Bible

FaithT

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I’m in a discussion on fb with someone who was bashing the Bible and I said it is a wise and profound book. He replied something like this: “What part? Rape? Incest? Genocide?“ and he said that the Bible “just regurgitates beliefs and tenants from other religions.” How do I respond to that? And is the Bible stories copied from other religions?
 
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eleos1954

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I’m in a discussion on fb with someone who was bashing the Bible and I said it is a wise and profound book. He replied something like this: “What part? Rape? Incest? Genocide?“ and he said that the Bible “just regurgitates beliefs and tenants from other religions.” How do I respond to that? And is the Bible stories copied from other religions?
Sin the fall of mankind ... most certainly man has been committing atrocities and yes they are described in the bible .... God does not approve of these things ... but knows mankind will do these things and allows them to happen

Regarding the command to eradicate entire nations, I believe that if God had not influence of these nations left unchecked would ultimately lead to the death of many more innocent people.

It’s helpful to keep in mind that nations like the Canaanites engaged in human sacrifice, even offering their children to devil gods. (See Deuteronomy 12:31.) Additionally, not only did God use Israel’s might to punish evil nations like these, He used the Babylonian, Assyrian, and Egyptian kings to punish Israel. God will often use human forces to mete out His discipline.

God is just and that He is love. We serve a sovereign and eternal God who knows better than we do, and though we now look at Him through a glass darkly, one day will come when we will have clear answers. Remember that God’s ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts (Isaiah 55:9; Romans 11:33–36). We have to be willing to trust God and have faith in Him even when we do not understand.

Remember God destroyed almost all of mankind himself with the flood ... the world had become so wicked that had He not .... humanity would have been totally eliminated. We are nearing that state once again ... but praise God ... until that time the door to salvation is open.

Earthly death is not the end for believers ... and we patiently wait for the return of Jesus to end this mess for eternity. Amen.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I’m in a discussion on fb with someone who was bashing the Bible and I said it is a wise and profound book. He replied something like this: “What part? Rape? Incest? Genocide?“ and he said that the Bible “just regurgitates beliefs and tenants from other religions.” How do I respond to that? And is the Bible stories copied from other religions?

The way you respond to typical allegations is to insist that the "bible basher" learn how to critically read and think about more than just the bible. It also means you'll have to be willing to slog through the dead marshes of atheistic arguments and find weak spots.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I’m in a discussion on fb with someone who was bashing the Bible and I said it is a wise and profound book. He replied something like this: “What part? Rape? Incest? Genocide?“ and he said that the Bible “just regurgitates beliefs and tenants from other religions.” How do I respond to that? And is the Bible stories copied from other religions?

This probably would be better in a Christians-only section; depending on what sort of answers and insights you are looking for.

If it were me, I probably wouldn't bother trying to argue or debate someone saying something like that. When I was younger I would have, but at this point in my life I'd recognize that as largely just being hostile; and that kind of hostility is unlikely to bear any kind of fruitful dialogue.

It's one of the reasons I also don't usually care for Apologist/Anti-apologist debate. I'm constantly having to modify my YouTube algorithm saying I'm not interested in certain channels because the alorhithm keeps thinking that I want to watch "Christians bashing atheists" and "Atheists bashing Christians" videos; and I really don't have an interest in either. I suspect that I've confused the YouTube algorithm because I watch Christian content and scientific content (including videos debunking pseudoscience) and the algorithm just doesn't know what to do with that. But it's not content I enjoy, for the same reason I don't really care for debates of that nature anyway.

So my suggestion would be to not bother. It can be beneficial for yourself to learn both points and counter-points from both believers and skeptics alike, just to get a feel for what's out there. Even better would learn more about the Bible and gain a better grasp on it, both from a religious perspective as well as an academic perspective.

But don't waste energy trying have a debate with someone clearly hostile (and this is I think a general principle to hold to). Some people, both religious and non-religious, are more interested in "being right" or "giving it to the other guy" and trying to get "gotchas" for a small amount of brownie points that won't even buy you a cup of coffee at a cheap roadside diner.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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FaithT

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This probably would be better in a Christians-only section; depending on what sort of answers and insights you are looking for.

