Basic candle questions...and a thank you

[Nick1000]

Hello, and thank you to all here who have been so helpful to those of us out in Lurker-land.

On Christmas Day, I took the big plunge and drove three hours to visit- for the first time- a Greek Orthodox Church. I just went in and participated and let the chips fall where they may- didn't even put my ski mask on or anything. Although things run deeper for me, for my first visit, I reminded myself of Woody Allen's old line that "80% of life is just showing up" so my goal was to just show up that day. Don't think that my mind did not try to disable me by coming up with some first class excuses to chicken out cause you know it tried bigtime and then it came at it from a couple different angles.

Needless to say, I will be back. Once a tiger has tasted blood, there is no going back to being a vegetarian/ ie. the other goofy churches (little joke there, but not really). Maybe I will only be able to go to an Orthodox church once a month or so for a while and then I will have to put a better plan together somehow for the long run. So be it for now. I have scouted out an OCA Orthodox Church for a future visit as well, also 3 hours away. It is far away but I would rather start doing occasional "mini-pilgrimages" than pretend that ways of worshiping that are not acceptable or deep enough can be made workable just because they are closer. Nope- done with that type of thing, forever. I will figure something out over time. Meanwhile. I just want to learn at least a little more about the Orthodox Church each month, somewhere, somehow. I do learn massive amounts because I read massive amounts and have prayer practices- and that is all good, but as you know you have to actually show up somewhere, sometime to be part of community, so I am working on that.

On a more nitty-gritty level, if I could impose upon your kindness to answer a few basic questions about lighting candles, I would very much appreciate it. I thought that google would be my friend, but google is sort of a difficult child when it comes to the details of some of my questions.

Obviously I passed through the narthex on the way in but I was one of the early ones and no one was lighting candles right at that time. So- (I am little bit embarassed with the "basicness" of my questions- but 1) where do people get the candles to light? Are they there nearby in a holder or something, 2) you pay somehow, leave a donation somewhere or how is that done? and if so is there a set or suggested donation or just left to the individual's discretion? 3) you just light your candle off of any other candle that is lit or it poor form to light off of someone else's candle and there is a primary one somewhere that should be used? 4) can you take more than one candle for separate prayer wishes or expressions of gratitude whatever? 5) and then you just stick in the sand in the box or whatever is there in any place that looks available or are there rules and etiquette there? 6) Most of the candles are just wax type candles but some are in glass "tea-light" type holders. What is the difference in the use or dedication of one type versus and the other? 7) and then after the candle is lit, it is in the hands of the church then and just burns until it burns out or is put out as needed to safely close the church at the end of the day??

I know that is a lot of questions about something that is very simple once you know the answers- except I don't. So I will just hold out my begging bowl and any information tossed into that bowl is greatly appreciated.

Thank you again.

Nick

 

[JazzHands]

lol.. love your turn of phrase... you should be a writer!

 

[ArmyMatt]

glad you had a good experience!

1) usually at the front there is a spot to pick them up.
2) usually there is a spot for donations.
3) yep, light it with whatever fire is already there.
4) yep, take as many as you need.
5) yep, place it in the box. most folks make the the sign of the Cross after they stick it in and say their prayer.
6) if I am thinking of the right ones, those are votives and they burn longer.
7) yep.

 

[archer75]

Sometimes there is a person at the candle area making change and such. Or if it is self-service, there may be a "price list." If you make a mistake, you can always stick the difference in the box next time.

 

[archer75]

Also some people buy candles at their church to burn or use as "prayer lamps" for their home prayers.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hello and welcome to CF and to TAW!!! So glad to have you with us, and very glad you ventured out to a Liturgy. And that you plan to again. It's a good idea to visit different Churches within traveling distance, though if you get more serious you may prefer to cultivate more of a relationship with a particular community/priest. That's essentially how I chose.

Are you sure there's nothing else closer? You might run your location through this site if you haven't already.

Directories

It looks like Fr. Matt already answered your candle questions. Sometimes there can be a bit of variation. Usually you donate however much you want, but I've seen a parish or few with a sign of prices (25 cents to maybe 75 cents usually). We have larger 7-day candles in tall glass candleholders that we ask more for, based on our cost.

At the end of the service in our parish any beeswax ones are snuffed before everyone leaves to prevent fires. (The wooden box holding the sand has scorch marks from a few that fell over.) In our parish there is a metal holder at the front of the Church people can place the 7-day candles in (or sometimes they place them in front of the icon screen on the tile floor. Those are left to burn until they are used up.

 

[archer75]

Also - some parishes recycle the stubs and dripping, sending them back to the monastery to be reused. So they are not just tossed, but keep being used with prayers.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Also - some parishes recycle the stubs and dripping, sending them back to the monastery to be reused. So they are not just tossed, but keep being used with prayers.

And sometimes they are recycled by laity.

