Breaking the 5th commandment?

[JoabAnias]

I'm not a Catholic so why would I use a Catholic Bible?

Because if you don't you use the one false teachers have changed since the 16th century.

2Ti 4:3 For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears:

 

[RND]

Because if you don't you use the one false teachers have changed since the 16th century.

2Ti 4:3 For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears:

I'm confussed then in that case.

If you are using the "correct" version of the Bible, why the need to change the order of the commandments?

Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

What do you suppose those "times and laws" that the little horn thinks to change are?

 

[JoabAnias]

The church doesn't fulfill the old covenant, Jesus does. We worship only the one true God in three persons.

The Catholic Church remains:

1Ti 3:15 that you may know how to behave in the house of God, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

and it will remain so until the end of time because Jesus said it would be so.

Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against her.

Joh 14:16 And I will petition the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may remain with you to the age,

God's commandment "thou shall not make a graven image" is entirely connected to the worship of false gods. God does not prohibit images to be used in worship, but He prohibits the images themselves to be worshiped.

Exodus 25:18-22; 26:1,31 - for example, God commands the making of the image of a golden cherubim. This heavenly image, of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image disposes their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God.

Num. 21:8-9 - God also commands the making of the bronze serpent. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind to the supernatural.

I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 - Solomon's temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship.

2 Kings 18:4 - it was only when the people began to worship the statue did they incur God's wrath, and the king destroyed it. The command prohibiting the use of graven images deals exclusively with the false worship of those images.

1 Chron. 28:18-19 - David gives Solomon the plan for the altar made of refined gold with a golden cherubim images. These images were used in the Jews' most solemn place of worship.

2 Chron. 3:7-14 - the house was lined with gold with elaborate cherubim carved in wood and overlaid with gold.

Ezek. 41:15 - Ezekiel describes graven images in the temple consisting of carved likenesses of cherubim. These are similar to the images of the angels and saints in many Catholic churches.
Col. 1:15 - the only image of God that Catholics worship is Jesus Christ, who is the "image" (Greek "eikon") of the invisible God.
Images and Statues

Joh 14:26 but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and shall remind you of all things that I said to you.

These accusations of Satan that we worship images are nothing new:

2Pe 2:1 But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and denying the Master who has bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.

 

[JoabAnias]

I'm confussed then in that case.

If you are using the "correct" version of the Bible, why the need to change the order of the commandments?

The order of the comandments are as the Holy Spirit intends them to be.

Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

What do you suppose those "times and laws" that the little horn thinks to change are?

I suppose a denial of the apostolic church, and laws of nature or imposing ones own will over that of Gods.

Perhaps removing books from the bible all together and erroding the doctrines of Christ's church or attacking her in general by appearing as an angel of light and twisting scripture to suit his own diabolical purposes for the destruction and tearing down of men in opposition to the Church who interprets through the Holy Spirit for the building up.

I'd also suppose one of the biggest things he would like to do is cause the break up of the family, death of the innocent and unity in general.

Doesn't really matter when Christ's promise holds true now does it? "The gates of hell will not prevail." You see He fulfilled that prophesy too.

Peace.

 

[JoabAnias]

Well I harm people all the time with my words, it's become second nature to me because of the hard life I've lead.
Also I want you guys for me to pray to have strength to change my actions and live more by the book. So all prayers are welcome.

Something occured to me tonight at work about your situation that might be of a practicle help for you besides prayers that is.

I remembered coming to terms with a similar problem shortly after my conversion. It was so long ago now I had almost forgot but when It came back to me I remembered this thread.

Somewhere in my travels I picked up this little stone with the words of the Lord on it "He that is without sin among you let him cast the first stone".

When I first brought the stone home I hadn't even realize I judged others. Slowly, as I would see the stone sitting around at home, I realized I was hard on people in my thoughts and words.

I began to look at this stone every day after that until I finally just began carrying it around. It was a great reminder even after the hard thoughts went away. In fact I still have the stone and its followed me for over a decade now.

It worked for me and maybe can work for you too. I don't know where you could get one but any small stone might work if you know the passage. "He that is without sin among you let him cast the first stone". Jn 8:7

Peace.

 

[DedicatedLittleFaith]

This is a Catechism Studies Group.

Non-Catholics are welcome to participate in the discussions of course, but you cannot argue against Catholic Teachings here. The whole point of this group is for Catholics to grow in their faith.

 

[Ceili]

I read these posts and it's a simple but varying commandment but not always the easiest to keep. I agree with the poster-Jack the Catholic.