If it were me, I probably wouldn't bother trying to argue or debate someone saying something like that. When I was younger I would have, but at this point in my life I'd recognize that as largely just being hostile; and that kind of hostility is unlikely to bear any kind of fruitful dialogue.

It's one of the reasons I also don't usually care for Apologist/Anti-apologist debate. I'm constantly having to modify my YouTube algorithm saying I'm not interested in certain channels because the alorhithm keeps thinking that I want to watch "Christians bashing atheists" and "Atheists bashing Christians" videos; and I really don't have an interest in either. I suspect that I've confused the YouTube algorithm because I watch Christian content and scientific content (including videos debunking pseudoscience) and the algorithm just doesn't know what to do with that. But it's not content I enjoy, for the same reason I don't really care for debates of that nature anyway.

So my suggestion would be to not bother. It can be beneficial for yourself to learn both points and counter-points from both believers and skeptics alike, just to get a feel for what's out there. Even better would learn more about the Bible and gain a better grasp on it, both from a religious perspective as well as an academic perspective.

But don't waste energy trying have a debate with someone clearly hostile (and this is I think a general principle to hold to). Some people, both religious and non-religious, are more interested in "being right" or "giving it to the other guy" and trying to get "gotchas" for a small amount of brownie points that won't even buy you a cup of coffee at a cheap roadside diner.

-CryptoLutheran
The conversation on fb is over anyway. I think. Until, of course someone else mentions the Bible and we’re off and running again. I just won’t engage in a discussion about it.
 
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jacks

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I’m in a discussion on fb with someone who was bashing the Bible and I said it is a wise and profound book. He replied something like this: “What part? Rape? Incest? Genocide?“ and he said that the Bible “just regurgitates beliefs and tenants from other religions.” How do I respond to that? And is the Bible stories copied from other religions?
It might be helpful to point out that parts of the Bible describes way things should be and part of it describes the way things are. It isn't a feel good fairy tale for children (maybe don't say it exactly that way, they may be insulted.) Rather it is an adult book on God's interaction with human kind, in both a physical and spiritual level. As far as "regurgitating beliefs and tenants from other religions", that is also a comment that usually isn't well researched, but you might point out that it would be strange if other religions didn't have a least some of the truth. Remember you can't change their mind by merely your words or argument, try to live a life as an example of faith and Godliness. This is the best witness.
 
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BCP1928

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Yes, I most assuredly know that ... yet, surely, in return, you recognize that this conclusion of yours prompts further questions, investigations and deliberations about the nature of the biblical literature. And to say that the Bible "is a human creation" isn't quite the same as saying that anyone of us knows beyond the shadow of a doubt that it contains merely "human content" or that its content represent and reflect merely human speculation on all points throughout.
I don't think that's the main issue. The Bible is a heterogeneous collection of ancient texts written in different languages at different times for different readers by different authors over a period of centuries. Those texts are subject to the same scholarly examination as any other ancient texts. in fact, if we truly believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God then they demand that scholarly examination by the best scholars from all fields of science, literature and theology. There need be no fear as to what they might discover it to be, myth, legend, history, whatever.

The problem starts when some Christian sects conclude that if the Bible is divinely inspired then it must be thus-and-so or else it won't support the theology we favor. The literal inerrancy of YECism is a prime example of this, Dispensationalism another.
 
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tampasteve

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ADMIN HAT ON

Per an in-thread request, this thread has been moved to a Christian Only sub-forum. Posts by or in reply to non-Christians have been removed.

ADMIN HAT OFF
 
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com7fy8

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he said that the Bible “just regurgitates beliefs and tenants from other religions.”
Not "tenants", I think, but "tenets". And a tenet is something that you hold to.

Well, to me it is very clear the Bible shows that God is personal and sharing with His children. For example, the Bible says that our Father shares His very own love with us "in our hearts" >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, God through Jesus Christ His Son does not only talk to us from a distance, but "in our hearts" He shares so personally with us.

