Bible 100% Truth? 100% Fact

[INRI2]

I am a Catholic and I believe the bible is the inerrant word of God and is 100% truth and although I believe most of the stories were factual especially the gospel accounts..I still believe the bible is not 100% factual.

I believe truth and fact are two seperate things, for example the book of Genesis that depticts the creation of mankind through adam and eve may not be factual it maybe symbolic but it does not make it any less true because truth is not always factual as in how a fact is always true. Truth is more than fact, fact deals with realities, truth deals with moralities, ideologies philosophies.

When we say the bible is the truth of almighty God. it means we have accepted it as morally perfect, ideologically perfect and philosophically perfect...not as perfectly factual (although some people evidently believe it is) and although it is not the revealed fullness of the truth of almighty God for there is more to God than what is revealed in the bible (for the fullness of revelation that is Christ himself) we still regard it as being 100% truth

When we say there is one true God we mean that there is only one ultimate truth, one ultimate ideology one ultimate phiosophy

When Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through me.... "

he didnt mean he was factual (although he was) he was saying that he was God, morally perfect, ideolgical perfect and the philosophical perfection and that no one could be perfect unless they were like him...no one comes to the perfect except by being like me.... "be ye then perfect just as your heavenly father is perfect for nothing unclean shall enter the kingdom of heaven"

The fact we have facts is only a pointer towards absolute truth...god

Yes the bible is 100% truth even if it is not 100% factual

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I am a Catholic and I believe the bible is the inerrant word of God and is 100% truth and although I believe most of the stories were factual especially the gospel accounts..I still believe the bible is not 100% factual.

I believe truth and fact are two seperate things, for example the book of Genesis that depticts the creation of mankind through adam and eve may not be factual it maybe symbolic but it does not make it any less true because truth is not always factual as in how a fact is always true. Truth is more than fact, fact deals with realities, truth deals with moralities, ideologies philosophies.

When we say the bible is the truth of almighty God. it means we have accepted it as morally perfect, ideologically perfect and philosophically perfect...not as perfectly factual (although some people evidently believe it is) and although it is not the revealed fullness of the truth of almighty God for there is more to God than what is revealed in the bible (for the fullness of revelation that is Christ himself) we still regard it as being 100% truth

When we say there is one true God we mean that there is only one ultimate truth, one ultimate ideology one ultimate phiosophy

When Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through me.... "

he didnt mean he was factual (although he was) he was saying that he was God, morally perfect, ideolgical perfect and the philosophical perfection and that no one could be perfect unless they were like him...no one comes to the perfect except by being like me.... "be ye then perfect just as your heavenly father is perfect for nothing unclean shall enter the kingdom of heaven"

The fact we have facts is only a pointer towards absolute truth...god

Yes the bible is 100% truth even if it is not 100% factual

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

So rare is it that people understanding the difference between truth and fact.

Personally I don't understand how you can reject the faticity of the entire Bible and still be an inerrantist. If you think the Scriptures are completely true in matters of faith, morality, doctrine, and ethics but not in matters of secular science and history, that is the position called infallibility.

Or are you just trying to point out that the Scriptures are not a text of axioms that can be arranged scientifically?

 

[mont974x4]

I have no doubt in my heart of hearts that the Bible is true on all counts.

If we can not trust it in one area, on what is the basis we use to decide that part of it isn't factual? This is a dangerous road as it can lead us to doubt, or worse yet, explaining away parts of Scripture because we have decided that it isn't fact.


I take things and look at it through the lens of Scripture, not the other way around. It is my basis for truth and fact. God can not lie and I don't beleive He would allow men to write His Words for us and have them be anything but truth and fact.


All this does not negate the fact that the Bible does contain symbolic texts, however, when we look at them in context it helps us to determine what we are dealing with. For example, Genesis is not a book that contains the symbolic flavor of Song of Solomon. There is nothing in Genesis to suggest that it is anything but a factual account of the creation of the world and mankind.

 

[anawim]

Yes the bible is 100% truth even if it is not 100% factual

Can you give a 'fer instance'?

 

[pgp_protector]

Can you give a 'fer instance'?

There was no pearl for example.

 

[mont974x4]

Scripture reference?

I would guess you refer to Matthew 7:6?