I'm being confirmed March 22. I'm really feeling great fire and strength in almost everything I put my mind to. Holy Spirit protect me and help me understand everything I am being taught as there's so much to learn.


anyone going through their Rite the same time as me this year?

 

[norbie]

hi,
you may rethink your statement 'ALL OTHER CHURCHES' protesting....
may i remind you that the primar of the church of england(anglican in australia) have celebrated hl. mass together!
norbie

I am terrible sorry and apologiese to all of you - this post of mine should not be here - I didn't put it there, so please forgive my interference.

 

[2WhomShallWeGo]

The things that make a sin serious ....
accept the temptation , dwell upon it , then do it ...

Jesus said " you have been instructed , but I say to you " he who thinks upon sin is already guilty ... for what you think & meditate upon you will do ...

Matthew 5.26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Sorry that first statement is false the things you listed only mean that you have full consent only serious matter can make a sin serious not simly full intent. For a sin to be mortal A.K.A. damning it must be Serious matter, one must have full consent A.K.A time enough to intend it, and one must also know that is mortal. I think you might be confusing your mortal sin conditions.
JMJ

 

[2WhomShallWeGo]

deleted by poster

 

[2WhomShallWeGo]

Okay so I joined the RCIA and I will be confirmed in April the night before easter. I know I haven't posted here in a while but I'm back now and I have a question.

The woman who teaches the class is Sister Marie and last night we had a discussion on the 10 commandments. Since there is only ten of us in the class each one of us took a commandment and read up on it and explained what it meant.

I got number five, thou shalt not kill, and I found out that it also means not harming someone emotionally as WELL as Physically. Well I harm people all the time with my words, it's become second nature to me because of the hard life I've lead. I am a rather small person and they only recourse I have is verbal abuse, I cannot physically fight.

Not only that, but I'm breaking like 5 more commandments as we speak. Some of the things I am doing to break the fifth commandment (Don't worry I haven't killed anyone) I don't want to stop doing. I know I have to but I feel like it's justified. I guess what I'm asking is if you guys believe that harming someone's reputation with verbal/written word is breaking the fifth commandment and the 8th.

Also I want you guys for me to pray to have strength to change my actions and live more by the book. So all prayers are welcome.

I know thi was a while ago but as you may still be struggling and alot of people have this problem I figured.....

Perhaps the most helpful thing after prayer, would be to understand how awful what your describing can be. Don't take what I'm about to say personally it applies to everyone. What You seem to be talking about can be called detraction or calumny. They can also fall under the modern term of character assasination. further there are few things that a man holds more dear to himself than his good name. Even his life might not be as valuable. So when you strike at a mans good name You strike at the very heart and if you succeed, you kill something that is difficult to revive. DONT EVER do this, you must learn to Stop as fast as you can. This is easily very serious and CAN be a damnable offence. (thank goodness for Gods forgiveness, we all need it) What do you imagine could possibly give you the RIGHT? it may feel justified but it isn't. Keep in mind that what makes a thing justified is a good purpose combined with a good means. You wont find such a thing for such an action. Remember instead that every christian has flaws, That you Specifically have flaws. Remember instead that but for the grace of God and his mercy that you could be doing much worse than what ever you imagine them to be doing. Remember to go to confession and confess this. If you ask for advice the priest maybe able to tell you some useful things as well. This particular sin is made easier by Pride. So humble yourself.

Stop imagining what they are gaining and what your losing. The ONLY reason anyone should be telling ANYONE about someone else's faults is to warn someone of some particular danger that they are in and even then if there is some other means by which you can warn them and protect the person good name then you must. (even if it isn't so good). If you need to commiserate to some one do NOT use the name of the person you are tempted to slander. You MUST guard their name and person like it was YOUR OWN. If you find difficulty with doing this then it might be better to shut up. If you are experiencing pleasure or "justification" or some other emotion like that then you have the wrong attitude and should probably shut up. You should seriously consider apologizing. If you can repair the damage you've done then you should consider it. As a new catholic you should probably talk to someone you trust about how to prudently do this.

Do NOT think for a moment that just because you are telling the truth that you can say what ever you want. good peoples reputations are destroyed this way so often. Just because you may not lie doesn't mean you hae the right to open your mouth about others business.

I hope that was helpful, I like that stone idea although a pebble might be easier to carry. Pray to God like we all should. Go to confession, put your trust in Jesus, and the teachings of the church he has placed over you. ask for help from the saints. Know that they are aware of your triumph and revel in, and desire your progress in virtue and holiness. Know that they all started out in sin like you and me, but they put their trust in Christ like you.

JMJ