naturally" plays into and reinforces the overly romanticized notion that if one is really truly in love, marriage doesn't require effort. Or to put is the other way that if effort is required, then something is wrong.

 

[mkgal1]

Even with Christ, even with being fully surrendered to Him, it's still "work" in a sense. I know that runs counter to the overly romantic notions that many have about marriage and love but it's true. Sure in being surrendered to Christ, putting aside self becomes a lot easier, no argument there. But the daily actions of expressing love and respect don't "just happen." It's always going to require intentional effort by us. Work if you will. Again, the idea that love is work runs counter to many romantic notions we have, but love being work doesn't make it mean anything less, in fact it makes it mean more. And besides, it doesn't really matter does it? I mean is there really a difference between a husband meeting a need in his wife because he's so madly in love that he can't imagine doing anything else, which is the romanticized version, or him doing it as an act of will because he knows it's the right thing to do, as long as he's not complaining about it? She's still getting the need met either way and he's still doing what God expects.

I'm not talking about "romance" or being "madly in love". I'm talking about what the Bible says about how, "they will know we are Christians by our love." That's God's love flowing through us......without any interference on our behalf. It's seeing others through "God's lens" not ours. Surrendering to what God's course of action is.....not our own understanding. To make it about "work" DOES matter.....IMO, because that seems to be about our ability & less about God.

I would agree with you that this "doesn't just happen". It takes a conscious decision to choose to follow God (each day that decision needs to be made again)........to guard our hearts....and to resolve differences early---before the bitterness and resentment gets a chance to set in.

 

[Edial]

I disagree. The desire to may become more natural, more automatic, but the actual daily doing of it will always require effort on our part.

True confession produces true desire.

Confession is a longing to follow God's way in the light of our constant failures.
It has a definite element of despair in it as well. like in "there is no way I can do it on my own".

PS 51:6 Surely you desire truth in the inner parts;
you teach me wisdom in the inmost place.
PS 51:7 Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean;
wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.

God's cleansing process follows one's inner and often desperate confession the s/he simply cannot change on his own.

Marriage is a lifetime process in this place we call "world".

You go through this, learn about each other, yet mostly learn about oneself.

I always respected folks who were married a long time despite of their problems, arguments, idiosyncrasies (abusive marriages being the exception, of course).

They deserve medals for this - and they probably would - in Heaven.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

 

[Edial]

Ed, I'm not so sure we really disagree all that much on this point. All I'm saying is that "flows naturally" plays into and reinforces the overly romanticized notion that if one is really truly in love, marriage doesn't require effort. Or to put is the other way that if effort is required, then something is wrong.

Right, we discuss.

Discussion is not necessarily disagreement - it is clarification and mutual learning process.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed