Baptism and communion

Doug Brents

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2021
1,124
234
51
Atlanta, GA
✟24,727.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Nope.

The Pharisee was not astonished that Jesus didn't take a bath (baptizo), he was astonished that he did not ceremonially 'wash' his hands via non-immersion. (Luke 11:38). The disciples were not criticized were for taking a bath (baptizo) after returning from the Market, they were criticized for not ceremonially 'washing" their hands via non-immmersion. Mark 7:4

Baptizo allows any method of washing.....immersion, pouring or sprinkling.
You have been the one who says that if baptizo means immersion then "wash" must mean a "bath". Nothing could be further from the truth. One can immerse their hands without immersing their whole body. One can immerse a cup or bowl without taking a "bath". The ceremonial hand washing was similar to the catholic practice of dipping their hand in "holy water" (whatever that is supposed to be). The practice was to dip (immerse) their hands in a bowl of water, thus ceremonially washing them.
 
Upvote 0

Ain't Zwinglian

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2020
812
456
Oregon
✟111,000.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You have been the one who says that if baptizo means immersion then "wash" must mean a "bath".
Really? So Paul was immersed in a standing position in the house of Judas correct?

Now these stupid word games start.
 
Upvote 0

Doug Brents

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2021
1,124
234
51
Atlanta, GA
✟24,727.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Really? So Paul was immersed in a standing position in the house of Judas correct?

Now these stupid word games start.
What stupid word games? No, Paul was not immersed in a standing position in Judas' house. That is your nonsensical conclusion. Paul stood up, went outside to whatever body of water was nearest, went down into the water (like the Eunuch did in Acts 8) and was baptized. Then he came up out of the water, went back to the house and ate some food.
 
Upvote 0

Ain't Zwinglian

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2020
812
456
Oregon
✟111,000.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Paul stood up, went outside to whatever body of water was nearest, went down into the water
Where does the text say this. Eisogetical babble.

Anyway, I have enough material from you. I took alot of screenshots of your comments. I may at a later date teach a Bible class on this subject matter with you being representative of a immersionist.

I have nothing more here.
 
Upvote 0

Doug Brents

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2021
1,124
234
51
Atlanta, GA
✟24,727.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Where does the text say this. Eisogetical babble.

Anyway, I have enough material from you. I took alot of screenshots of your comments. I may at a later date teach a Bible class on this subject matter with you being representative of a immersionist.

I have nothing more here.
No, the text does not say that, because it is totally inconsequential to the salvation of Paul or of anyone living today. But your psychobabble about him being baptized while standing in the house is preposterous.
 
Upvote 0

Dan Perez

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
2,946
283
87
Arcadia
✟200,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What stupid word games? No, Paul was not immersed in a standing position in Judas' house. That is your nonsensical conclusion. Paul stood up, went outside to whatever body of water was nearest, went down into the water (like the Eunuch did in Acts 8) and was baptized. Then he came up out of the water, went back to the house and ate some food.
And Acts 9:18 says that Paul , STOOD UP // ANISTEMI and was baptized ?

Was Paul IMMERSED , NO ?

More that likely was SPRINKLED // RHANTIZO .

There was no WATER BAPRISM until John was preaching WATER BAPTISM to Israel in John 1:31

dan p
 
Upvote 0

Doug Brents

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2021
1,124
234
51
Atlanta, GA
✟24,727.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And Acts 9:18 says that Paul , STOOD UP // ANISTEMI and was baptized ?

Was Paul IMMERSED , NO ?

More that likely was SPRINKLED // RHANTIZO .

There was no WATER BAPRISM until John was preaching WATER BAPTISM to Israel in John 1:31

dan p
Baptism (from Koinē Greek: βάπτισμα, romanized: váptisma, lit. 'immersion, dipping in water')
Concerning the origin of baptism, Christian theologians suggest that, although baptism was used by John the Baptist, baptism itself did not originate with Christians or, for that matter, with John. Jews practiced baptism as a traditional act of purification and the initiation of converts to Judaism long before the coming of the Messiah. The origins of baptism might be found in the book of Leviticus where the Levite priests were commanded to perform a symbolic cleansing in water before and after performing their priestly duties. Leviticus 16:4 tells us, “He is to put on the sacred linen tunic, with linen undergarments next to his body; he is to tie the linen sash around him and put on the linen turban. These are sacred garments; so he must bathe himself with water before he puts them on.” Scripture also states in Leviticus 16:23-24, "Then Aaron is to go into the Tent of Meeting and take off the linen garments he put on before he entered the Most Holy Place, and he is to leave them there. He shall bathe himself with water in a holy place and put on his regular garments. Then he shall come out and sacrifice the burnt offering for himself and the burnt offering for the people, to make atonement for himself and for the people.”