 

[tulc]

when ever these discussions come up I'm reminded of something Real Live Preacher wrote:

There’s something about the way you use the bible, something about the way you use it as a tool, as a weapon, as a fulcrum, as a means, as an end, as a trump card.
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]There’s something about the way you see the bible as a thing to be used at all.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]There’s something about your intensity and your urgency and the way you have your eyes locked on some distant prize. There’s something about the energy you are putting into this. It’s making you frantic and in a hurry. You will not be present in a sacred moment. You will not wait. You will not keep silence. You will not admit that you are weak. You will not let things unfold.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]You cannot abide, so you will not abide. You will not abide the journey. Arriving is all you want, and the bible is some kind of shortcut for you. You seem to be cutting corners and covering your tracks with memorized verses. You enter every room with a blast of pretty Jesus words and a lot of fast talking.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]Somehow you have come to think that the bible is like everything else in your life. You think it is something to master and something you can own. The more you know about the bible, the more power you hope to gain. The more verses you can quote, the closer to God you hope to be. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]The bible is your prop and your flag. You wave it around and make sure that it is seen. You highlight it and talk about it and make wild claims about its truth and fight over it and win with it and boast about how you believe every word of it. It is your way and your truth and your life.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]Behold, your sacred battle cry: “The Word of the Lord is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]But that verse isn’t about the bible. It’s about Christ, whom you serve, and whose spirit you are called to carry in your heart. It is only He who is your way and your truth and your life.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]That old man that you brushed aside? The one you called a liberal and a wishy-washy Christian? He spent the last fifty years with his hands and his heart in the pages of that sacred book. He has wept over it and searched for truth in its stories. His unanswered questions have increased every year until finally he knows nothing at all but the love of God and neighbor.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]He knows something that you do not know.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]Those people around the table? The ones you spoke so harshly to that night when you came upon them sharing a meal and pleasant conversation at church? You told them it was a shame when Christians gathered only to eat and talk. You dropped your big black bible on the table with a thud for emphasis. They are some of God’s oldest and wisest servants. They have prayed down the walls of prejudice and broken the strongholds of anger and pain with the prayers of their hands and feet. Their meal was a prayer, though you couldn’t hear it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]They know something that you do not know.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]These people know that the bible is not a self-help book full of easy answers, [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]but a book of stories and wisdom that is meant to lead us into relationship and worship. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]There are hard and fast truths in it, yes, but they are surrounded by soft truths, and slippery truths, and sometimes truths, and truths that once were true but are no longer true, and truths that are only true if you are in the right state of mind, and truths that are only true if you are not hurting someone, and truths that are true in the moment but not if you are talking about the moment, and truths that can only be lived and should never be spoken, and truths that we cannot hear, and truths that are more than we can bear.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]The truths of the bible are utterly beyond anyone who seeks to own truth and who seeks truth above the Spirit of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]The bible is not a book for those who need a weapon. It is not a book for those who know where they are going and what questions they will ask. It is not a book for those who are in a hurry and looking for the shortest route.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]The bible is a book for pilgrims and wanderers. It is a book for children and for those who wish to become children again. It is a book for seekers and searchers and dreamers.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]It is a book for anyone and everyone who hopes that the desires of God might be written upon their hearts.[/FONT]

tulc(always humbled when he reads this because it SO describes him)

 

[mont974x4]

Perhaps for the sake of the discussion we should consider replacing the word "factual" with "literal"?

 

[tulc]

As a friend of mine says: "I take the bible seriously not literally!"
tulc(who seems to spend a lot of time quoting people smarter then himself)

 

[mont974x4]

I take it literally when the text suggests it should be and, yes, always seriously.


Although Song of Solomon is more fun than serious.

 

[tulc]

Although Song of Solomon is more fun than serious.

LOL! I can see that!
I always found an undercurrent of humor in the Gospels, come on, Jesus had to have a twinkle in His eye when He chose His disciples! Why else put such a weird group together!
tulc(not to mention choosing me...what's THAT all about?)

 

[mont974x4]

off topic..sorry LOL

Have you read the book called Jacob, the fools God chooses, or something like that? It's pretty good. It talks about the God choosing imperfect people to do great things for Him and His Kingdom.

 

[Nachtjager]

As a friend of mine says: "I take the bible seriously not literally!"
tulc(who seems to spend a lot of time quoting people smarter then himself)

I like this saying! I'm definitely going to steal this, thanks! And I like INRI's analysis, truth and facts can certainly be seperated.

And wasn't it Pilate who was so troubled as to ask, "what is truth?" Amazing how that question still sounds like a gong almost two thousand years later, isn't it?

Take care and God bless!

 

[INRI2]

Personally I don't understand how you can reject the faticity of the entire Bible and still be an inerrantist. If you think the Scriptures are completely true in matters of faith, morality, doctrine, and ethics but not in matters of secular science and history, that is the position called infallibility.

I do believe most of the bible is factual but I think a lot of it is allagorical, metaphorical and symbolic in nature, the concept of adam and eve being a factual creational account to me seems odd (although I do not rule it out) I do believe it to be a true account symbolically etc in that sense to me the bible is the in errent word of God not because it is perfectually factual but because it is perfectly true.

The message is one of truth not of fact