Haven't been able to completely keep up with it lately though. But unless there's a decent amount of wax, it's not worth the waste that goes into separating out sand. At least with my process.

 

[Nick1000]

Big thanks to all.

Not to be too persnickety- just trying to find the most graceful way of doing things- but parishioners enter the church and then bow/cross/venerate etc in front of the icon in the narthex before entering the nave- if I have the terminology right.

What then is the proper "flow of events" if you are lighting candles. Would you "visit" the icon first and then go get the candle and light it, take care of that and then just enter the nave. Or would take care of candle lighting/donations first, then go to the icon, and from there into the nave.
Is there proper conduct and rules of the road there or does not matter and people just take care of both as they wish?

And are there any significant differences in the way to properly enter a Russian/Antiochian etc church versus Greek or is that pretty much the same?

Thank you again.

Nick

 

[archer75]

And sometimes they are recycled by laity.

Haven't been able to completely keep up with it lately though. But unless there's a decent amount of wax, it's not worth the waste that goes into separating out sand. At least with my process.

Oh, sand would mess that up. We / I don't have sand. I just save mine and toss them into the bins at a service...

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'm not sure how universal (or not) it may be, and I don't really watch what other folks are doing - but they generally do about the same as I am doing (or I do about the same as them).

I cross myself on entering. There is an icon and usually the Gospel (if you arrive after part of Orthros is past) right inside the door, so I pause first and gather my thoughts, pray, and venerate that icon and the Gospel. (Usually it's Christ unless it's a feast day.) Then I go to the other two main icons (Theotokos and Christ, and the Annunciation) and pray, then get a candle (sometimes more) and pray before lighting it, always crossing myself. If I have any business with anyone or anything I take care of that, then enter the Church and cross myself. BTW, on our parish we do not walk up the center but walk around to the outside to go up the aisle. And we don't really chit-chat in the Narthex before Church.

Best thing is to hang back and watch someone if you want to blend in a bit. But there can be variations (some people do prostrations). And some of these will be different in various jurisdictions (my parish is Greek).

 

[archer75]

I don't think you need to worry excessively.

But my parish is OCA, which means Russian-style. Just for the sake of comparison:

I cross myself on entering the building itself. Get candles and say hi. Our Narthex is a little more social, but not too much so before a service. Generally, it seems ok to say hi in the Narthex, but once people are in the nave, the main part of the church between the narthex and sanctuary, they're there to pray.

Candles in hand, I usually go venerate the festal icon and then venerate the other icons and light my candles and say prayers.

I cross myself if I have to exit or re-enter the nave.

And most people in our parish cross themselves when crossing over the center line in the nave - i.e. - where the altar is.

All that said, a lot of parishes have some very friendly people with a special gift for talking to newcomers. Sometimes they are greeters or stand near the candles. If someone says hi to you, it's likely fine to ask a question.

 

[Nick1000]

I'm not sure how universal (or not) it may be, and I don't really watch what other folks are doing - but they generally do about the same as I am doing (or I do about the same as them).

I cross myself on entering. There is an icon and usually the Gospel (if you arrive after part of Orthros is past) right inside the door, so I pause first and gather my thoughts, pray, and venerate that icon and the Gospel. (Usually it's Christ unless it's a feast day.) Then I go to the other two main icons (Theotokos and Christ, and the Annunciation) and pray, then get a candle (sometimes more) and pray before lighting it, always crossing myself. If I have any business with anyone or anything I take care of that, then enter the Church and cross myself. BTW, on our parish we do not walk up the center but walk around to the outside to go up the aisle. And we don't really chit-chat in the Narthex before Church.

Best thing is to hang back and watch someone if you want to blend in a bit. But there can be variations (some people do prostrations). And some of these will be different in various jurisdictions (my parish is Greek).

Very good. Thank you indeed.

 

[Nick1000]

I don't think you need to worry excessively.

But my parish is OCA, which means Russian-style. Just for the sake of comparison:

I cross myself on entering the building itself. Get candles and say hi. Our Narthex is a little more social, but not too much so before a service. Generally, it seems ok to say hi in the Narthex, but once people are in the nave, the main part of the church between the narthex and sanctuary, they're there to pray.

Candles in hand, I usually go venerate the festal icon and then venerate the other icons and light my candles and say prayers.

I cross myself if I have to exit or re-enter the nave.

And most people in our parish cross themselves when crossing over the center line in the nave - i.e. - where the altar is.

All that said, a lot of parishes have some very friendly people with a special gift for talking to newcomers. Sometimes they are greeters or stand near the candles. If someone says hi to you, it's likely fine to ask a question.

Very helpful. Thank you.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Very good. Thank you indeed.

You are most welcome if it could help. I noticed I forgot to say what else was mentioned - we also cross ourselves when we walk across the center of the Church such that we pass in front of the altar. Even when driving by on the street.