Although the act described in these Old Testament passages was not specifically called “baptism,” it does highlight how important and holy ceremonial (and practical) cleansing is to God. John’s “baptism of repentance” (Luke 3:3; Acts 19:4) followed this paradigm of cleansing, although the final cleansing from sin is only available through Christ, and John’s baptism was the foreshadowing of that. The significance of baptism as a New Testament ceremony is that, as believers in Jesus Christ, we are baptized into His death (Romans 6:3) and raised to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4 KJV). The Lord taught the significance of baptism to the extent that He Himself was baptized by John the Baptist at the start of His ministry (Mark 1:9).

Yes, Paul was immersed (baptized) between when he stood up and when he sat down again to eat. The Scripture does not say that he went out to where there was water and returned, but there typically was not a large pool of water in the home into which he could be immersed, so it is obvious that he went out to where one was, and was immersed.
 
Upvote 0

Dan Perez

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
2,946
283
87
Arcadia
✟200,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Baptism (from Koinē Greek: βάπτισμα, romanized: váptisma, lit. 'immersion, dipping in water')
Concerning the origin of baptism, Christian theologians suggest that, although baptism was used by John the Baptist, baptism itself did not originate with Christians or, for that matter, with John. Jews practiced baptism as a traditional act of purification and the initiation of converts to Judaism long before the coming of the Messiah. The origins of baptism might be found in the book of Leviticus where the Levite priests were commanded to perform a symbolic cleansing in water before and after performing their priestly duties. Leviticus 16:4 tells us, “He is to put on the sacred linen tunic, with linen undergarments next to his body; he is to tie the linen sash around him and put on the linen turban. These are sacred garments; so he must bathe himself with water before he puts them on.” Scripture also states in Leviticus 16:23-24, "Then Aaron is to go into the Tent of Meeting and take off the linen garments he put on before he entered the Most Holy Place, and he is to leave them there. He shall bathe himself with water in a holy place and put on his regular garments. Then he shall come out and sacrifice the burnt offering for himself and the burnt offering for the people, to make atonement for himself and for the people.”

Although the act described in these Old Testament passages was not specifically called “baptism,” it does highlight how important and holy ceremonial (and practical) cleansing is to God. John’s “baptism of repentance” (Luke 3:3; Acts 19:4) followed this paradigm of cleansing, although the final cleansing from sin is only available through Christ, and John’s baptism was the foreshadowing of that. The significance of baptism as a New Testament ceremony is that, as believers in Jesus Christ, we are baptized into His death (Romans 6:3) and raised to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4 KJV). The Lord taught the significance of baptism to the extent that He Himself was baptized by John the Baptist at the start of His ministry (Mark 1:9).

Yes, Paul was immersed (baptized) between when he stood up and when he sat down again to eat. The Scripture does not say that he went out to where there was water and returned, but there typically was not a large pool of water in the home into which he could be immersed, so it is obvious that he went out to where one was, and was immersed.
And why was Jesus than Water Baptized by John in Matt 3:15 if he had no sin ??

Gen 6:6 says why Christ REPENTED !!

And Acts 2:38 says why Israel had to REPENT ?

How many REPENTED ?? Not MANY !!

Israel NEVER repented and instead KILLED Christ as seen in Acts 2:36 and verse 37 they said , " What will we do ??


Peter in Acts 2:38 tells them what do DO and never did , DID THEY , NOOOOOOOand is Acts 28:25-28 were set ASIDE and Paul went to preach to the Gentiles !!

dan p
 
Upvote 0

Doug Brents

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2021
1,124
234
51
Atlanta, GA
✟24,727.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And why was Jesus than Water Baptized by John in Matt 3:15 if he had no sin ??
Firstly to fulfill all righteousness (Matt 3:15).
But also as a form of foreshadowing NT baptism, and as an example for all of His disciples (including us today).
Gen 6:6 says why Christ REPENTED !!
And Acts 2:38 says why Israel had to REPENT ?
How many REPENTED ?? Not MANY !!
3000 on that day alone. And daily more were coming to repent and be baptized into Christ. As a percentage of the total of Jews in the world, that is not a significant number. But as a percentage of those already in the Church (120), it was a growth of 2500%. That is a hugely significant growth.
Israel NEVER repented and instead KILLED Christ as seen in Acts 2:36 and verse 37 they said , " What will we do ??
Israel as a nation, but individuals did repent, including leaders of synagogues, Pharisees, and other leaders of the nation.
Peter in Acts 2:38 tells them what do DO and never did , DID THEY , NOOOOOOOand is Acts 28:25-28 were set ASIDE and Paul went to preach to the Gentiles !!
Acts 28:25-28 may have been the last time that Paul preached in a Synagogue, but his comment does not mean that individual Jews cannot come to Christ and be saved. It means that the control, leadership, and primary membership of the Church is no longer Jewish, but Gentile. And that Paul would no longer focus on Jews first, but would focus on Gentiles.
 