Have "fun" finding this in the tenets of various religions, including of groups who claim to be Christian and by the Bible.
 
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Stephen3141

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The criticism is too unspecific, to be addressed.

If you go back to records of any culture, that existed at the time of the early
history in the Bible (32 - 40 centuries ago), you will find all sorts of brutal
behavior going on. Mentioning brutal behavior, is realistic reporting.

Figuring out causality, among the ancient accounts in different cultures, is
difficult. Even professionals who study the ancient texts, would admit this.
The professionals would not be so simplistic as to assert that the Bible
just copies what other ancient texts say.

As for god judging certain people groups -- this is offensive to many
modern Americans, who think that God does not have the right to bring
down judgment on ANYONE. And, properly, this is not "genocide", but the
destruction of a people group that holds to certain abhorrent cultural behaviors.

Note that this destruction of a people group, is also what God did (substantially)
to the Jewish people, after they had abandoned God's moral-ethical law,
and demeaned themselves with all sorts of perverting behavior. The conquering of
the Jews by the Hitties and babylonians, was not an ethnic thing, but the result
of a moral-ethical failure by god's people.

Criticism of the Bible, needs to be a lot more intelligent, than complaining that
it includes accounts of rape and genocide.
 
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Simon_Templar

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I’m in a discussion on fb with someone who was bashing the Bible and I said it is a wise and profound book. He replied something like this: “What part? Rape? Incest? Genocide?“ and he said that the Bible “just regurgitates beliefs and tenants from other religions.” How do I respond to that? And is the Bible stories copied from other religions?
Realistically there is most likely nothing you can say that will matter.

There are answers to all of that which that person could find and study if they actually cared, but they don't really want to know. They think they already know, and the vast majority of the time they have no interest in learning anything that contradicts them.

If you are troubled by the questions that is fine, there is nothing wrong with asking legitimate questions. The problem for most of those people is they have already made their mind up and they are only looking for things to justify what they already believe.

As I said, there are plenty of Christian thinkers and teachers who address those questions. All you'd have to do is search for them on Youtube or Google. Just make sure you are getting a good orthodox Christian source. I don't mean by this that it is wrong to listen to the other side, just make sure you don't ONLY listen to the other side.


Regarding the question "is the Bible stories copied from other religions?"
No. They are not.

I've been a student of history my whole adult life, and I've spent much of the last twenty years studying Christian history, theology, and philosophy etc.

Most of these claims are what amount to historical conspiracy theories. They have no real evidence. Often times they rely on evidence that is simply made up, they rely on ignoring evidence that contradicts them, and they rely on twisting and misrepresenting facts.

There are some things like this. Many, maybe even most, ancient mythologies have some kind of Flood story where the earth is flooded and only one or a few human survive.

Does this mean that the Bible story of the flood was copied from other religions? or does this mean that all of those ancient religions are talking about an even that really happened?

Another example is this... It was once argued that the idea of a god dying and rising again was a common motif of ancient middle eastern religions.
It was argued that Jesus was just another in this well established trope of ancient mythology.
However, as scholars began to get a hold of this in the 20th century, they began to realize that in pre-Christian mythology there were few if any dying and rising god myths. They were instead simply dying god myths and they didn't rise. The dying and rising god myths that do exist are all mystery cults from "late antiquity", after the time of Christ.


In other words, it is more likely that the resurrection of Jesus became such an important idea that pagans began adding it to their stories and mythologies, to compete with Christianity.
However, even if the idea of a dying and rising god predated Christianity, we believe that God built his truth into nature itself and as such there are prefigurements of the Gospel everywhere, they are virtually inescapable in nature itself. Thus it should be no surprise to us if pagans who were much more aware of nature than we moderns are, picked up bits of the truth and incorporated it into their beliefs. Also, it is widely believed in traditional / historic Christianity that God has always sent angels to inspire the truth among peoples, so if we find true beliefs in ancient cultures again, it is no surprise to us.

The key distinction is that they had mythology, we have historical fact. Theirs was stories and legends, ours happened in history.
 
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