Upvote 0

Dan Perez

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
2,946
283
87
Arcadia
✟200,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Firstly to fulfill all righteousness (Matt 3:15).
But also as a form of foreshadowing NT baptism, and as an example for all of His disciples (including us today).

3000 on that day alone. And daily more were coming to repent and be baptized into Christ. As a percentage of the total of Jews in the world, that is not a significant number. But as a percentage of those already in the Church (120), it was a growth of 2500%. That is a hugely significant growth.

Israel as a nation, but individuals did repent, including leaders of synagogues, Pharisees, and other leaders of the nation.

Acts 28:25-28 may have been the last time that Paul preached in a Synagogue, but his comment does not mean that individual Jews cannot come to Christ and be saved. It means that the control, leadership, and primary membership of the Church is no longer Jewish, but Gentile. And that Paul would no longer focus on Jews first, but would focus on Gentiles.
And that happened about 2000 years ago !!

How are Jews saved today with a verse , your thoughts ??


dan p
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Doug Brents

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2021
1,124
234
51
Atlanta, GA
✟24,727.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And that happened about 2000 years ago !!

How are Jews saved today with a verse , your thoughts ??


dan p
Today there is no difference, spiritually, between Jews and Gentiles; we are all saved in exactly the same way. Jews, like Gentiles, are saved today through hearing the Gospel, believing it, and obeying it through repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism. This puts a person "in Christ", and begins a life of continual repentance, striving to remain in the Light, and spreading the good news that we have accepted to others around us.
 
Upvote 0

Dan Perez

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
2,946
283
87
Arcadia
✟200,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Today there is no difference, spiritually, between Jews and Gentiles; we are all saved in exactly the same way. Jews, like Gentiles, are saved today through hearing the Gospel, believing it, and obeying it through repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism. This puts a person "in Christ", and begins a life of continual repentance, striving to remain in the Light, and spreading the good news that we have accepted to others around us.
# 1 Today Jews can be saved as Gentiles and be PLACED into the Body of Christ , and do you agree ?

# 2 2 Cor 3 , I believe says so !!

# 3 Do you then have a verse that says there is no difference between the TWO ?

dan p
 
Upvote 0

Doug Brents

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2021
1,124
234
51
Atlanta, GA
✟24,727.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
# 1 Today Jews can be saved as Gentiles and be PLACED into the Body of Christ , and do you agree ?
Jews and Gentiles both can be saved and enter into the Body of Christ. Neither Jew nor Gentile are born a part of the Body of Christ. They only become part of the Body of Christ when they are saved.
# 2 2 Cor 3 , I believe says so !!
2 Cor 3 does tell us that in Christ the veil is lifted from the hearts of the Jews, and that same veil is in place over the hearts of Gentiles and is also removed from them only in Christ.
# 3 Do you then have a verse that says there is no difference between the TWO ?
I found three:
Gal 3:28 - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Col 3:9-11 - "Do not lie to one another, since you stripped off the old self with its evil practices, 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created it— 11 a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, and free, but Christ is all, and in all."
Rom 10:12 - "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him"

Are there still male and female? Yes, so these passages are not saying that there is no longer any Jews as a biological family line. They are saying that there is no distinction between the two in Christ. Both are saved the same way. Both become united in Christ as one Body.
 
Upvote 0

ralliann

christian
Jun 27, 2007
6,276
1,751
✟206,074.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
# 1 Today Jews can be saved as Gentiles and be PLACED into the Body of Christ , and do you agree ?

# 2 2 Cor 3 , I believe says so !!

# 3 Do you then have a verse that says there is no difference between the TWO ?

dan p
Ac 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Ro 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Ro 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
 
Upvote 0

Dan Perez

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
2,946
283
87
Arcadia
✟200,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ac 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Ro 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Ro 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Dan Perez

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
2,946
283
87
Arcadia
✟200,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I says that Col 3:11 reads , Where there CANNOT be be Greek and Jew , Circumcision and UNCIRCUSION , Foreigner , Scythian , Slave nor Free , but Christ is the all things and in All .

And Gal 3:28 is similar , There CANNOT //OV is a Disjuncitive Particle negative , and means there can NEVERRRRRRRR EVER be Jew and Gentiles in the BODY OF CHRIST , because we ARE // ESTE in the B O C , and are his Eyes , Feet , sense of Smell and of Hearing , 1 Cor 12:15-17 .

And neither are we the Bride of Christ !!

dan p
 
Upvote 0

Doug Brents

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2021
1,124
234
51
Atlanta, GA
✟24,727.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I says that Col 3:11 reads , Where there CANNOT be be Greek and Jew , Circumcision and UNCIRCUSION , Foreigner , Scythian , Slave nor Free , but Christ is the all things and in All .

And Gal 3:28 is similar , There CANNOT //OV is a Disjuncitive Particle negative , and means there can NEVERRRRRRRR EVER be Jew and Gentiles in the BODY OF CHRIST , because we ARE // ESTE in the B O C , and are his Eyes , Feet , sense of Smell and of Hearing , 1 Cor 12:15-17 .

And neither are we the Bride of Christ !!
Col 3:11 says nothing about "CANNOT". It says there "IS NOT" any distinction any more.
Gal 3:28 means that within the Body of Christ (aka: Bride of Christ), there is no distinction, no separation, no difference between Jew and Gentile, slave and free, etc.; all are equal and on the same footing.
All who are in Christ are the Body and Bride of Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Dan Perez

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
2,946
283
87
Arcadia
✟200,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Col 3:11 says nothing about "CANNOT". It says there "IS NOT" any distinction any more.
Gal 3:28 means that within the Body of Christ (aka: Bride of Christ), there is no distinction, no separation, no difference between Jew and Gentile, slave and free, etc.; all are equal and on the same footing.
All who are in Christ are the Body and Bride of Christ.
ANYONE that checks the Greek text will see the words , Lest , Not , Cannot , No , Neither are all DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVES .

In Gal 3:28 it is NEITHER // OV

There are at least 3 DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVES IN THE New Testament , and they v are Mn , UN , OV

And what the words NEITHER , C ANNOT , LEST , NO , just means it can NEVER HAPPEN .

Why not check BLUE LETTER BIBLE or BIBLE HUB and see what the Greek Text really means .

And by the way Paul NEVER calls us the Bride of Christ WHY , because we are a NEW Creation in Christ And are Christs , EYES , his HEARING , His SENSE of Smelling .

Paul never calls the BODY OIF CHRIST Sheep as we are NEW CREATION in Christ >

dan p
 
Upvote 0

mikeforjesus

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2004
4,082
285
37
✟590,723.00
Faith
Christian
I got baptised today in a church which only follows the bible.The bible says the natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit as they are spiritually discerned. And we compare spiritual with spiritual. If I have not yet received the Holy Spirit before I should notice some changes I know I did not have before either in my spirit to assure me or to understand scripture on my own or receive a word from God when read scripture that others are not able. I do not yet notice any huge changes but have not yet read scripture but if others can do it means they have Holy Spirit too. I did feel a bit calmer after baptism but I cant tell yet if that is from the baptism or from having achieved my goal to be a placebo affect. Time will tell if there is difference.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Doug Brents

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2021
1,124
234
51
Atlanta, GA
✟24,727.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
ANYONE that checks the Greek text will see the words , Lest , Not , Cannot , No , Neither are all DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVES .

In Gal 3:28 it is NEITHER // OV

There are at least 3 DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVES IN THE New Testament , and they v are Mn , UN , OV

And what the words NEITHER , C ANNOT , LEST , NO , just means it can NEVER HAPPEN .

Why not check BLUE LETTER BIBLE or BIBLE HUB and see what the Greek Text really means .

And by the way Paul NEVER calls us the Bride of Christ WHY , because we are a NEW Creation in Christ And are Christs , EYES , his HEARING , His SENSE of Smelling .

Paul never calls the BODY OIF CHRIST Sheep as we are NEW CREATION in Christ >

dan p
I am not sure what version/translation of the Bible you are reading, but NEITHER does not mean "can never happen". The word is, "used before the first of two (or occasionally more) alternatives that are being specified (the others being introduced by “nor”) to indicate that they are each untrue or each do not happen." In the Church there is neither Jew nor Gentile, because both Jew and Gentile are equal, and the biological ancestry of a person is meaningless to the Gospel of Christ.

Rom 7 is very clear that we (the heirs of Abraham) were "married" to the Law, but through Christ have died to the Law so that we could be married to another, even Christ. The language is very much that of marriage, making us the "bride of Christ" instead of the bride of the Law to which we have died. Further, Eph 5:25-27 says that husbands are to love their wife as Christ loved the Church (His bride) and gave Himself for her. And again in 2 Cor 11:2 Paul says that he raised up the Church in Corinth so that he could present them to Christ to be His bride. And then in Rev 19:7 we are told that the bride of Christ (the Church) has been made ready for Him. The Church most certainly is the bride awaiting our Lord's return to take us to His home, just as Jesus said in John 14:1-3.
 
Upvote 0